Tuning A MY98, Is 300bhp A Reality On A Budget?
07 November 2004, 08:28 PM
#91
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I use the same one as in the pic from DR motorsport, excellent value at just over £100 painted IIRC. Scoops in enough air for 556 bhp on a tmic 
(disclaimer - using octane booster 
)
(disclaimer - using octane booster )
07 November 2004, 10:09 PM
#93
Originally Posted by WallacePerformance
Hi Russell 
I'll just point out what I wrote in bold
Carl, I think that your torque level could be gained a lot more at the low end by using an Apexi AVCR (as I'm sure AndyF will agree with me) as these units can hold the pressure away from the actuator until the last second (>90% Duty cycle) achieving a faster spool on the turbo.
This will give a larger Integral between the two curves ie more torque.
Gavin
I'll just point out what I wrote in bold
Carl, I think that your torque level could be gained a lot more at the low end by using an Apexi AVCR (as I'm sure AndyF will agree with me) as these units can hold the pressure away from the actuator until the last second (>90% Duty cycle) achieving a faster spool on the turbo.
This will give a larger Integral between the two curves ie more torque.
Gavin
I do agree though, that this will make the car more driveable.this is what we want after all! finished a car from Ireland last trip (did it whilst over there for a wedding!) and he got 329 from his MY98 with a LINK ECU (mapped by someone very near this computer
) and he used STi8 TMIC, 440's at 3.2 bar static fuel pressure and a TD05 converted to front entry and we ran 1.4 bar.It was mapped, I might add, using optimax and octane booster.
Russell (still hate LINK's idling issues, took me over 2 hours to get it idling properly)
Last edited by WUZ; 07 November 2004 at 10:13 PM.
07 November 2004, 10:28 PM
#94
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Graham/Danny, i have been in touch with Derek at ETS (who makes the taller OEM looking scoop shown above for DRM) and he isn't up for doing a group buy after a bad experience with his last one. 
Away to email Dave Reid about a GB on the same scoop, see if we can save some pennies.
Lol, i'm seeing a pattern emerging here - i can see you tweaking for OB as well in the new year Andy. 
Russ, that's a good result. I'm not keen on going for the STi8 TM just yet but will be chucking every other aid on to get the charge temps down along with porting the headers. Now just to find a sensibly priced charge temp gauge...
Away to email Dave Reid about a GB on the same scoop, see if we can save some pennies.
(disclaimer - using octane booster )
)
Russ, that's a good result.
I'm not keen on going for the STi8 TM just yet but will be chucking every other aid on to get the charge temps down along with porting the headers. Now just to find a sensibly priced charge temp gauge...
You should have seen over 400bhp with that set up
08 November 2004, 07:23 AM
#96
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do'es having a larger skoop help bhp ? also what about water spray for the tmic?
Andy how many bottle's of octane booster do you use when doing a rolling road day? 1 per full tank?
Carl very helpful thread m8 well done
Andy how many bottle's of octane booster do you use when doing a rolling road day? 1 per full tank?
Carl very helpful thread m8 well done
08 November 2004, 11:17 AM
#99
\m/ ^_^ \m/
Carl, filter shield worked a treat on my car, have a look in my thread for a basic idea on how it needs to look, took about half a day to get it spot on but i now have a cold air filter after a hard run, you can feel the temp difference just by touching the bonnet
corner!
08 November 2004, 12:46 PM
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Carl,
Glad to hear the Commander came in useful after all. Can appreciate your slightly disappointed with the figures though. Saying that at least you're a lot happier with the way the car drives. Had you not been on the RR I bet you would have still been very happy?
I'm in with Andy on the 11th and subsequent RR on the 26.11 so it will be interesting to compare figures from the RR in June which produced 297 bhp (UK spec). I've had no choice but to use OB since the turbo change and previously saw no activity at 1.3 bar. Changed the exhaust and OEM airbox and now see the odd red light so I'm hoping this can be eliminated. In the meantime I ensure I only run 1.2 bar.
I've got a mini scoop already although the blanking plate is still on for now. Feel I must see 300 bhp plus from the exhaust and air filter change (as well as the forthcoming map) but now I'm not too sure. An increase in the torque would be nice too....................................
Glad to hear the Commander came in useful after all. Can appreciate your slightly disappointed with the figures though. Saying that at least you're a lot happier with the way the car drives. Had you not been on the RR I bet you would have still been very happy?
I'm in with Andy on the 11th and subsequent RR on the 26.11 so it will be interesting to compare figures from the RR in June which produced 297 bhp (UK spec). I've had no choice but to use OB since the turbo change and previously saw no activity at 1.3 bar. Changed the exhaust and OEM airbox and now see the odd red light so I'm hoping this can be eliminated. In the meantime I ensure I only run 1.2 bar.
I've got a mini scoop already although the blanking plate is still on for now. Feel I must see 300 bhp plus from the exhaust and air filter change (as well as the forthcoming map) but now I'm not too sure. An increase in the torque would be nice too....................................
08 November 2004, 03:41 PM
#103
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I emailed DR Motorsport about that scoop (intercooler) last week, not regarding a group but to see if he offers it in carbon fibre - not had reply yet.
Either way I am up for the group buy.
Either way I am up for the group buy.
08 November 2004, 09:35 PM
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09 November 2004, 07:04 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by Carl Davey
Grant, did you get hold of Andy?
How's the car doing now??
10 November 2004, 12:10 PM
#106
Originally Posted by WUZ
Gav, the torque will not increase, it will only be produced lower down! Carl wants more torque, not the same torque but a little sooner! it just means the torque will last alittle longer than before but will be dropping to the same level at the crossover point (5252rpm)
I do agree though, that this will make the car more driveable.this is what we want after all! finished a car from Ireland last trip (did it whilst over there for a wedding!) and he got 329 from his MY98 with a LINK ECU (mapped by someone very near this computer) and he used STi8 TMIC, 440's at 3.2 bar static fuel pressure and a TD05 converted to front entry and we ran 1.4 bar.
It was mapped, I might add, using optimax and octane booster.
Russell (still hate LINK's idling issues, took me over 2 hours to get it idling properly)
I do agree though, that this will make the car more driveable.this is what we want after all! finished a car from Ireland last trip (did it whilst over there for a wedding!) and he got 329 from his MY98 with a LINK ECU (mapped by someone very near this computer
) and he used STi8 TMIC, 440's at 3.2 bar static fuel pressure and a TD05 converted to front entry and we ran 1.4 bar.It was mapped, I might add, using optimax and octane booster.
Russell (still hate LINK's idling issues, took me over 2 hours to get it idling properly)
If you are only getting your target boost of 17psi at say 4500 on the rollers, you may well find an increase in torque by getting the same 17psi to come in at say 3500. This is what at least what I would expect on a TD05 equiped car. You may also find that running standard Apexi boost control that the boost gets close to target quite soon, but lags by a few psi until about 5000rpm where it starts to get much closer.
Logging the boost during the RR run would reveal alot about the setup, and show up whether it was a mapping issue (fuel/ignition related) or a boost control issue.
Paul
10 November 2004, 12:13 PM
#107
Originally Posted by Houghton
Hi Carl,
The AVC-R is just like the Hand Commander, a very useful non-essential IMHO it comes with a 3 port boost control solenoid which, on mine, uses 2 ports, the third is open to atmosphere.
The AVC-R is just like the Hand Commander, a very useful non-essential IMHO it comes with a 3 port boost control solenoid which, on mine, uses 2 ports, the third is open to atmosphere.
Paul
10 November 2004, 12:14 PM
#108
Surely if the fueling/advance at 3500 is the same as the fuelling/advance at 4500, then the torque would be the same because the same amount of air (boost pressure assuming consistent charge temp) is the same?
Russell - only asking as you have placed the nugget of doubt in my brain and I am happy to be corrected in the pursuit of giving my customers and myself the correct info!
Russell - only asking as you have placed the nugget of doubt in my brain and I am happy to be corrected in the pursuit of giving my customers and myself the correct info!
10 November 2004, 01:01 PM
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Optimum advance will not likely be the same at 3500 and 4500 RPM. VE will be different as well. Turbo may be in a higher or lower efficiency band at 3500 or 4500 depending on boost and matching to the engine. Restrictive pressure drops will be less at 3500 than 4500 RPM most likely. Lots of variables.
10 November 2004, 02:47 PM
#111
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It is very difficult to get the boost profile on the rollers to match the profile on the road. This is not so much due to the run up speed but more the way the load is applied on a rolling road.
Regardless of your power output, using the std run procedure (not inertia run) the rollers will accelerate at a fixed rate, what this means is that as the engine is coming on boost it is increasing in rpm quicker than it would be capable of doing on the road, then when it hits full boost, it is held back to a lower acceleration rate than it would be on the road.
What this means is that you do not get a fully representative result, it also goes some way to explain why someone can notice a massive performance improvement on the road. Quote Carl ... "In all honesty, the more i drive it the more it scares the crap out of me......... I just can't believe what is essentially a turbo and a remap can have made such a differance........it just pulls so much stronger on the whole" ..... but then see less than 20bhp improvement in actual numbers on the rollers.
It is possible map a car on the rollers to produce a much higher bhp number but this wouldn't necessarily mean it was any quicker on the road.
Andy
Regardless of your power output, using the std run procedure (not inertia run) the rollers will accelerate at a fixed rate, what this means is that as the engine is coming on boost it is increasing in rpm quicker than it would be capable of doing on the road, then when it hits full boost, it is held back to a lower acceleration rate than it would be on the road.
What this means is that you do not get a fully representative result, it also goes some way to explain why someone can notice a massive performance improvement on the road. Quote Carl ... "In all honesty, the more i drive it the more it scares the crap out of me......... I just can't believe what is essentially a turbo and a remap can have made such a differance........it just pulls so much stronger on the whole" ..... but then see less than 20bhp improvement in actual numbers on the rollers.
It is possible map a car on the rollers to produce a much higher bhp number but this wouldn't necessarily mean it was any quicker on the road.
Andy
Last edited by Andy.F; 10 November 2004 at 02:55 PM.
14 November 2004, 06:28 PM
#112
Nice thread! and all credit due to its content and your determination.
Makes me feel content with my UK running 297bhp and 270torque on a summers day, optimax only. Was thinking of uprading to a top mount, but after reading this, and some other posts. Might just leave alone.
Makes me feel content with my UK running 297bhp and 270torque on a summers day, optimax only. Was thinking of uprading to a top mount, but after reading this, and some other posts. Might just leave alone.
14 November 2004, 09:02 PM
#113
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Rob, without running your car on the same rolling road on the same day with the same gearing then you really have no idea how it compares.
297 bhp on one set of rollers can be anywhere between 250 and 350 on another set
Andy
297 bhp on one set of rollers can be anywhere between 250 and 350 on another set
Andy
22 November 2004, 11:15 AM
#114
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Well Andy the RR session yesterday saw 291 bhp with over 280lb of torque. Although I'm down on the bhp figure from the last RR session back in June (and after reading your comments above which I fully appreciate) torque has increased from 230lb. The mid range punch is absoultely fantastic although some issues did come to light yesterday which will probably need to be resolved at some point.
I'll no doubt be in touch with you once I find out whats going on (and will hopefully have the fuel press reg and sti8 intercooler fitted that we discussed back on the 11.11)
I'll no doubt be in touch with you once I find out whats going on (and will hopefully have the fuel press reg and sti8 intercooler fitted that we discussed back on the 11.11)
02 December 2004, 10:40 PM
#115
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Just need...
Thermocouple
Lots of aluminium
Motivation to whip headers off and port them when it's -5 degrees outside...
Still enjoying how the car drives but got a fuel leak to investigate (tank not engine). The fact the cars is about 3" deep in crap and on manky 16's atm isn't helping motivation either. Working on an AVC-R also.
13 December 2004, 01:15 AM
#118
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Thank you Kev. 
Going to be a memorable one stuck in the middle of the North Sea on nightshift... Shall be making up for it when i get home though.
Going to be a memorable one stuck in the middle of the North Sea on nightshift...
Shall be making up for it when i get home though.
13 December 2004, 01:27 AM
#119
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Get on with your work ******
Have a good one when you get back and I have a small project waiting for you on your return (which you have free reign on).
I'll give you more details when your back
Have a good one when you get back
and I have a small project waiting for you on your return (which you have free reign on).I'll give you more details when your back
