Tuning A MY98, Is 300bhp A Reality On A Budget?
11 March 2005, 01:47 PM
#391
Carl, you and me both.(cooling a TMIC)
I am interested in adding weather proof fans to the top/underside to force cool the TMIC under low speed conditions, especially standstill, ie waiting to to get to the start line at a hill climb with the engine at full temperature.
Lagging the 'Y' pipes will keep the heat of the compressed air in the system. If anything, a pipe system with cooling fins, ie like a heat sink in modern electronics with the cold/wet air off the water sprayed TMIC might be better?
Even the 'Y' pipes painted matt black would help!
I think Pace/Mocal make fans for radiators. Getting an even flow across the inlet tank of the IC would be a task as the 'Y' piece is in the way of the centre of the IC matrix,
Fans on top may be a way to create a uniform distribution of air flow from the scoop in the bonnet.
Add the water spray on top of the fans to further atomise the water and this may be beneficial.
I feel a Project thread coming on!
Using an aftermarket Sti8 scoop would give the space to mount the fans. Thermostatic control would be nice, but I think the fans would need to run close to 100% of the time the engine runs after cold start is finished.
I can't help but feel that Banks/Wallis/Pavlo/Forrest etc have tried this before? Maybe they will comment.
Graham
I am interested in adding weather proof fans to the top/underside to force cool the TMIC under low speed conditions, especially standstill, ie waiting to to get to the start line at a hill climb with the engine at full temperature.
Lagging the 'Y' pipes will keep the heat of the compressed air in the system. If anything, a pipe system with cooling fins, ie like a heat sink in modern electronics with the cold/wet air off the water sprayed TMIC might be better?
Even the 'Y' pipes painted matt black would help!
I think Pace/Mocal make fans for radiators. Getting an even flow across the inlet tank of the IC would be a task as the 'Y' piece is in the way of the centre of the IC matrix,
Fans on top may be a way to create a uniform distribution of air flow from the scoop in the bonnet.
Add the water spray on top of the fans to further atomise the water and this may be beneficial.
I feel a Project thread coming on!
Using an aftermarket Sti8 scoop would give the space to mount the fans. Thermostatic control would be nice, but I think the fans would need to run close to 100% of the time the engine runs after cold start is finished.
I can't help but feel that Banks/Wallis/Pavlo/Forrest etc have tried this before? Maybe they will comment.
Graham
11 March 2005, 03:20 PM
#392
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quote: Carbon canister removed.
is this the thingy near the headlight with the 3 pipes out the top? what is it there for? what are the benifits of removing it? engine bay is nice and clean today courtisy of work and a can of pavan ;D
is this the thingy near the headlight with the 3 pipes out the top? what is it there for? what are the benifits of removing it? engine bay is nice and clean today courtisy of work and a can of pavan ;D
11 March 2005, 03:34 PM
#394
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Graham - iirc, AndyF runs twin fans under the 'double entry' tmic that he ran in TOTB last year.....
Carbon Canister is for emissions control of the fuel purge system - no real benefit to removing it, except I needed the space to mount the replacement PS reserviour.
see http://www.wildsworld.co.uk for car pics. though quite out of date I'm afraid - I'll get some more when its sunny (!?)
Mark
Carbon Canister is for emissions control of the fuel purge system - no real benefit to removing it, except I needed the space to mount the replacement PS reserviour.
see http://www.wildsworld.co.uk for car pics. though quite out of date I'm afraid - I'll get some more when its sunny (!?)
Mark
11 March 2005, 04:46 PM
#396
Mark:
Do you think this fan mod is worth the effort?
Apparently, MR2's have them as standard, and i well know that 911's have a neat fan assembly for the front mount oil cooler.(that is about the right size... )
Graham.
Do you think this fan mod is worth the effort?
Apparently, MR2's have them as standard, and i well know that 911's have a neat fan assembly for the front mount oil cooler.(that is about the right size...
)Graham.
11 March 2005, 05:47 PM
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I know that the MR2 has it - now you come to mention it - (I've had 2 of them...) - I used a PC fan. (largish one...)
I know that AndyF commented that it must work in terms of cool air when stopped - I'd had some problems (major) with underbonnet heat at the first mapping session - when I went for the second, I'd done the lagging, the fan, etc. Andy said he drove to the workshop and left the car running while he went to 'kit up' - when he came back, the 57i was still cold, normally would be hot.....
Certainly, I can tell the difference when opening the bonnet - Of course, I don't have any before/after figures, so its difficult to tell its 'actual' effect.
For the effort, I thought it was worth it - but I've no evidence of the effect when travelling at speed (maybe it is actually causing a flow issue), but I suspect that the air passes through the fan quite well at speed....
Mark
Mark96 - Thanks Mate
I know that AndyF commented that it must work in terms of cool air when stopped - I'd had some problems (major) with underbonnet heat at the first mapping session - when I went for the second, I'd done the lagging, the fan, etc. Andy said he drove to the workshop and left the car running while he went to 'kit up' - when he came back, the 57i was still cold, normally would be hot.....
Certainly, I can tell the difference when opening the bonnet - Of course, I don't have any before/after figures, so its difficult to tell its 'actual' effect.
For the effort, I thought it was worth it - but I've no evidence of the effect when travelling at speed (maybe it is actually causing a flow issue), but I suspect that the air passes through the fan quite well at speed....
Mark
Mark96 - Thanks Mate
11 March 2005, 06:51 PM
#399
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Busy day today....! Decided against to the head-manifold gaskets due to the time limitation today. They are top of the to-do list asap however.
Jets are a perfect fit.
Mounted duct.
This is what i have been battling against all day!
So time to get the AVC-R finished off. I took the feed for the pressure switch off here...
...and mounted it on the back of the Defi bost sender.
God knows how i managed to get all that lot through the bulkhead without breaking anything!
My ECU loom looking like a Halfords Odds 'n' Ends stand.
Kick plate back on and AVC-R loom tidied away.
All mounted!
So with that out of the way sorting some TMIC spray was the next priority. No 10mm - 5mm pipe adaptors in any Motor Factors in the Nort East of Scotland so i had to improvise...
Connected it all together but no water... Turned out the motor had siezed, not surprising considering is hasn't been used for over a year.
Everything plumbed in. Not alot of spray is clearing the duct so most of it is landing on the front half of the intercooler. Will need to work a solution to this in the future.
The rest of the afternoon was taken up with modifying the D/V port on the re-cored MY00 intercooler. Spent ages cleaning all the swarf out of it. Anyway, it started again although i moved it around the driveway and it's very lumpy.
Just off on a 15/20 mile round trip to collect the SIDC banner for the RR Day tomorrow. Hopefully it'll all hold together...
Jets are a perfect fit.
Mounted duct.
This is what i have been battling against all day!
So time to get the AVC-R finished off. I took the feed for the pressure switch off here...
...and mounted it on the back of the Defi bost sender.
God knows how i managed to get all that lot through the bulkhead without breaking anything!
My ECU loom looking like a Halfords Odds 'n' Ends stand.
Kick plate back on and AVC-R loom tidied away.
All mounted!
So with that out of the way sorting some TMIC spray was the next priority. No 10mm - 5mm pipe adaptors in any Motor Factors in the Nort East of Scotland so i had to improvise...
Connected it all together but no water... Turned out the motor had siezed, not surprising considering is hasn't been used for over a year.
Everything plumbed in. Not alot of spray is clearing the duct so most of it is landing on the front half of the intercooler. Will need to work a solution to this in the future.
The rest of the afternoon was taken up with modifying the D/V port on the re-cored MY00 intercooler. Spent ages cleaning all the swarf out of it. Anyway, it started again although i moved it around the driveway and it's very lumpy.
Just off on a 15/20 mile round trip to collect the SIDC banner for the RR Day tomorrow. Hopefully it'll all hold together...
11 March 2005, 08:22 PM
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Yeah that's the intention Mark. 4:30am start to get me to McDonalds at the Forth Road Bridge for 8am. Then over to Dastek where Andy will map it as time allows. 
It all held together for the wee jaunt over to Pitmedden, or appears to have done at least. Will need to find a bit of wood take with me to Dastek to hold onto tomorrow...
It all held together for the wee jaunt over to Pitmedden, or appears to have done at least. Will need to find a bit of wood take with me to Dastek to hold onto tomorrow...
11 March 2005, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark96ukTurbo
quote: Carbon canister removed.
is this the thingy near the headlight with the 3 pipes out the top? what is it there for? what are the benifits of removing it? engine bay is nice and clean today courtisy of work and a can of pavan ;D
is this the thingy near the headlight with the 3 pipes out the top? what is it there for? what are the benifits of removing it? engine bay is nice and clean today courtisy of work and a can of pavan ;D
11 March 2005, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 911
Carl, you and me both.(cooling a TMIC)
I am interested in adding weather proof fans to the top/underside to force cool the TMIC under low speed conditions, especially standstill, ie waiting to to get to the start line at a hill climb with the engine at full temperature.
Lagging the 'Y' pipes will keep the heat of the compressed air in the system. If anything, a pipe system with cooling fins, ie like a heat sink in modern electronics with the cold/wet air off the water sprayed TMIC might be better?
Even the 'Y' pipes painted matt black would help!
I think Pace/Mocal make fans for radiators. Getting an even flow across the inlet tank of the IC would be a task as the 'Y' piece is in the way of the centre of the IC matrix,
Fans on top may be a way to create a uniform distribution of air flow from the scoop in the bonnet.
Add the water spray on top of the fans to further atomise the water and this may be beneficial.
I feel a Project thread coming on!
Using an aftermarket Sti8 scoop would give the space to mount the fans. Thermostatic control would be nice, but I think the fans would need to run close to 100% of the time the engine runs after cold start is finished.
I can't help but feel that Banks/Wallis/Pavlo/Forrest etc have tried this before? Maybe they will comment.
Graham
I am interested in adding weather proof fans to the top/underside to force cool the TMIC under low speed conditions, especially standstill, ie waiting to to get to the start line at a hill climb with the engine at full temperature.
Lagging the 'Y' pipes will keep the heat of the compressed air in the system. If anything, a pipe system with cooling fins, ie like a heat sink in modern electronics with the cold/wet air off the water sprayed TMIC might be better?
Even the 'Y' pipes painted matt black would help!
I think Pace/Mocal make fans for radiators. Getting an even flow across the inlet tank of the IC would be a task as the 'Y' piece is in the way of the centre of the IC matrix,
Fans on top may be a way to create a uniform distribution of air flow from the scoop in the bonnet.
Add the water spray on top of the fans to further atomise the water and this may be beneficial.
I feel a Project thread coming on!
Using an aftermarket Sti8 scoop would give the space to mount the fans. Thermostatic control would be nice, but I think the fans would need to run close to 100% of the time the engine runs after cold start is finished.
I can't help but feel that Banks/Wallis/Pavlo/Forrest etc have tried this before? Maybe they will comment.
Graham
Floyd has insulated his heater matrix pipes which is an idea i like the sound of. Similarly he has shielded the side of his TMIC from the heat from the turbo.
Mark, i like the idea of mounting a fan in the inner wing. I have one cold air feed coming from the brake duct in my MY99 bumper. I'd like to fix the fan to the other hole in the inner wing draw more cold air into the shielded area.
There was also an idea banded around a little while ago about creating a sort of duct to provide a smooth path for air exiting the intercooler to flow down over the gearbox and under the car. Apparently GTi-R owners do this to great effect. The obvious problem is again the Y-piece etc.
I also want to focus again on the basics of ducting the air into my intercooler. The Zero Sports duct overhangs the IC by around 30mm each side, allowing air to flow down the sides of it. Something simple to stop this and direct it through the core would help in my opinion. I've also binned my tilt kit for the time being so there's scope for development there also.
Sorry, just having a wee brainstorming session. There's a tapped thread in the TMIC i have now so hopefully i'll be able to get my thermocouple installed in there and experiment.
11 March 2005, 09:06 PM
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I don't get the problem with the tmic ducting anymore - with the FMIC - this also used up the 'other' hole in the inner wing - so I have one for the pipework and one for the fan.
I did use the tilt 'kit' trick to raise the TMIC as well as tilt it, when I ran one - so that the rubber boot fitted closely (adjusted with scissors) to the I/C - this made sure that NO air could run around the I/C, as this would be its preferred, least resistance route - I actually think that this was a very worthwhile mod for a topmount, and, of course, cost nothing at all !
Carl, I mounted my AVC-R in the cubby hole in the middle (on top) of the dash, so its hidden when I'm not using it - Also, I used a PC keyboard extension lead (with a pin taken out and the middle 'slot' enlarged) to give a PFC access port in the glovebox - one end is plugged in the ECU, the other is fastened inside the glovebox - easy access for my HHC and whenever AndyF needs to do the biz !
Mark
I did use the tilt 'kit' trick to raise the TMIC as well as tilt it, when I ran one - so that the rubber boot fitted closely (adjusted with scissors) to the I/C - this made sure that NO air could run around the I/C, as this would be its preferred, least resistance route - I actually think that this was a very worthwhile mod for a topmount, and, of course, cost nothing at all !
Carl, I mounted my AVC-R in the cubby hole in the middle (on top) of the dash, so its hidden when I'm not using it - Also, I used a PC keyboard extension lead (with a pin taken out and the middle 'slot' enlarged) to give a PFC access port in the glovebox - one end is plugged in the ECU, the other is fastened inside the glovebox - easy access for my HHC and whenever AndyF needs to do the biz !
Mark
11 March 2005, 09:11 PM
#405
Nice one Carl...well documentated... 
Though just one thing, originally i was planning on mounting my AVcr where you have, untill i nearly knocked this woman over whislt looking down so moved it here...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v607/s...t=01-05_24.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v607/s...t=01-05_23.jpg
As it would seem over time i look and use the unit quite abit...
Anyway just a suggestion...
--Sam
Though just one thing, originally i was planning on mounting my AVcr where you have, untill i nearly knocked this woman over whislt looking down so moved it here...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v607/s...t=01-05_24.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v607/s...t=01-05_23.jpg
As it would seem over time i look and use the unit quite abit...
Anyway just a suggestion...
--Sam
11 March 2005, 09:34 PM
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Hey Mark, yeah, my STi IC with the tilt kit and cut shroud was a pretty neat fit. Hopefully i'll be able to recreate something along these lines with the re-cored MY00 unit. I love the idea of leaving a remote socket for the PFC. I'd need to look a little closer at how Andy plugs into the unit tomorrow as i dare say this won't be the final map.
I would've liked to have been able to hide the AVC-R but i have Defis in the top cubby. Sam, the Lambda didn't bother me too much when it was down there so i'll live with it for now, see how it goes. I think with the Commander and PFC it should be possible to monitor almost every engine parameter? I certainly like the AVC-R display in the dark, nice and easy to read.
Oh, and crystal headlights aren't a patch on the Morettes as far as lighting goes.
I would've liked to have been able to hide the AVC-R but i have Defis in the top cubby. Sam, the Lambda didn't bother me too much when it was down there so i'll live with it for now, see how it goes.
I think with the Commander and PFC it should be possible to monitor almost every engine parameter? I certainly like the AVC-R display in the dark, nice and easy to read. Oh, and crystal headlights aren't a patch on the Morettes as far as lighting goes.
12 March 2005, 07:33 PM
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299.1bhp / 274.2lb/ft
So it's got the numbers i set out for but work is far from over on the fridge just yet. Here's the graphs anyway...
Power
Torque
For comparison here's the graphs from attempt #1.
Power
Torque
So on paper i'm up 22.1bhp and most significantly 33.1bl/ft up in torque. I have two witnesses say they saw the dyno read 300.9bhp so i'm happy to quote the fridge as a 300bhp Impreza.
The mapping session went well once the AVC-R was wired in correctly. Schoolboy error on that one on my part (purple wire goes to rpm not IDC...
) but was quickly spotted and resolved by Andy. Once the car had boost control things went a little smoother. I have to say i personally felt more relaxed this time around and mapping on a smooth motorway surface sure beats bouncing around the country lanes of Aberdeenshire. Top marks to Andy once more for taking everything in his stride and not slapping me for the AVC-R boob.
Although the air flow is now alot closer to where it should be the car isn't taking as much timing as normal. The next step is to get the turbo off and have Andy inspect it. Call me daft but i had always wondered about the turbo as the previous owner had disappointing results with it on his RB5.
Anyway, the car felt different after the last mapping session but it feels alot different this time around. I can only describe 1st and 2nd as frantic and 3rd/4th feel damn impressive to me (remember where this car started). The headers are a strange one. I don't know if this is normal but they sound meaty at low revs (what i would expect) then further up the revs they go a bit mad where it seems as though i can feel harmonics through the pedals then beyond that they scream and the pedal feel goes. It all feels a little wierd to me right now but i'm sure i'll get used to it.
PS: there's a 20G in my boot.... shame it isn't mine.
Here's the graphs anyway...Power
Torque
For comparison here's the graphs from attempt #1.
Power
Torque
So on paper i'm up 22.1bhp and most significantly 33.1bl/ft up in torque.
I have two witnesses say they saw the dyno read 300.9bhp so i'm happy to quote the fridge as a 300bhp Impreza.The mapping session went well once the AVC-R was wired in correctly. Schoolboy error on that one on my part (purple wire goes to rpm not IDC...
) but was quickly spotted and resolved by Andy. Once the car had boost control things went a little smoother. I have to say i personally felt more relaxed this time around and mapping on a smooth motorway surface sure beats bouncing around the country lanes of Aberdeenshire. Top marks to Andy once more for taking everything in his stride and not slapping me for the AVC-R boob. Although the air flow is now alot closer to where it should be the car isn't taking as much timing as normal. The next step is to get the turbo off and have Andy inspect it. Call me daft but i had always wondered about the turbo as the previous owner had disappointing results with it on his RB5.
Anyway, the car felt different after the last mapping session but it feels alot different this time around. I can only describe 1st and 2nd as frantic and 3rd/4th feel damn impressive to me (remember where this car started). The headers are a strange one. I don't know if this is normal but they sound meaty at low revs (what i would expect) then further up the revs they go a bit mad where it seems as though i can feel harmonics through the pedals then beyond that they scream and the pedal feel goes. It all feels a little wierd to me right now but i'm sure i'll get used to it.
PS: there's a 20G in my boot.... shame it isn't mine.
Last edited by Carl Davey; 12 March 2005 at 07:35 PM.
12 March 2005, 07:36 PM
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Mapped to 1.3bar tailling to 1.25 Steve. AVC-R is holding it rock steady. Defi is showing 1.4bar although i'm not sure i trust the boost sender. Haven't done a peak recall yet.
Defi is showing 1.4bar although i'm not sure i trust the boost sender. Haven't done a peak recall yet.
12 March 2005, 07:57 PM
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I'll mention that to Andy when i send the turbo down to him. You sure it wasn't the turbine (not compressor) inlet he ported? We gave mine a mild going over with the die grinder but it would be possible to remove more metal if desired.