Chin up Scott, there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel

 

My PAR 3rd gear failed again and I followed Pavlo's route with PPG 3rd/4th and H gear replacement. Hope to have it back on the road in the next couple of days after 8 weeks driving a 950cc Fiesta !!!!
I don't blame Mark at all, I believe he was totally shafted/let down by manufacturer who seem to make rubbish gearsets, judging by the number of failures over here - maybe its the climate
Is it right that the gearbox built by PAR for someone in the UK has also failed ??
Stan
PS 1st/2nd Billet selector forks are £230 - I didn't buy one !

 

PPG 1-2 / PAR 3-4 and STi RA 5th is now together, and has been testdriven - works very nicely indeed.

The only concern is that I'm starting to *HATE* working with Impreza gearboxes, I definitely need to up my prices if it's going to be worth this hassle...this car had been standing for quite some time, and the feckin clutch disc had decided to stay attached to the flywheel...

Not checking the clutch/flywheel before refitting the rebuilt gearbox was a Bad Idea (tm) looking at it now. Nothing we did could get it to come loose...so I had to take the box out again...

Ar$e.

/J

 

Hi Scott,

I too have an RB5. I had a full TSL engine build with steel rods forged pistons and an STI 9 crank.
Needles to say thay that the extra power resulted in two broken gearboxes in the same month. I have since had an STI 8, 6 speed conversion.

The whole thing cost me just under £2500 that was including the box, fitting by roger clark motorsport, linkage and propshaft.

The RB5 has never felt so good.

I would suggest this above all else mate.

As for the PAR built box that failed for a UK customer that was on Dave Mould's P1 that TSL built (450bhp by the way) that stripped 4th. he had a ride out in mine after the 6 speed was done and guess what???
He now has a six speed in lol.

Like i said go for the 6 speed i promise you will NEVER look back

 

You may look back with a six speed..

They arent everyones cup of tea.

David

 

Agree David, particularly on even a slightly torquey motor, the ratios can be a pain in the ***, way too short 1-4. I was doing 4 gearchanges within 8 seconds from launch in the wet, and that with only 400 lbft.

 

**** me £2500, wow might consider selling mine at that price.

I, like John and David, do 4 gearchanges in 8 seconds with the 6 speed. Sometimes i hate the 6 speed (number of changes ) other times i like it (strength).

Scott, from what i have seen of your driving at Elvington, you treat your car the same as me , in your shoes i would probably go for the ppg replacement parts.

Steven

 

4 gearchanges in 8 seconds??? thats about 4 seconds added to your time without fluffing any gearchanges Autobox required

 

I really hope it doesn't take you a whole second to change gear!

 

The 5 speed guys still have to do 3 shifts in that time. The total time taken to shift is only added to your travel time if you come to a complete stop to shift anyway

 

Good point Andy, Paul never timed it but how long do you reckon from starting to push the clutch to lifting foot off after gear lever in correct position, got to be at least a second ???

 

If I am cruising around town then yes a second or so to change gear. If I am drag racing it takes about 0.2-0.25 seconds (from datalogs). If you listen the videos of David wallis, Andy Forrest, Gulli or myself from TOTB you will hear the gearchanges seem almost instantaneous.

Paul

 

1-2 and 3-4 take around 0.25 as mentioned. I find the 2-3 or 4-5 can take 0.35-0.4 secs, even with the dog box.

Andy

 

My 2-3 change is surprisingly nice, I tend to do it quicker than 1-2, perhaps because I am more ready for it, I also find I beat the box on the 3-4 change, and it feels a little more notchy than the rest.

Paul

 

Can't believe my eyes!!!, I can't believe that drivers of one of the cars based on one of the the world's finest rally cars are moaning about how many gear changes they have to do on a six speed box. Who cares? Its stronger, more reliable and, as proven by the title of this post, probably the only sensible option for big power cars not wanting to go for a Dog box I fall into that category as its my everyday car too.

It's given my car far much more driveability for the power it has too.

Group buy on a Volvo estate Automatic for some of you Me thinks!!!! Hey they might even throw in some pipe and slippers for free.

 

Think you've misunderstood the problem dazdavies. Have you lived with a Subaru classic shape with a six speed, a bigger capacity motor that maybe only revs to 7 to 7.5K and >400 lbft across a fairly wide power band? It makes an RA feel tame. Nothing to do with pipe and slippers, all to do with gearing that is too short for a torquey motor, changing gear every two seconds is manic, wastes time if you have mechanical sympathy. The gearing is suited to a torqueless high revving car, or a relatively standard car, or just a boggo STi. That is why my quarter times are slow, I just can't bring myself to do what is required to the gearbox, given what it cost me I went quicker with the five speed, I've measured it. P20SPD found the same I believe. I know I would go far quicker with an autobox - not a slushomatic like you are thinking of the Volvo.

 

I have exactly that.

An RB5 running a Garret IHI GT35 @ 1.85bar sti cams Carillo rods, JE pistons, sti 9 Crank, six speed box, Motec m800, the list goes on.

YesI'm just over the 400fl.lb torque mark.

I love the car and its driveability.

But this isnt a drag car that needs the fastest change possible. It a high power everyday motor with reliability that I adore.

All I am saying is I have tried many options and this was my prefered choice.

I guess it all come down to personal preference

 

What is your red line and capacity? If it is 8000 RPM and 2.0 I can quite see where you are coming from. A 2.5 with 7000 RPM red line is a different kettle of fish and way too manic for my tastes. I ended up with 45 rather than 40 profile tyres and a raised rev limit to improve it and now it is just acceptable.

 

I have said to close friends, and probably on here in fact, that i have seriously considered changing back to the 5 speed, but it would cost me money to do so, money which would be better chanelled elsewhere on the car.

The only options i would considered is the full PPG kit or a dog box like andy f, and thats only because the car is now a toy and no longer the daily grinder.

The 2.5's produce their torque far differently from that of the 2 litre. Trust me the first 4 gear changes go like stink, even in every day driving. Having driven 8000 miles in approx 3 months of driving, i think that counts as a daily driver, i think John has done probably in excess of 15000 now with his 6 speed and 2.5. The 2.5's, which Scott has (incidentally he now has a UK300), are a different animal altogether IMO.

As for abuse, the 6 speeds really take it, at TOTB3 when i was getting peed off with launching poorly, i lost my temper and held it bouncing off the rpm limiter at 7250/7500 and just dumped the paddle clutch. Did this a few times, and it still stands up.

had more to say, but forgotten now!

 

yeah its a 2.0L with 0.5 oversize pistons and 1.6mm headgaskets.

Goes to just short of 8k but hate doing it. No need to most of the time. As for my tyres they are 35 profile 18's on the ultralite A-tech wheels. But like i say its a road car. The real toy is the bike !!!!!

 

Yep, 6 speed is definately not for me, may just stick a STI5 box in for now. I can't stomach spending another 2+grand on a gearbox rebuild but when i do, 70mph in 2nd, 100mph in 3rd i like that gearing

 

Scott, one of the things i miss most about the 5 speed is 3rd gear, it was excellent fun.

 

Pavlo Paul if you are around, what sort of mileage are you putting on the PPG gearset ? It will be interesting to see how it copes with 2.5 torque over a decent mileage.

Steven, if I fit the 3.9 diffs to my dog box it will do 118 at 7.5k in 3rd

Andy

 

Not sure of the mileage, only about 3000 miles so far, and 3 drag days with about 6 runs each.

Paul

 

Andy, that sounds excellent

Can i ask how much it cost for your dog box?

 

Scott, an STI5 box isnt strong enough.. IMHO.

theres a uk 6spd on 22b.

David

 

You can fit four or five STi 5 boxes for the cost of a six speed conversion.
Why make four gear shifts to get to where you can with three when you have a powerful motor.
For calculations I reckon an average of a third of a second per shift.
Remember there is also likely to be a turbo lag component.

PAR gearsets. Some "pundits/experts" tried to make me out as a pariah a year ago when I simply highlighted the facts to the benefit of the community. Some were clearly unaware of or not prepared to believe the truth.

 

I dont think you can Harvey. If you said £500 for a gearbox, add fitting of say £200, gearbox oil of £75, then thats £775.

Uk 6 speeds should be available for £1500 including prop and linkage, and for a uk car, nothing else is need. So roughly £1800 incl fitting and oil.

i make that out to be roughly 2 five speeds to the cost of 1 six speed.

Either i have mis read the going rate for 2nd hand 5 speeds or 6 speeds, or it just doesnt compute

If doing the fitting yourself, ie no labour cost, then its a slightly diffferent story, although i dont like changing gearboxes.

steven

 

Six speed conversion has been reported on here at £2000 to £2500. While I am happy to change my own gearbox I would want the assistance and facilities of John Pye for the six speed and they are heavy as you know Even heavier when you are on your back. I know Big bollocks and all that.
STi 6 box £500 for a good one. Own labour. B.T.W. J.Pye will do a box on a same day basis, in and out £150 including oil. They have it off by pat and it is actually 2 1/2 hrs work and that might include a tea break.
I suppose it depends if you can do it yourself. Even if you cannot it is still 3:1. Let's compromise

 

Where have you been looking? Cheapest i can find them is 2k