Remap question,is a KL needed?
07 October 2004, 01:45 PM
#32
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Its like chipping a psx and saying sorry your psx is knackered unlucky sausage, or fitting a memory upgrade to a PC and breaking sorry ! you can buy this top spec one off me though ! ha ha any comments BRD ?
07 October 2004, 09:12 PM
#33
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Sory guys,been a little busy.
Well,I drove on my own for a bit yesterday so I got a chance to put my foot down a bit.
I found that the car realy kicks now and flies through the rev range,so Im very happy with the performance side of it.
Im not happy about the fact that it takes a few seconds untill you can start it (and still turns over a few times),and the map does seem to have a few flat spots ie there is a slight jerk when adjusting the throttle.
I spoke to another fellow sn user who explained that the link has a lower resolution than most other ecu's and thats why there may be a hole in the map.
It idles ok AFAIK,although a little higher than normal(900rpm).
john banks,thanks for all the info,and my car does have an intake air temp sensor but I dont know if the link is using it.
As JB says,the problem with the ecu may have arrisen due to my alarm,and Bob did say that all power was lost momentarily.Im not sure why it happened,but my car has had a lot of work on it ie AC climate fitted,change of dash etc,and I had told Bob about all of this before the remap so when the ecu died it was the only excuse 'there must be a fault in your wiring'.
Personally I found it hard to beleive that a fault could exist in my wiring yet everything electrical works perfectly.
I did feel shafted and i didnt think that I should be liable for problems that may arrise during the remap.
Bob only had the one ecu left apart from the link so I could have gone home without the remap,but he was still going to charge me £150 for the replacement (+some labour which we never got into).
I didnt want to go home with the same thing that I had come with so the Link seemed to be the only way forward.If I wasnt being charged for the replacement ecu then I may have considered going home with nothing gained.
I was under the impression that it 'may' be normal to expect problems during this sort of work and that the owner is liable,but it seems that it isnt,so I may just get back intouch with Bob to see he can compensate for this missunderstanding.
I just wanted to know if the price for the link is the right price,I already feel like Ive been shafted,just want to know if any residue has been left up there.
Well,I drove on my own for a bit yesterday so I got a chance to put my foot down a bit.
I found that the car realy kicks now and flies through the rev range,so Im very happy with the performance side of it.
Im not happy about the fact that it takes a few seconds untill you can start it (and still turns over a few times),and the map does seem to have a few flat spots ie there is a slight jerk when adjusting the throttle.
I spoke to another fellow sn user who explained that the link has a lower resolution than most other ecu's and thats why there may be a hole in the map.
It idles ok AFAIK,although a little higher than normal(900rpm).
john banks,thanks for all the info,and my car does have an intake air temp sensor but I dont know if the link is using it.
As JB says,the problem with the ecu may have arrisen due to my alarm,and Bob did say that all power was lost momentarily.Im not sure why it happened,but my car has had a lot of work on it ie AC climate fitted,change of dash etc,and I had told Bob about all of this before the remap so when the ecu died it was the only excuse 'there must be a fault in your wiring'.
Personally I found it hard to beleive that a fault could exist in my wiring yet everything electrical works perfectly.
I did feel shafted and i didnt think that I should be liable for problems that may arrise during the remap.
Bob only had the one ecu left apart from the link so I could have gone home without the remap,but he was still going to charge me £150 for the replacement (+some labour which we never got into).
I didnt want to go home with the same thing that I had come with so the Link seemed to be the only way forward.If I wasnt being charged for the replacement ecu then I may have considered going home with nothing gained.
I was under the impression that it 'may' be normal to expect problems during this sort of work and that the owner is liable,but it seems that it isnt,so I may just get back intouch with Bob to see he can compensate for this missunderstanding.
I just wanted to know if the price for the link is the right price,I already feel like Ive been shafted,just want to know if any residue has been left up there.
07 October 2004, 09:24 PM
#34
but he was still going to charge me £150 for the replacement (+some labour which we never got into).
there will always be a risk to fry the ecu if you do it on the road side
but this is the mapper risk not yours , to be charged for frying your ecu is bad but IMHO i think the link will be a better ecu for you in the long run
07 October 2004, 09:31 PM
#35
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I'd suggest you have a nice chat with Bob who I am quite sure will be keen to redress the balance on this. If you're unhappy with the map I am sure that at the very least he will be happy to tweak your current 'hurried' map to suit your requirements a little better.
It's possible he may be able to do more for you with another Subaru ECU when he gets his hands on one
It's possible he may be able to do more for you with another Subaru ECU when he gets his hands on one
07 October 2004, 09:46 PM
#36
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Bob has told me that a remap will now cost £125,as the main mapping has been done,so I can now get mods and get the most out of the ecu,so yes it may be better in the long run but still expensive and I dont think I will do anything for a little while,Ill try and get my moneys worth from it first.
catalunya,i agree with what you are saying about frying electrical equipment,but its just at the time Bob made it out that there is no guarantee with this sort of work and that it was at my own risk.
I do have a feeling that the problem could have been with the turbo timer on my clifford alarm,its possible that bob may have been flashing the ecu whilst it was on tt and thats when it lost power when the timer had counted down.
Unfortunately i had to run outside to answer the mobile whilst this happened and when I came back,bob was looking a little worried and then told me that I may have a problem.
im still hoping someone can tell me what the going rate for one of these ecu's is inc mapping.
Thanks for all the replies guys
catalunya,i agree with what you are saying about frying electrical equipment,but its just at the time Bob made it out that there is no guarantee with this sort of work and that it was at my own risk.
I do have a feeling that the problem could have been with the turbo timer on my clifford alarm,its possible that bob may have been flashing the ecu whilst it was on tt and thats when it lost power when the timer had counted down.
Unfortunately i had to run outside to answer the mobile whilst this happened and when I came back,bob was looking a little worried and then told me that I may have a problem.
im still hoping someone can tell me what the going rate for one of these ecu's is inc mapping.
Thanks for all the replies guys
07 October 2004, 09:50 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve
I'd suggest you have a nice chat with Bob who I am quite sure will be keen to redress the balance on this. If you're unhappy with the map I am sure that at the very least he will be happy to tweak your current 'hurried' map to suit your requirements a little better.
It's possible he may be able to do more for you with another Subaru ECU when he gets his hands on one
It's possible he may be able to do more for you with another Subaru ECU when he gets his hands on one
Chears steve,i will do just that asap.
I just hope I dont have to wait another 3 months before a mapping sesion.
07 October 2004, 10:09 PM
#38
im still hoping someone can tell me what the going rate for one of these ecu's is inc mapping
plus remember on resle this is easier to sell as its only year specific where as you ecutek is car specific
its only seems bad at the moment give it 1 year then give the forum your comments bet you are not complaining 
Last edited by stevebt; 07 October 2004 at 10:13 PM.
07 October 2004, 10:59 PM
#39
Dij
I just wonder if I had a lucky escape .
During maping I sat in the car with Bob in a lay by and he told me to turn off / on the ignition and to sit still and fold my arms. I leant over to see what he was doing and turned on the wipers by accident and everything disapeared !!!
Maybe the bugeye ECU is a bit more robust ??
Shaun
I just wonder if I had a lucky escape .
During maping I sat in the car with Bob in a lay by and he told me to turn off / on the ignition and to sit still and fold my arms. I leant over to see what he was doing and turned on the wipers by accident and everything disapeared !!!
Maybe the bugeye ECU is a bit more robust ??
Shaun
07 October 2004, 11:56 PM
#40
Originally Posted by Midlife......
Dij
I just wonder if I had a lucky escape .
During maping I sat in the car with Bob in a lay by and he told me to turn off / on the ignition and to sit still and fold my arms. I leant over to see what he was doing and turned on the wipers by accident and everything disapeared !!!
Maybe the bugeye ECU is a bit more robust ??
Shaun
I just wonder if I had a lucky escape .
During maping I sat in the car with Bob in a lay by and he told me to turn off / on the ignition and to sit still and fold my arms. I leant over to see what he was doing and turned on the wipers by accident and everything disapeared !!!
Maybe the bugeye ECU is a bit more robust ??
Shaun
your gonna trash ecu,s flashing them in a layby, its just unlucky if its yours, the ecu has to be flashed in a proper enviroment but hat means more mapping time:eek; as everytime you got your settings you would need to return to the garage to upload the settings then go out again to check if they workred
and this doesnt always work as TSL fried my ecu , but it didnt cost me anything apart from the last three people who had mapped my ecu and left it open 
was only left with a TSL ecu after that
08 October 2004, 09:07 AM
#41
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I can't beleive after that the car doesn't run perfect and he wants to charge you for a further remap. Did he tell you about the potential frying of your ECU AND your responsibility. I can't beleive it takes so long to turn over the car that is one poorly mapped car! I tuned my PFC and it fires up first time every time ! perhaps I should charge a grand !
08 October 2004, 04:51 PM
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CataIunya, in fairness it does sound like Bob was forced to map the link rather "last minute" hence my comment that Dij should get in touch an ask bob for a "freebie" map tweaks. In the interests of keeping a gutted customer satisfied. It's not going to take hours, just a few bits of tidying up to smooth out responses and get idle nice etc etc
08 October 2004, 09:23 PM
#43
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Took it for a drive again today,and its not as bad as it may sound.I think I 'could'get used to it.
The starting up niggle I mentioned is,i have to wait 3 seconds for the ecu to do a diagnostics check and then,when turning the key to start,it seems to take a couple of turns more than usual to start,but nothing too bad,its similar to starting up a diesel.
I checked on the BRD site and it seems that I paid an Ok price for the 'package' ,its just a matter of getting the map tuned to perfection (if there is such a thing),without paying for it (it should have been right to start of with).
Its just the issue regarding the factory ecu that I want to resolve,and the fact that it 'shouldnt' be my responsibility,sugests that I should be compensated for the loss of an ecu.
Catalunya,AFAIR,nothing was mentioned prior to the mapping regarding liabilities and risks of remapping.
I had orignally spoken to Branco,who seemed to answer with plenty of information,but just as much sarcasm.Not the easiest person to get a straight answer out of IMO.
Although,when I had told Bob about work that had been done on the car,he did say'I may not be able to do anything atall with your car.You will have to bring your car to me and I will see'.
However,this is a little different from 'your ecu's dead,youre gonna need another one,and thats gonna cost£150',after an hour into the session.
BTW,the 'problem' happened at Bobs garage and not at the side of the road (if it makes any difference).
Dont want to make a reputable mapper sound bad here and he was very good once things got moving,its just the little issues that are stopping me from feeling 'satisfied'.
Ontop of this,I had orignally planned on going with the Andy F power fc op
tion,but he was having a problem with the supply at the time.
I now feel that I should have just waited.
Thanks for all the replies
keep them coming
The starting up niggle I mentioned is,i have to wait 3 seconds for the ecu to do a diagnostics check and then,when turning the key to start,it seems to take a couple of turns more than usual to start,but nothing too bad,its similar to starting up a diesel.
I checked on the BRD site and it seems that I paid an Ok price for the 'package' ,its just a matter of getting the map tuned to perfection (if there is such a thing),without paying for it (it should have been right to start of with).
Its just the issue regarding the factory ecu that I want to resolve,and the fact that it 'shouldnt' be my responsibility,sugests that I should be compensated for the loss of an ecu.
Catalunya,AFAIR,nothing was mentioned prior to the mapping regarding liabilities and risks of remapping.
I had orignally spoken to Branco,who seemed to answer with plenty of information,but just as much sarcasm.Not the easiest person to get a straight answer out of IMO.
Although,when I had told Bob about work that had been done on the car,he did say'I may not be able to do anything atall with your car.You will have to bring your car to me and I will see'.
However,this is a little different from 'your ecu's dead,youre gonna need another one,and thats gonna cost£150',after an hour into the session.
BTW,the 'problem' happened at Bobs garage and not at the side of the road (if it makes any difference).
Dont want to make a reputable mapper sound bad here and he was very good once things got moving,its just the little issues that are stopping me from feeling 'satisfied'.
Ontop of this,I had orignally planned on going with the Andy F power fc op
tion,but he was having a problem with the supply at the time.
I now feel that I should have just waited.
Thanks for all the replies
keep them coming
08 October 2004, 09:28 PM
#44
Ecu Specialist
The "other side"
I’ve been made aware of the comment in this thread, having read through the posts I have to say that while some are “only to be expected” some are surprising. CataIunya, your comments are particularly aggressive and you don’t even know the facts, however maybe perhaps that’s not surprising? Due to that and the implications that I am trying to pull a fast one and rip someone off I will chronicle the events of the day.
Wajjid, booked with us a while back for a remap, his spec indicated a MY99 with STi5 ecu, somewhat surprising but we are used to dealing with odd spec vehicles. The day before the remap he rang me to ask if he could have a “Tek2 as he didn’t want to pay for a custom remap, I explained that this was all we did, he said that he had fitted and STi engine and ecu to the car, the engine had blown up and he had then fitted a UK engine, now he was stuck with the STi ecu and no way of running the car properly, I asked him why didn’t he fit a UK ecu, he said he had tried and that it wouldn’t work. I told him that if I could just flash std UK code of some sort into the ecu then I would do and his deposit would be the cost, however if I had to adjust then it was custom mapping and therefore his original pricing would stand (bear in mind he had previously accepted this price when booking).
Wajjid duly arrived, the car is Cool Grey, looks v nice, initial checks carried out, normal questions asked etc, I again asked why not UK ecu instead ? At this point he explained that the car was originally an accident damaged car, he runs a scrap yard and it had “come in”, he repaired/had it repaired (not sure which) and decided to fit an STi engine from another car he had in the yard together with the ecu, however despite changing the requisite pins over in the ecu wiring it wouldn’t run so he fitted the looms and complete dash assy from the sti to his UK car, that means ALL the wiring was redone and grafted in, now there are differences between the two systems.
So on with the checks, I fit twin knock sensors these days to run with my det cans (BTW Link have released something called KNOCK BLOCK which is an electronic cct to receive, filter and transmit to headphones the knock sensor signal, can accept input from twin sensors), fitted the wide band sensor and connected up the Motec PLM, connected my remote test connector lead, plugged in the lap top and accessed the ecu with deltadash to check codes etc, AM was 11, no codes, accessed with Flash99 to look at fine learning, a mixture of positive and negative learning present against the AM of 11, not unexpected, zones affected showed Wajjid had been running some boost on the UK engine, since sti timing is way advanced over UK result was typical.
The next phase is to check the coms to the ecu, this is done by using a test feature in flash99 that ramps the baud rate to four times the norm and the sends packets to the ecu (pings it). I run this test and the criteria is 1000 packets sent with no errors, this test was carried out and the required result obtained. So, all seems well, I chose a version of UK ecu code that would give some upgrade benefit if it worked, bear in mined that STi hardware is different to UK and the ecu code would not be configured to deal with climate control etc, so I connected, ran flash99 and duly started the programming process. Prior to this I asked Wajjid to turn off his mobile phone as this could disrupt programming and cause the ecu to become useless, Wajjid got out of the car and said he needed to make a call and would go outside, as far as I know he did but I wasn’t watching him as I was concentrating on programming the ecu.
The sequence of programming is such that you turn on ignition, connect test mode connectors, ecu again runs a coms check by sending a packet to the ecu and it repeats that 20 times, only if that is successful does the software proceed, next is a battery check, alls well, then checks the programming supply is good, alls well, then it erases the ecu contents prior to reprogramming, problem, the ecu “hung” at the erase stage, its worth explaining that the MY99-00 ecu microcode can only be reprogrammed by copying the complete code to laptop memory, erasing the eprom completely and the reloading, since the software built into the chip that allows the programming is also copied out at this time any problem during erase leaves the microcontroller with no programming code so its impossible to access it from the on, I left the system hung for some minutes as it may have recovered however it clearly was not going to. Checking the activity of the software it was clear that the Vpp programming supply had become disrupted at this critical stage, I use a DC-DC converter to provide this to the dongle and it accepts voltage from 9 to 18 volts giving a 12.01 v fixed out put, this is fed into the dongle and hence to the ecu via the cars wiring. So a fault existed within the wiring causing this supply to fail part way through the erase process.
I explained all this to Wajjid, I do keep spare ecu’s but I only had one sti, I did have several UK ecu’s though so I decided to see if I could get a UK ecu working for him, so footwell opened and wiring (crank and ref sensors) switch with fuel pump wire repositioned, ecu would boot but not crank the car and not run the fuel pump, Wajjid had removed the immobiliser wiring in its entirety from the car and this was the problem as whilst the ecu doesn’t have any immobiliser built in (all Uk cars are retrofitted with a Sigma unit in UK) it does need a pin pulled high or low to enable it from the immobiliser, a call to Steve Done confirmed my suspicion that this is undocumented for obvious reasons, so no way to get the UK ecu to work. Trying the other ecu took about 2 ¼ hours of time to do btw. I refused to attempt to reprogram another ecu, since a wring fault was present that would have repeated the problem and if Wajjid chose to use the spare ecu to drive on then destroying that would also eliminate that as an option.
Wajjid had during this period explained about the car being accident damaged, work done etc, from what he said I got the impression he had done it himself or substantially so. In the course of attempting to fit the Uk ecu various wiring tidy ups were performed in the ecu loom, crank and ref wires connected with connectors instead of just being twisted together, that sort of thing. It is my very clear view that the cars wiring was not all it should be, this was the sole reason for the problem, I have never lost an ecu (apart from my own first one which was due to trying to program with a flat battery), my methods are designed to ensure that, however I can’t legislate for faults that are inherent in a car due to external work, If I **** up then no issue however.
I explained to Wajjid that there were some options, trailer the car away and him try to continue to get a UK ecu to work (we would refund him of course) as his best cost option, I could sell him a std STi ecu at a cost of £150 and again some refund would be available, that would allow him to drive but not solve his dilemma, fit a Link and map it to suit, ideal as it works in either UK or STi irrespective of wiring, dip switch adjustable and solves his problem.
He chose (note the word chose) the Link option, costs were explained and accepted, I did not charge him for any of the investigative work (a lot would and do). By now we are well into the day and my next customer has arrived, he was brilliant and understood the situation being happy to wait while I mapped the Link into Wahid’s car, this was done, it wasn’t done in a rush and Wajjid declared himself happy on the day. As a matter of comment the next car programmed faultlessly using exactly the same setup. During the link install Wajjid asked what would happen if he carried out further upgrades, it was at that point I explained that a REMAP FOR FURTHER MODIFICATION WOULD COST £125. Sorry for the caps, its for emphasis as I don’t want any further misunderstood comment on this, as any that have had Link ecu’s fitted in the past know any niggles are always sorted foc and that’s all part of our service.
So end of the day Wajjid drove off, not quite what was planned but we got there in the end.
I am disappointed to hear that Wajjid is not happy with some aspects, I’m sure he will be in touch with any other things in addition.
The above is my recollection of the day, I’ve left out some detail that’s not relevant, Wajjid if you feel that anything is not as happened please mail me and I will edit accordingly.
I agree that a maf based car has some advantages but also some major disadvantages even if it was robust. I map in extra throttle sensitivity and some change to driving style is required otherwise the odd jerk can be felt due to aggressive use. However I do that irrespective of the ecu being used.
Enough typing, if I think of anything else relevant I’ll add it, btw this is, as mentioned, virtually unknown in my terms although others have had more problems, I don’t subscribe to the view that its “expected” as with due precaution things should be fine, the MY01 onwards ecu’s do not have this risk as the microcontroller architecture is such that even if a phone rings right beside it all that would be lost would be the licence, the programming code is not resident in the same memory space and its only necessary to reprogram the changed areas of code within the ecu not all of it. (unless a complete code change is carried out) so very robust indeed. Thought I’d make this point as its easy for hysteria to develop.
Wajjid I look forward to discussing anything that may be niggling you.
Bob
Wajjid, booked with us a while back for a remap, his spec indicated a MY99 with STi5 ecu, somewhat surprising but we are used to dealing with odd spec vehicles. The day before the remap he rang me to ask if he could have a “Tek2 as he didn’t want to pay for a custom remap, I explained that this was all we did, he said that he had fitted and STi engine and ecu to the car, the engine had blown up and he had then fitted a UK engine, now he was stuck with the STi ecu and no way of running the car properly, I asked him why didn’t he fit a UK ecu, he said he had tried and that it wouldn’t work. I told him that if I could just flash std UK code of some sort into the ecu then I would do and his deposit would be the cost, however if I had to adjust then it was custom mapping and therefore his original pricing would stand (bear in mind he had previously accepted this price when booking).
Wajjid duly arrived, the car is Cool Grey, looks v nice, initial checks carried out, normal questions asked etc, I again asked why not UK ecu instead ? At this point he explained that the car was originally an accident damaged car, he runs a scrap yard and it had “come in”, he repaired/had it repaired (not sure which) and decided to fit an STi engine from another car he had in the yard together with the ecu, however despite changing the requisite pins over in the ecu wiring it wouldn’t run so he fitted the looms and complete dash assy from the sti to his UK car, that means ALL the wiring was redone and grafted in, now there are differences between the two systems.
So on with the checks, I fit twin knock sensors these days to run with my det cans (BTW Link have released something called KNOCK BLOCK which is an electronic cct to receive, filter and transmit to headphones the knock sensor signal, can accept input from twin sensors), fitted the wide band sensor and connected up the Motec PLM, connected my remote test connector lead, plugged in the lap top and accessed the ecu with deltadash to check codes etc, AM was 11, no codes, accessed with Flash99 to look at fine learning, a mixture of positive and negative learning present against the AM of 11, not unexpected, zones affected showed Wajjid had been running some boost on the UK engine, since sti timing is way advanced over UK result was typical.
The next phase is to check the coms to the ecu, this is done by using a test feature in flash99 that ramps the baud rate to four times the norm and the sends packets to the ecu (pings it). I run this test and the criteria is 1000 packets sent with no errors, this test was carried out and the required result obtained. So, all seems well, I chose a version of UK ecu code that would give some upgrade benefit if it worked, bear in mined that STi hardware is different to UK and the ecu code would not be configured to deal with climate control etc, so I connected, ran flash99 and duly started the programming process. Prior to this I asked Wajjid to turn off his mobile phone as this could disrupt programming and cause the ecu to become useless, Wajjid got out of the car and said he needed to make a call and would go outside, as far as I know he did but I wasn’t watching him as I was concentrating on programming the ecu.
The sequence of programming is such that you turn on ignition, connect test mode connectors, ecu again runs a coms check by sending a packet to the ecu and it repeats that 20 times, only if that is successful does the software proceed, next is a battery check, alls well, then checks the programming supply is good, alls well, then it erases the ecu contents prior to reprogramming, problem, the ecu “hung” at the erase stage, its worth explaining that the MY99-00 ecu microcode can only be reprogrammed by copying the complete code to laptop memory, erasing the eprom completely and the reloading, since the software built into the chip that allows the programming is also copied out at this time any problem during erase leaves the microcontroller with no programming code so its impossible to access it from the on, I left the system hung for some minutes as it may have recovered however it clearly was not going to. Checking the activity of the software it was clear that the Vpp programming supply had become disrupted at this critical stage, I use a DC-DC converter to provide this to the dongle and it accepts voltage from 9 to 18 volts giving a 12.01 v fixed out put, this is fed into the dongle and hence to the ecu via the cars wiring. So a fault existed within the wiring causing this supply to fail part way through the erase process.
I explained all this to Wajjid, I do keep spare ecu’s but I only had one sti, I did have several UK ecu’s though so I decided to see if I could get a UK ecu working for him, so footwell opened and wiring (crank and ref sensors) switch with fuel pump wire repositioned, ecu would boot but not crank the car and not run the fuel pump, Wajjid had removed the immobiliser wiring in its entirety from the car and this was the problem as whilst the ecu doesn’t have any immobiliser built in (all Uk cars are retrofitted with a Sigma unit in UK) it does need a pin pulled high or low to enable it from the immobiliser, a call to Steve Done confirmed my suspicion that this is undocumented for obvious reasons, so no way to get the UK ecu to work. Trying the other ecu took about 2 ¼ hours of time to do btw. I refused to attempt to reprogram another ecu, since a wring fault was present that would have repeated the problem and if Wajjid chose to use the spare ecu to drive on then destroying that would also eliminate that as an option.
Wajjid had during this period explained about the car being accident damaged, work done etc, from what he said I got the impression he had done it himself or substantially so. In the course of attempting to fit the Uk ecu various wiring tidy ups were performed in the ecu loom, crank and ref wires connected with connectors instead of just being twisted together, that sort of thing. It is my very clear view that the cars wiring was not all it should be, this was the sole reason for the problem, I have never lost an ecu (apart from my own first one which was due to trying to program with a flat battery), my methods are designed to ensure that, however I can’t legislate for faults that are inherent in a car due to external work, If I **** up then no issue however.
I explained to Wajjid that there were some options, trailer the car away and him try to continue to get a UK ecu to work (we would refund him of course) as his best cost option, I could sell him a std STi ecu at a cost of £150 and again some refund would be available, that would allow him to drive but not solve his dilemma, fit a Link and map it to suit, ideal as it works in either UK or STi irrespective of wiring, dip switch adjustable and solves his problem.
He chose (note the word chose) the Link option, costs were explained and accepted, I did not charge him for any of the investigative work (a lot would and do). By now we are well into the day and my next customer has arrived, he was brilliant and understood the situation being happy to wait while I mapped the Link into Wahid’s car, this was done, it wasn’t done in a rush and Wajjid declared himself happy on the day. As a matter of comment the next car programmed faultlessly using exactly the same setup. During the link install Wajjid asked what would happen if he carried out further upgrades, it was at that point I explained that a REMAP FOR FURTHER MODIFICATION WOULD COST £125. Sorry for the caps, its for emphasis as I don’t want any further misunderstood comment on this, as any that have had Link ecu’s fitted in the past know any niggles are always sorted foc and that’s all part of our service.
So end of the day Wajjid drove off, not quite what was planned but we got there in the end.
I am disappointed to hear that Wajjid is not happy with some aspects, I’m sure he will be in touch with any other things in addition.
The above is my recollection of the day, I’ve left out some detail that’s not relevant, Wajjid if you feel that anything is not as happened please mail me and I will edit accordingly.
I agree that a maf based car has some advantages but also some major disadvantages even if it was robust. I map in extra throttle sensitivity and some change to driving style is required otherwise the odd jerk can be felt due to aggressive use. However I do that irrespective of the ecu being used.
Enough typing, if I think of anything else relevant I’ll add it, btw this is, as mentioned, virtually unknown in my terms although others have had more problems, I don’t subscribe to the view that its “expected” as with due precaution things should be fine, the MY01 onwards ecu’s do not have this risk as the microcontroller architecture is such that even if a phone rings right beside it all that would be lost would be the licence, the programming code is not resident in the same memory space and its only necessary to reprogram the changed areas of code within the ecu not all of it. (unless a complete code change is carried out) so very robust indeed. Thought I’d make this point as its easy for hysteria to develop.
Wajjid I look forward to discussing anything that may be niggling you.
Bob
08 October 2004, 11:38 PM
#45
Hi Bob
Its been two hours since your post and no replies yet......... Hmmmmm ??
I'll reply then..................... I'll just get Olly at RCMS to sort out the AP FMIC / Headers and book myself in !
Thanks Bob
Its been two hours since your post and no replies yet......... Hmmmmm ??
I'll reply then..................... I'll just get Olly at RCMS to sort out the AP FMIC / Headers and book myself in !
Thanks Bob
09 October 2004, 09:33 PM
#46
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Thanks for replying and making some things clearer,I realise some statements might be misleading,so I will clarify that which needs to be.
Wajjid, booked with us a while back for a remap, his spec indicated a MY99 with STi5 ecu, somewhat surprising but we are used to dealing with odd spec vehicles. The day before the remap he rang me to ask if he could have a “Tek2 as he didn’t want to pay for a custom remap, I explained that this was all we did, he said that he had fitted and STi engine and ecu to the car, the engine had blown up and he had then fitted a UK engine, now he was stuck with the STi ecu and no way of running the car properly, I asked him why didn’t he fit a UK ecu, he said he had tried and that it wouldn’t work. I told him that if I could just flash std UK code of some sort into the ecu then I would do and his deposit would be the cost, however if I had to adjust then it was custom mapping and therefore his original pricing would stand (bear in mind he had previously accepted this price when booking).
#
All correct,and I was happy to pay the price that was orignally agread
Although nothing had been said about the potential risk of the ecu dying.
#
Wajjid duly arrived, the car is Cool Grey, looks v nice,
#
Thanks,so does your sti8
#
initial checks carried out, normal questions asked etc, I again asked why not UK ecu instead ?
At this point he explained that the car was originally an accident damaged car, he runs a scrap yard and it had “come in”, he repaired/had it repaired (not sure which)
#
I had the body resprayed,but didnt let the body shop do the refitting,I prefer to do that myself with my own technicians,as I dont trust many people.The idea was to convert to sti spec so I never did try to mix the jap - uk wiring/ecu.The UK ecu had been tried 2 months ago,after I posted the question up, and you actually helped whilst I was trying to get info.It didnt work hence me getting in contact with yourselves.
#
and decided to fit an STi engine from another car he had in the yard together with the ecu, however despite changing the requisite pins over in the ecu wiring it wouldn’t run so he fitted the looms and complete dash assy from the sti to his UK car, that means ALL the wiring was redone and grafted in, now there are differences between the two systems.
#
Correct,except I didnt try the uk ecu/pin outs,I fitted an undamaged wiring loom from the sti5 complete,as this way I could be sure that it would work and I wouldnt be forever chasing faults.This also insured there wouldnt be any conflicting components in the electrical system.
The car may as well be an sti 5 interms of wiring/electrical components.
#
So on with the checks, I fit twin knock sensors these days to run with my det cans (BTW Link have released something called KNOCK BLOCK which is an electronic cct to receive, filter and transmit to headphones the knock sensor signal, can accept input from twin sensors), fitted the wide band sensor and connected up the Motec PLM, connected my remote test connector lead, plugged in the lap top and accessed the ecu with deltadash to check codes etc, AM was 11, no codes, accessed with Flash99 to look at fine learning, a mixture of positive and negative learning present against the AM of 11, not unexpected, zones affected showed Wajjid had been running some boost on the UK engine, since sti timing is way advanced over UK result was typical.
#
Yes (whatever you say here) I was only standing and watching (not knowing exactly what you awhere doing) at this point,hoping that i can drive away with the cheaper option.
#
The next phase is to check the coms to the ecu, this is done by using a test feature in flash99 that ramps the baud rate to four times the norm and the sends packets to the ecu (pings it). I run this test and the criteria is 1000 packets sent with no errors, this test was carried out and the required result obtained. So, all seems well, I chose a version of UK ecu code that would give some upgrade benefit if it worked, bear in mined that STi hardware is different to UK and the ecu code would not be configured to deal with climate control etc, so I connected, ran flash99 and duly started the programming process. Prior to this I asked Wajjid to turn off his mobile phone as this could disrupt programming and cause the ecu to become useless, Wajjid got out of the car and said he needed to make a call and would go outside, as far as I know he did but I wasn’t watching him as I was concentrating on programming the ecu.
#
I have to disagree here.I was not told 'prior' to the mapping about switching off the mobile.I was standing next to you on the ns of the car watching when my phone rang,at this point I was told I could go outside to take the call.I went across the road and approx 30 feet away,finished the call quickly and switched the phone off.I then came back inside.
When I raised the question of the mobile phone being a possibility,you told me that you have 2 sitting on the table and it is unlikely.
#
The sequence of programming is such that you turn on ignition, connect test mode connectors, ecu again runs a coms check by sending a packet to the ecu and it repeats that 20 times, only if that is successful does the software proceed, next is a battery check, alls well, then checks the programming supply is good, alls well, then it erases the ecu contents prior to reprogramming, problem, the ecu “hung” at the erase stage, its worth explaining that the MY99-00 ecu microcode can only be reprogrammed by copying the complete code to laptop memory, erasing the eprom completely and the reloading, since the software built into the chip that allows the programming is also copied out at this time any problem during erase leaves the microcontroller with no programming code so its impossible to access it from the on, I left the system hung for some minutes as it may have recovered however it clearly was not going to. Checking the activity of the software it was clear that the Vpp programming supply had become disrupted at this critical stage, I use a DC-DC converter to provide this to the dongle and it accepts voltage from 9 to 18 volts giving a 12.01 v fixed out put, this is fed into the dongle and hence to the ecu via the cars wiring. So a fault existed within the wiring causing this supply to fail part way through the erase process.
#
I do seem to remember that whilst telling me that it had just gone pear shaped,that 'Oh its the bloody alarm' as you reached over to switch the ignition off.
IIRC,the program continued then ended with memory cleared (or something like this).
You then told me to turn the key to start,and it didnt start.
I know you said that 'the fault 'is' in the wiring loom',but after this I was baffled and tried to question what had just happened,to which you replied'it could be the ignition switch,but its too hard to say without going into electrical diagnostics.The main thing is you have a dead ecu,worthy of the bin now and you will have to decide what you want to do next'.
I gave in to the argument and didnt realy try and question any further,although I am curious as to why you thought that it could have been a problem with the ignition switch.
You hadnt let me touch the keys prior to this point and I cant help but wonder if the turbo timer button on the alarm fob was accidently pressed whilst leaning over from the passenger side.
#
I explained all this to Wajjid, I do keep spare ecu’s but I only had one sti, I did have several UK ecu’s though so I decided to see if I could get a UK ecu working for him, so footwell opened and wiring (crank and ref sensors) switch with fuel pump wire repositioned, ecu would boot but not crank the car and not run the fuel pump, Wajjid had removed the immobiliser wiring in its entirety from the car and this was the problem as whilst the ecu doesn’t have any immobiliser built in (all Uk cars are retrofitted with a Sigma unit in UK) it does need a pin pulled high or low to enable it from the immobiliser, a call to Steve Done confirmed my suspicion that this is undocumented for obvious reasons, so no way to get the UK ecu to work. Trying the other ecu took about 2 ¼ hours of time to do btw. I refused to attempt to reprogram another ecu, since a wring fault was present that would have repeated the problem and if Wajjid chose to use the spare ecu to drive on then destroying that would also eliminate that as an option.
#
I can understand why you couldnt risk trying another reprogramming on a factory ecu,but I had tried to explain (a few times by now)that I have gine through all the steps to try and get an AE8# ecu to work and that I am sure that it wont work,but once again I decided not to argue with you as you where so sure it would work.
As I had already explained what wiring loom was in the car,and given the limited options I was facing now,I was happy for you to prove me wrong about the uk ecu.
As you say this took 2 hours or so,and the pin swapping took up the majority of this time,but we ended up with no further progress.
I had now found out what code 53 is(immoboliser circuit fault),and you had found that the uk ecu registers the output from the intake air temp sensor,Apart from this nothing was gained.
Although you say the transponder key,receiver box,and wiring is retro fitted to all uk cars,I do have my doubts.The P1 does not have this,and the Sigma system is the alarm/immoboliser which is possible to remove from the car (if done carefully)without affecting the ecu's ability to start up.
You say that I had remived the immoboliser wiring,well ofcourse,it was gone with the old loom,the current loom is a jap spec loom so it never had the wiring.
#
Wajjid had during this period explained about the car being accident damaged, work done etc, from what he said I got the impression he had done it himself or substantially so. In the course of attempting to fit the Uk ecu various wiring tidy ups were performed in the ecu loom, crank and ref wires connected with connectors instead of just being twisted together, that sort of thing. It is my very clear view that the cars wiring was not all it should be, this was the sole reason for the problem, I have never lost an ecu (apart from my own first one which was due to trying to program with a flat battery), my methods are designed to ensure that, however I can’t legislate for faults that are inherent in a car due to external work, If I **** up then no issue however.
#
Well,fine if you are sure then ther is nothing that can be done about it (or at least nothing that would be worth the hassle).
Yes I have done alot of the work on my car myself,and as I have said further up,I dont easily trust work onto others for various reasons,one of them being so that I know if something has been messed around and not done propperly.
I appreciate you crimping push in connectors to the cam/crank wires,as this saved me soldering them when I got back (just aswell they werent soldered yet as these only took a few minutes to swap,unlike the problems that the fuel pump pin gave,ie not coming out easily,getting replaced into the wrong place etc),but I would have liked to spent a little time myself with the ecu wiring ie putting back some of the insulation etc,but this can always be sorted later on.
#
I would like to know how you would determine if it was your fault ie if my car hadnt had a wiring transplant(or if I never told you about any of it),and this still happened,would you have then still said its a problem in the cars wiring?
Just a thought, but IIRC, your pc was down on battery power and you asked me to keep the accessory power on so that it could charge up.
There was also a couple of times when the serial connection to the pc had to be retightened etc,and the power from the cig lighter socket was also going to the port under the stearing column(the main plug on the car for the pc,under the stearing) this had to be pushed and wiggled at one point to get the power led to come on .All of these could possibly cause problems IMO,BUT I can not be certain and I does not make sense to pursue this.
#
I explained to Wajjid that there were some options, trailer the car away and him try to continue to get a UK ecu to work (we would refund him of course) as his best cost option, I could sell him a std STi ecu at a cost of £150 and again some refund would be available, that would allow him to drive but not solve his dilemma, fit a Link and map it to suit, ideal as it works in either UK or STi irrespective of wiring, dip switch adjustable and solves his problem.
#
He chose (note the word chose) the Link option, costs were explained and accepted,
Yes that is correct,although I did not have much more of an option at this point,but yes given the situation I did choose to go with this.
#
I did not charge him for any of the investigative work (a lot would and do).
#
Once again ,much appreciated,but your investigation just proved the results of my previous investigation.
#
By now we are well into the day and my next customer has arrived, he was brilliant and understood the situation being happy to wait while I mapped the Link into Wahid’s car, this was done, it wasn’t done in a rush and Wajjid declared himself happy on the day. As a matter of comment the next car programmed faultlessly using exactly the same setup. During the link install Wajjid asked what would happen if he carried out further upgrades, it was at that point I explained that a REMAP FOR FURTHER MODIFICATION WOULD COST £125. Sorry for the caps, its for emphasis as I don’t want any further misunderstood comment on this, as any that have had Link ecu’s fitted in the past know any niggles are always sorted foc and that’s all part of our service.
#
Yes I was happy,but I would say more releived that it wasnt going to be a total waste of time and money.I was however happy that I can now start to drive the car propperly again.
#
So end of the day Wajjid drove off, not quite what was planned but we got there in the end.
#
Agreed
#
I am disappointed to hear that Wajjid is not happy with some aspects, I’m sure he will be in touch with any other things in addition.
#
I will be as soon as I can find your mob no.
#
The above is my recollection of the day, I’ve left out some detail that’s not relevant, Wajjid if you feel that anything is not as happened please mail me and I will edit accordingly.
#
Well I have made my comments above for all to see,as have you .
#
I agree that a maf based car has some advantages but also some major disadvantages even if it was robust. I map in extra throttle sensitivity and some change to driving style is required otherwise the odd jerk can be felt due to aggressive use. However I do that irrespective of the ecu being used.
#
I am more concerned with jerks when adjusting throttle slowly and lower in the rev range ie cruising at 2700 rpm,slowly accelerating to3100 rpm and letting of a tiny bit will make the whole car slightly hiccup.
This was felt on the day aswell on the way back to your place and you did say I came of the throttle too quickly but this also happens on the motorway.
#
Enough typing, if I think of anything else relevant I’ll add it,
#
Cant agree with you more there
#
Wajjid I look forward to discussing anything that may be niggling you.
#
I will be in touch (tomorrow hopefully).
#
Bob
#
I would like to point out again (as I tried at the begining of the thread),that Bob was very patient with all the way through and even decided to make a last minute tweak after changing the restrictor,I would have been happy with 1.1 bar but he mapped it to 1.3,which made quite a bit of difference.
I do thank you again for the 'extra' work that was carried out on my car,and hope that I will get these 'little' things sorted.
Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
Wajjid, booked with us a while back for a remap, his spec indicated a MY99 with STi5 ecu, somewhat surprising but we are used to dealing with odd spec vehicles. The day before the remap he rang me to ask if he could have a “Tek2 as he didn’t want to pay for a custom remap, I explained that this was all we did, he said that he had fitted and STi engine and ecu to the car, the engine had blown up and he had then fitted a UK engine, now he was stuck with the STi ecu and no way of running the car properly, I asked him why didn’t he fit a UK ecu, he said he had tried and that it wouldn’t work. I told him that if I could just flash std UK code of some sort into the ecu then I would do and his deposit would be the cost, however if I had to adjust then it was custom mapping and therefore his original pricing would stand (bear in mind he had previously accepted this price when booking).
#
All correct,and I was happy to pay the price that was orignally agread
Although nothing had been said about the potential risk of the ecu dying.
#
Wajjid duly arrived, the car is Cool Grey, looks v nice,
#
Thanks,so does your sti8
#
initial checks carried out, normal questions asked etc, I again asked why not UK ecu instead ?
At this point he explained that the car was originally an accident damaged car, he runs a scrap yard and it had “come in”, he repaired/had it repaired (not sure which)
#
I had the body resprayed,but didnt let the body shop do the refitting,I prefer to do that myself with my own technicians,as I dont trust many people.The idea was to convert to sti spec so I never did try to mix the jap - uk wiring/ecu.The UK ecu had been tried 2 months ago,after I posted the question up, and you actually helped whilst I was trying to get info.It didnt work hence me getting in contact with yourselves.
#
and decided to fit an STi engine from another car he had in the yard together with the ecu, however despite changing the requisite pins over in the ecu wiring it wouldn’t run so he fitted the looms and complete dash assy from the sti to his UK car, that means ALL the wiring was redone and grafted in, now there are differences between the two systems.
#
Correct,except I didnt try the uk ecu/pin outs,I fitted an undamaged wiring loom from the sti5 complete,as this way I could be sure that it would work and I wouldnt be forever chasing faults.This also insured there wouldnt be any conflicting components in the electrical system.
The car may as well be an sti 5 interms of wiring/electrical components.
#
So on with the checks, I fit twin knock sensors these days to run with my det cans (BTW Link have released something called KNOCK BLOCK which is an electronic cct to receive, filter and transmit to headphones the knock sensor signal, can accept input from twin sensors), fitted the wide band sensor and connected up the Motec PLM, connected my remote test connector lead, plugged in the lap top and accessed the ecu with deltadash to check codes etc, AM was 11, no codes, accessed with Flash99 to look at fine learning, a mixture of positive and negative learning present against the AM of 11, not unexpected, zones affected showed Wajjid had been running some boost on the UK engine, since sti timing is way advanced over UK result was typical.
#
Yes (whatever you say here) I was only standing and watching (not knowing exactly what you awhere doing) at this point,hoping that i can drive away with the cheaper option.
#
The next phase is to check the coms to the ecu, this is done by using a test feature in flash99 that ramps the baud rate to four times the norm and the sends packets to the ecu (pings it). I run this test and the criteria is 1000 packets sent with no errors, this test was carried out and the required result obtained. So, all seems well, I chose a version of UK ecu code that would give some upgrade benefit if it worked, bear in mined that STi hardware is different to UK and the ecu code would not be configured to deal with climate control etc, so I connected, ran flash99 and duly started the programming process. Prior to this I asked Wajjid to turn off his mobile phone as this could disrupt programming and cause the ecu to become useless, Wajjid got out of the car and said he needed to make a call and would go outside, as far as I know he did but I wasn’t watching him as I was concentrating on programming the ecu.
#
I have to disagree here.I was not told 'prior' to the mapping about switching off the mobile.I was standing next to you on the ns of the car watching when my phone rang,at this point I was told I could go outside to take the call.I went across the road and approx 30 feet away,finished the call quickly and switched the phone off.I then came back inside.
When I raised the question of the mobile phone being a possibility,you told me that you have 2 sitting on the table and it is unlikely.
#
The sequence of programming is such that you turn on ignition, connect test mode connectors, ecu again runs a coms check by sending a packet to the ecu and it repeats that 20 times, only if that is successful does the software proceed, next is a battery check, alls well, then checks the programming supply is good, alls well, then it erases the ecu contents prior to reprogramming, problem, the ecu “hung” at the erase stage, its worth explaining that the MY99-00 ecu microcode can only be reprogrammed by copying the complete code to laptop memory, erasing the eprom completely and the reloading, since the software built into the chip that allows the programming is also copied out at this time any problem during erase leaves the microcontroller with no programming code so its impossible to access it from the on, I left the system hung for some minutes as it may have recovered however it clearly was not going to. Checking the activity of the software it was clear that the Vpp programming supply had become disrupted at this critical stage, I use a DC-DC converter to provide this to the dongle and it accepts voltage from 9 to 18 volts giving a 12.01 v fixed out put, this is fed into the dongle and hence to the ecu via the cars wiring. So a fault existed within the wiring causing this supply to fail part way through the erase process.
#
I do seem to remember that whilst telling me that it had just gone pear shaped,that 'Oh its the bloody alarm' as you reached over to switch the ignition off.
IIRC,the program continued then ended with memory cleared (or something like this).
You then told me to turn the key to start,and it didnt start.
I know you said that 'the fault 'is' in the wiring loom',but after this I was baffled and tried to question what had just happened,to which you replied'it could be the ignition switch,but its too hard to say without going into electrical diagnostics.The main thing is you have a dead ecu,worthy of the bin now and you will have to decide what you want to do next'.
I gave in to the argument and didnt realy try and question any further,although I am curious as to why you thought that it could have been a problem with the ignition switch.
You hadnt let me touch the keys prior to this point and I cant help but wonder if the turbo timer button on the alarm fob was accidently pressed whilst leaning over from the passenger side.
#
I explained all this to Wajjid, I do keep spare ecu’s but I only had one sti, I did have several UK ecu’s though so I decided to see if I could get a UK ecu working for him, so footwell opened and wiring (crank and ref sensors) switch with fuel pump wire repositioned, ecu would boot but not crank the car and not run the fuel pump, Wajjid had removed the immobiliser wiring in its entirety from the car and this was the problem as whilst the ecu doesn’t have any immobiliser built in (all Uk cars are retrofitted with a Sigma unit in UK) it does need a pin pulled high or low to enable it from the immobiliser, a call to Steve Done confirmed my suspicion that this is undocumented for obvious reasons, so no way to get the UK ecu to work. Trying the other ecu took about 2 ¼ hours of time to do btw. I refused to attempt to reprogram another ecu, since a wring fault was present that would have repeated the problem and if Wajjid chose to use the spare ecu to drive on then destroying that would also eliminate that as an option.
#
I can understand why you couldnt risk trying another reprogramming on a factory ecu,but I had tried to explain (a few times by now)that I have gine through all the steps to try and get an AE8# ecu to work and that I am sure that it wont work,but once again I decided not to argue with you as you where so sure it would work.
As I had already explained what wiring loom was in the car,and given the limited options I was facing now,I was happy for you to prove me wrong about the uk ecu.
As you say this took 2 hours or so,and the pin swapping took up the majority of this time,but we ended up with no further progress.
I had now found out what code 53 is(immoboliser circuit fault),and you had found that the uk ecu registers the output from the intake air temp sensor,Apart from this nothing was gained.
Although you say the transponder key,receiver box,and wiring is retro fitted to all uk cars,I do have my doubts.The P1 does not have this,and the Sigma system is the alarm/immoboliser which is possible to remove from the car (if done carefully)without affecting the ecu's ability to start up.
You say that I had remived the immoboliser wiring,well ofcourse,it was gone with the old loom,the current loom is a jap spec loom so it never had the wiring.
#
Wajjid had during this period explained about the car being accident damaged, work done etc, from what he said I got the impression he had done it himself or substantially so. In the course of attempting to fit the Uk ecu various wiring tidy ups were performed in the ecu loom, crank and ref wires connected with connectors instead of just being twisted together, that sort of thing. It is my very clear view that the cars wiring was not all it should be, this was the sole reason for the problem, I have never lost an ecu (apart from my own first one which was due to trying to program with a flat battery), my methods are designed to ensure that, however I can’t legislate for faults that are inherent in a car due to external work, If I **** up then no issue however.
#
Well,fine if you are sure then ther is nothing that can be done about it (or at least nothing that would be worth the hassle).
Yes I have done alot of the work on my car myself,and as I have said further up,I dont easily trust work onto others for various reasons,one of them being so that I know if something has been messed around and not done propperly.
I appreciate you crimping push in connectors to the cam/crank wires,as this saved me soldering them when I got back (just aswell they werent soldered yet as these only took a few minutes to swap,unlike the problems that the fuel pump pin gave,ie not coming out easily,getting replaced into the wrong place etc),but I would have liked to spent a little time myself with the ecu wiring ie putting back some of the insulation etc,but this can always be sorted later on.
#
I would like to know how you would determine if it was your fault ie if my car hadnt had a wiring transplant(or if I never told you about any of it),and this still happened,would you have then still said its a problem in the cars wiring?
Just a thought, but IIRC, your pc was down on battery power and you asked me to keep the accessory power on so that it could charge up.
There was also a couple of times when the serial connection to the pc had to be retightened etc,and the power from the cig lighter socket was also going to the port under the stearing column(the main plug on the car for the pc,under the stearing) this had to be pushed and wiggled at one point to get the power led to come on .All of these could possibly cause problems IMO,BUT I can not be certain and I does not make sense to pursue this.
#
I explained to Wajjid that there were some options, trailer the car away and him try to continue to get a UK ecu to work (we would refund him of course) as his best cost option, I could sell him a std STi ecu at a cost of £150 and again some refund would be available, that would allow him to drive but not solve his dilemma, fit a Link and map it to suit, ideal as it works in either UK or STi irrespective of wiring, dip switch adjustable and solves his problem.
#
He chose (note the word chose) the Link option, costs were explained and accepted,
Yes that is correct,although I did not have much more of an option at this point,but yes given the situation I did choose to go with this.
#
I did not charge him for any of the investigative work (a lot would and do).
#
Once again ,much appreciated,but your investigation just proved the results of my previous investigation.
#
By now we are well into the day and my next customer has arrived, he was brilliant and understood the situation being happy to wait while I mapped the Link into Wahid’s car, this was done, it wasn’t done in a rush and Wajjid declared himself happy on the day. As a matter of comment the next car programmed faultlessly using exactly the same setup. During the link install Wajjid asked what would happen if he carried out further upgrades, it was at that point I explained that a REMAP FOR FURTHER MODIFICATION WOULD COST £125. Sorry for the caps, its for emphasis as I don’t want any further misunderstood comment on this, as any that have had Link ecu’s fitted in the past know any niggles are always sorted foc and that’s all part of our service.
#
Yes I was happy,but I would say more releived that it wasnt going to be a total waste of time and money.I was however happy that I can now start to drive the car propperly again.
#
So end of the day Wajjid drove off, not quite what was planned but we got there in the end.
#
Agreed
#
I am disappointed to hear that Wajjid is not happy with some aspects, I’m sure he will be in touch with any other things in addition.
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I will be as soon as I can find your mob no.
#
The above is my recollection of the day, I’ve left out some detail that’s not relevant, Wajjid if you feel that anything is not as happened please mail me and I will edit accordingly.
#
Well I have made my comments above for all to see,as have you .
#
I agree that a maf based car has some advantages but also some major disadvantages even if it was robust. I map in extra throttle sensitivity and some change to driving style is required otherwise the odd jerk can be felt due to aggressive use. However I do that irrespective of the ecu being used.
#
I am more concerned with jerks when adjusting throttle slowly and lower in the rev range ie cruising at 2700 rpm,slowly accelerating to3100 rpm and letting of a tiny bit will make the whole car slightly hiccup.
This was felt on the day aswell on the way back to your place and you did say I came of the throttle too quickly but this also happens on the motorway.
#
Enough typing, if I think of anything else relevant I’ll add it,
#
Cant agree with you more there
#
Wajjid I look forward to discussing anything that may be niggling you.
#
I will be in touch (tomorrow hopefully).
#
Bob
I would like to point out again (as I tried at the begining of the thread),that Bob was very patient with all the way through and even decided to make a last minute tweak after changing the restrictor,I would have been happy with 1.1 bar but he mapped it to 1.3,which made quite a bit of difference.
I do thank you again for the 'extra' work that was carried out on my car,and hope that I will get these 'little' things sorted.
Last edited by dij; 09 October 2004 at 09:37 PM.
10 October 2004, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Peanuts
looks like both interested parties in this matter are going to be talking direct to each other.
Im sure a positive result all round will be had
Im sure a positive result all round will be had
Bob has offered to sort out the small imperfections that 'may' exist in the map,as he would with any customer.
More importantly however,he has also agread to compensate for the loss of my factory ecu,by making further changes to the map at a later date if I choose to add a few mods (no major mods),FOC.
He has explained yet further to me about the nature of the failure,and it would seem that the problem 'is'more than likely in the wiring,but the fact that I am being graced with the remap means that indirectly I am getting a refund for the cost of my ecu,even though it appears that it isnt Bobs fault.
Now anyone would be more than sattisfied with that,and I am over the moon about it
.I feel that given the circumstances,I have ended up with a good deal and my problem sorted for a fair price,when the outcome could have been a lot worse and more costly had I been dealing with a different company that was more intent on making money than dealing with a customers problems.
As I have said before,Bob did do more than he had to,whilst it was cold,and whilst wearing just a T shirt.Iwould have given up if I was in his position,but Bob was 'very'patient.
Looking back at the whole thing I would say that its all ended up well and I am happy with the result.
All's well that ends well
Once again,Top man
Many thanks Bob
11 October 2004, 07:33 PM
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Well hats off to Bob for the 1 hours worth of typing,i'm glad he put his version of events across and also that Dij is happy.
I know people on here can close ranks on occasions and refuse to accept peoples critisism but Bob came up to the plate and sorted an unhappy customer, happy days all round.
PS, Bob keep the messages short, i've had to turn the screen off and take a rest after all that reading, LOL.
Zippy
I know people on here can close ranks on occasions and refuse to accept peoples critisism but Bob came up to the plate and sorted an unhappy customer, happy days all round.
PS, Bob keep the messages short, i've had to turn the screen off and take a rest after all that reading, LOL.
Zippy
11 October 2004, 08:09 PM
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Well about time Bob, the fact still remains that YOU fried this guys ECU he told you all the background before the flash. Also you didn't explain to him who would be liable when you **** up......
Maybe you should have had a brief glance at the loom to make sure everything was in order knowing that the looms had been swapped over? sounds like common sense to me......
Maybe you should have had a brief glance at the loom to make sure everything was in order knowing that the looms had been swapped over? sounds like common sense to me......
11 October 2004, 09:04 PM
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Cr#p, how would Bob know to check the wiring loom, its not something he or any mapper would do, if the car arrives under its own steam and passes the basic checks then away he would go, if there then proves to be something underlying how would he be expected to know.
Whilst i agree he should have at the time explained what he intended to do in the way of future costs,Dij is now happy after Bob and him have had a chat.
The thread has run its course and Dij has said his piece and Bob has replied and the two parties are happy.
Zippy
Whilst i agree he should have at the time explained what he intended to do in the way of future costs,Dij is now happy after Bob and him have had a chat.
The thread has run its course and Dij has said his piece and Bob has replied and the two parties are happy.
Zippy
11 October 2004, 09:26 PM
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Thanks for all the help guys
As Zippy says,we have sorted this out so it dosent need to be discussed further.
catalunya,I do agree with what you are saying and apreciate your concern,but there is no need for it now,this matter is resolved and Bob will compensate for this matter regardless of fault.
This only goes to show that he is a genuine guy and willing to flex inorder to keep a customer happy.
I have been in the motor trade for a little while now and I am used to things not going to plan (especially where there is a high tech car like a scooby).
Life can be a bitch and thats when the good guys shine through.
I am now a sattisfied customer and this is all that should count.
As Zippy says,we have sorted this out so it dosent need to be discussed further.
catalunya,I do agree with what you are saying and apreciate your concern,but there is no need for it now,this matter is resolved and Bob will compensate for this matter regardless of fault.
This only goes to show that he is a genuine guy and willing to flex inorder to keep a customer happy.
I have been in the motor trade for a little while now and I am used to things not going to plan (especially where there is a high tech car like a scooby).
Life can be a bitch and thats when the good guys shine through.
I am now a sattisfied customer and this is all that should count.
11 October 2004, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve
Am very glad you both got that sorted before it got silly.Bob has a good reputation for a reason: It sounds like you just needed a bit more time 'together'
:P Thanks steve
BTW,dont forget about the kl now
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