EVO vs IMPREZA
14 July 2000, 04:19 PM
#61
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Hello Moray,
Just seen your post. Admittedly the workshop manuals are probably translated from Japanese so they could be wrong. Anyway I've done what you have suggested and phoned Tony *** who is the Technical Director at Ralliart (01384 216101), and the person that all dealerships turn to for advice on EVOs. He confirms that the front differencial is a mechanical type. No torque splitting device is used at the front. Sorry. The layout is per my previous post. In any case as you probably know front wheel drive cars with these kind of devices can be pigs in the wet, and suffer from torque steer. That certainly isn't a trait the EVO exhibits which further confirms the point. How does your Torsen diff effect the steering under power?
Rallycar.com is quite a good source of information, but sadly some of it is incorrect. I seem to remember somewhere that it states that the Subaru has three locking diffs too.
EVOs do power oversteer with little provocation especially in the wet. The difference is after the initial slide the rear end seems to behave similarly to normal four wheel drive cars. You might say it acts initially like a rear wheel drive car, then a four wheel drive (in my opinion waiting ear bashing from SdeB).
Steve
Just seen your post. Admittedly the workshop manuals are probably translated from Japanese so they could be wrong. Anyway I've done what you have suggested and phoned Tony *** who is the Technical Director at Ralliart (01384 216101), and the person that all dealerships turn to for advice on EVOs. He confirms that the front differencial is a mechanical type. No torque splitting device is used at the front. Sorry. The layout is per my previous post. In any case as you probably know front wheel drive cars with these kind of devices can be pigs in the wet, and suffer from torque steer. That certainly isn't a trait the EVO exhibits which further confirms the point. How does your Torsen diff effect the steering under power?
Rallycar.com is quite a good source of information, but sadly some of it is incorrect. I seem to remember somewhere that it states that the Subaru has three locking diffs too.
EVOs do power oversteer with little provocation especially in the wet. The difference is after the initial slide the rear end seems to behave similarly to normal four wheel drive cars. You might say it acts initially like a rear wheel drive car, then a four wheel drive (in my opinion waiting ear bashing from SdeB).
Steve
14 July 2000, 05:17 PM
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Steve Procktor,
I have just rung Tony *** at Ralliart on the number you kindly furnished... (Apparently, he is the person that all dealerships turn to for advice on EVOs
). He has confirmed to me that all Evo 6's have a Clutch type Rear LSD, A viscous type centre LSD and a mechanical "helical gear type" front LSD (Limited Slip Diff.). He didn't know if this diff was of the traditional torsen design (Gleason corp design) or a variation on the theme, ala Quaife ATB, but he confirmed it was a mechanical limited slip device using helical gears. He confirmed this is why the 6 grips so well at the front.
The beauty of the "helical" style diff is that it works just like an open diff up to the point when a wheel starts slipping under power, at which point it applies more lock up in a smooth and progressive manner, but never fully locking, which is why they are so good as front diffs, on FWD and AWD systems.
Rallycar.com states that SOME subarus are supplied with front LSDs, which is the case. It does not state anywhere that I've read that ALL subarus have 3 diffs.
BTW: Most "normal" four wheel drive cars with a neutral setup can be driven in such a manner that they power oversteer... it's the nature of the beast! The evo isn't particularly different in this way. Of course, having a front LSD helps evo's to bite into the turn and this can contribute to a healthy helping of power oversteer.
Anyways, gotta go now, (big sigh of relief from our readers there! ), so have a good weekend and enjoy your fantastic car, front limited slip diff and all.
Moray
I have just rung Tony *** at Ralliart on the number you kindly furnished... (Apparently, he is the person that all dealerships turn to for advice on EVOs
). He has confirmed to me that all Evo 6's have a Clutch type Rear LSD, A viscous type centre LSD and a mechanical "helical gear type" front LSD (Limited Slip Diff.). He didn't know if this diff was of the traditional torsen design (Gleason corp design) or a variation on the theme, ala Quaife ATB, but he confirmed it was a mechanical limited slip device using helical gears. He confirmed this is why the 6 grips so well at the front. The beauty of the "helical" style diff is that it works just like an open diff up to the point when a wheel starts slipping under power, at which point it applies more lock up in a smooth and progressive manner, but never fully locking, which is why they are so good as front diffs, on FWD and AWD systems.
Rallycar.com states that SOME subarus are supplied with front LSDs, which is the case. It does not state anywhere that I've read that ALL subarus have 3 diffs.
BTW: Most "normal" four wheel drive cars with a neutral setup can be driven in such a manner that they power oversteer... it's the nature of the beast! The evo isn't particularly different in this way. Of course, having a front LSD helps evo's to bite into the turn and this can contribute to a healthy helping of power oversteer.
Anyways, gotta go now, (big sigh of relief from our readers there!
), so have a good weekend and enjoy your fantastic car, front limited slip diff and all. Moray
14 July 2000, 06:22 PM
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Moray.........I don't wish to labour the point, but I find it hard to believe that Tony *** should say one thing to me and something completely different to you in the course of the same afternoon.
Still shall we let sleeping dogs lie.
Steve.
Still shall we let sleeping dogs lie.
Steve.
15 July 2000, 01:53 AM
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Marc,
I think so mate. A lot has to do with your 'no bullsh1t' recommendations. I have managed to secure a test drive for later this week in both an Evo VI and a V-Ltd v5. This is the ultimate decider, bubt somehow, I have a feeling which I will go for and I think you may have a good idea too.
cem
p.s. email me @ cem@blowdog.com
I have forgotten your email addy
I think so mate. A lot has to do with your 'no bullsh1t' recommendations. I have managed to secure a test drive for later this week in both an Evo VI and a V-Ltd v5. This is the ultimate decider, bubt somehow, I have a feeling which I will go for and I think you may have a good idea too.
cem
p.s. email me @ cem@blowdog.com
I have forgotten your email addy
16 July 2000, 11:56 AM
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Steve Procktor,
I don't like the implication you made with your "hard to believe" comment about my call to Tony.
I took great care to ask Tony the question in a clear and concise manner and in such a way that he could not missunderstand the meaning. I also made sure I confirmed the answer with him just so there was no chance of any ambiguity.
He specifically confirmed that the car had a Helical type LSD on the front and that this was why the evo's front pulls in so well.
Remember, the torsen/quaife designs of LSD are mechanical in operation, as is a standard open diff... maybe this could be a source of confusion.
Moray
I don't like the implication you made with your "hard to believe" comment about my call to Tony.
I took great care to ask Tony the question in a clear and concise manner and in such a way that he could not missunderstand the meaning. I also made sure I confirmed the answer with him just so there was no chance of any ambiguity.
He specifically confirmed that the car had a Helical type LSD on the front and that this was why the evo's front pulls in so well.
Remember, the torsen/quaife designs of LSD are mechanical in operation, as is a standard open diff... maybe this could be a source of confusion.
Moray
16 July 2000, 07:35 PM
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Buy the Evo VI man !!
After 500 miles in my brand new car.
(not properly run on yet), It is twice the car the Scooby is.
Well made, looks awesome in silver, handle's
vrey similar in normal driving, but that mid-range boot, sounds like a proper car and not one that is running on two cylinders!
I'm sorry but it's true, I've just sold my scooby and gone for one of these and I must say, I should have done it sooner.
Anyone who is out there considering which one to go for, there is no comparison it's got to be the EVO, YOU'll LOVE IT !!
After 500 miles in my brand new car.
(not properly run on yet), It is twice the car the Scooby is.
Well made, looks awesome in silver, handle's
vrey similar in normal driving, but that mid-range boot, sounds like a proper car and not one that is running on two cylinders!
I'm sorry but it's true, I've just sold my scooby and gone for one of these and I must say, I should have done it sooner.
Anyone who is out there considering which one to go for, there is no comparison it's got to be the EVO, YOU'll LOVE IT !!
at last someone who talks sense.
16 July 2000, 10:17 PM
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God this debate is dull and ive resisted this long b4 my post.
I`ve done 1300 miles in my P1 now and ive pushed it hard.
There is no way that it turns in as well as my old Evo 5.
It understeers like a ******* in the wet and a dab on the handbrake in the wet is a far more rewarding way to drive it. This induces oversteer which quite frankly i prefer to understeer.
In the Evo you could drive it like a mk 2 escort.......graet fun.
The Evo has bigger tyres which must help.
Any way i do love my new P1 cos it is still bloody quick and in my opinion better to drive on bumpy b roads and just about all surfaces.
The Evo on the track if I was driving anyway would **** off from my P1.
BUT on a typical road where I live Ill take the P1 anytime which is why I bought it.
If I could just reduce the understeer slightly I am 100% happy.
P1 sounds better,looks better and has stacks more class In my opinion.
Personal choice rules again they are all good quick cars but do things a bit differently which means its hard to guage the time difference.
I did prefer the overall driving experience from the Evo it just lacked all the other things that I wanted and on normal roads theres nothing in the final result just different ways of gettin it.
Now can we talk about something else!
I`ve done 1300 miles in my P1 now and ive pushed it hard.
There is no way that it turns in as well as my old Evo 5.
It understeers like a ******* in the wet and a dab on the handbrake in the wet is a far more rewarding way to drive it. This induces oversteer which quite frankly i prefer to understeer.
In the Evo you could drive it like a mk 2 escort.......graet fun.
The Evo has bigger tyres which must help.
Any way i do love my new P1 cos it is still bloody quick and in my opinion better to drive on bumpy b roads and just about all surfaces.
The Evo on the track if I was driving anyway would **** off from my P1.
BUT on a typical road where I live Ill take the P1 anytime which is why I bought it.
If I could just reduce the understeer slightly I am 100% happy.
P1 sounds better,looks better and has stacks more class In my opinion.
Personal choice rules again they are all good quick cars but do things a bit differently which means its hard to guage the time difference.
I did prefer the overall driving experience from the Evo it just lacked all the other things that I wanted and on normal roads theres nothing in the final result just different ways of gettin it.
Now can we talk about something else!
17 July 2000, 12:31 AM
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Stef,
I obviously agree with you about the ones I've come up against on track. Straightline wise, I don't see how a car which weighs around 200kg more than an STi, be as quick with the same power. The magazines definitely have tested breathed on ones.
Handling wise, initially an EVO is better and Imprezas do understeer a fair bit. As soon as the geometry is done, it eliminates a huge amount.
Although a P1 is a decent Scoob, it still isn't setup to it's optimum. A few adjustments will make it much better than it already is.
Must agree with the "ability" on track. I'd love to have a go in an EVO on track - see what the differences are and if it is 'cos most of their drivers are crap.
Hopefully they'll be a few at Donington on the 11th.
I obviously agree with you about the ones I've come up against on track. Straightline wise, I don't see how a car which weighs around 200kg more than an STi, be as quick with the same power. The magazines definitely have tested breathed on ones.
Handling wise, initially an EVO is better and Imprezas do understeer a fair bit. As soon as the geometry is done, it eliminates a huge amount.
Although a P1 is a decent Scoob, it still isn't setup to it's optimum. A few adjustments will make it much better than it already is.
Must agree with the "ability" on track. I'd love to have a go in an EVO on track - see what the differences are and if it is 'cos most of their drivers are crap.
Hopefully they'll be a few at Donington on the 11th.
17 July 2000, 12:49 AM
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Stef,
I'll try to put this in a way where I avoid complimenting you or your knowledge of race tracks in general. (It is completely against my religion to accept that you are an extremely adept driver thru Donnington, I am a man after all)
I would say that it is <B>VERY</B> unlikely that you are to face an Evo driver on track or road that drives with the same level of determination and fearlessness (a subjective word) as you do. You know the track extremely well and you are always willing to <I>push</I> the car much further than any normal person may do. If I was to buy an Evo vi and take it thru to donnington, you would be better on track than I and unfortunately it would would reflect on the car, however untrue this may be.
It is generally known (thru motoring journals, so I have no experience on the matter, frankly) that the Evo is faster in a straight line and corners better.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but in theory, shouldnt this make the <I>quicker</I> car on track?
I'll try to put this in a way where I avoid complimenting you or your knowledge of race tracks in general. (It is completely against my religion to accept that you are an extremely adept driver thru Donnington, I am a man after all)
I would say that it is <B>VERY</B> unlikely that you are to face an Evo driver on track or road that drives with the same level of determination and fearlessness (a subjective word) as you do. You know the track extremely well and you are always willing to <I>push</I> the car much further than any normal person may do. If I was to buy an Evo vi and take it thru to donnington, you would be better on track than I and unfortunately it would would reflect on the car, however untrue this may be.
It is generally known (thru motoring journals, so I have no experience on the matter, frankly) that the Evo is faster in a straight line and corners better.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but in theory, shouldnt this make the <I>quicker</I> car on track?
17 July 2000, 10:37 AM
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Aarron.
I dont know why this topic bothers you so much. I think it is fantastic. Informative, opinionated and enjoyable to read. I like hearing about everyones experience. Especially if, like me, you are planning on buying a new car.
Cem
[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 17-07-2000).]
I dont know why this topic bothers you so much. I think it is fantastic. Informative, opinionated and enjoyable to read. I like hearing about everyones experience. Especially if, like me, you are planning on buying a new car.
Cem
[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 17-07-2000).]
17 July 2000, 11:28 AM
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Craig.
I'm just trying to clarify the situation.
Some people on here are saying that the Scoob doesn't stand a chance against an EVO.
In MY experience on track I've yet to see an EVO driven in a manner which would support this argument.
Your STi is quicker than my car, so the argument must be even worse when comparing an EVO with an STi.
The only reasons for this could be that either a) ALL the EVO drivers are driving very sensibly, and none are pushing their car (so why buy and wear all the racing gear?
) or b) they are not much quicker than Scoobs in the first place.
I guess the only way to tell is to use the same driver, but unless someone has actually owned both and timed themselves......
This only relates to the track of course.
I have never really seen an EVO perform on the road.
A friend of mine who's EVO VI blew-up at Cadwell has just taken delivery of an RS Sprint. Perhaps I should have a go....
Stef.
PS Those of you that are bored with this stuff, go and play Colin McRae Rally or something! Sheeeesh!
I'm just trying to clarify the situation.
Some people on here are saying that the Scoob doesn't stand a chance against an EVO.
In MY experience on track I've yet to see an EVO driven in a manner which would support this argument.
Your STi is quicker than my car, so the argument must be even worse when comparing an EVO with an STi.
The only reasons for this could be that either a) ALL the EVO drivers are driving very sensibly, and none are pushing their car (so why buy and wear all the racing gear?
) or b) they are not much quicker than Scoobs in the first place.I guess the only way to tell is to use the same driver, but unless someone has actually owned both and timed themselves......
This only relates to the track of course.
I have never really seen an EVO perform on the road.
A friend of mine who's EVO VI blew-up at Cadwell has just taken delivery of an RS Sprint. Perhaps I should have a go....
Stef.
PS Those of you that are bored with this stuff, go and play Colin McRae Rally or something! Sheeeesh!
18 July 2000, 01:49 PM
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Cem.
Bloody hell mate, steady on! (cheques in the post! ).
Whilst I agree that I am fairly dedicated on track, I would have thought that at least 1 EVO owner was the same? I mean, they nearly all wear race overalls, boots and everything!
Seriously though, I do not believe that there is not one EVO driver on track who does not push his car as hard as I do. At my last session at Snett', a number of us were undertaken on a bend by a silver EVO VI (a move that caused him to feel the 'Steffy Wrath' when he came in! ). Following this incident, I remained up his jacksy for a couple of laps. He was very clearly driving as hard as he could, and I was taping it all as well. He also happened to be wearing full race gear!!!!
I'm still not convinced the EVO is quicker than a Scoob, but until I've driven one it's just an observation based on track days.
Anyhow, I will be driving more cautiously since my 'incident' so we'll see how I fare next time.
I'm hoping to get my mate and his RS Sprint to Donno on the 11th, and he's said I can have a go.
At least I'll be able to offer a fair comparison then.
Stef.
Bloody hell mate, steady on! (cheques in the post!
).Whilst I agree that I am fairly dedicated on track, I would have thought that at least 1 EVO owner was the same? I mean, they nearly all wear race overalls, boots and everything!
Seriously though, I do not believe that there is not one EVO driver on track who does not push his car as hard as I do. At my last session at Snett', a number of us were undertaken on a bend by a silver EVO VI (a move that caused him to feel the 'Steffy Wrath' when he came in!
). Following this incident, I remained up his jacksy for a couple of laps. He was very clearly driving as hard as he could, and I was taping it all as well. He also happened to be wearing full race gear!!!! I'm still not convinced the EVO is quicker than a Scoob, but until I've driven one it's just an observation based on track days.
Anyhow, I will be driving more cautiously since my 'incident' so we'll see how I fare next time.
I'm hoping to get my mate and his RS Sprint to Donno on the 11th, and he's said I can have a go.
At least I'll be able to offer a fair comparison then.
Stef.
19 July 2000, 04:53 AM
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Blow dog
Not sure how the EVO is regarded as faster in a straight line than an STI. When Top Gear has a STD read STD EVO from Warrenders, not the modified Ralliart Test cars, the P1 proved quicker to 60 and 100. Interestingly at speeds above 90-100 the P1 pulled away. I know the P1 has better aerodynamics at this speed than a std STI, but I'm sure the STI is as quick
Cant comment on bends though.
Jonathan
Not sure how the EVO is regarded as faster in a straight line than an STI. When Top Gear has a STD read STD EVO from Warrenders, not the modified Ralliart Test cars, the P1 proved quicker to 60 and 100. Interestingly at speeds above 90-100 the P1 pulled away. I know the P1 has better aerodynamics at this speed than a std STI, but I'm sure the STI is as quick
Cant comment on bends though.
Jonathan
19 July 2000, 12:15 PM
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Hi Stef
Even this won't do it mate..
Unless you have the ability to take a car totally consistently to its absolute limit, and test many different lines trough a bend, you cannot be sure.
Tyres also play the biggest part (at this level of car) in track performance. Even two different makes of road tyre will have a hugely different performance level.
Track time. If you were talking about two proffesional drivers who are therefore of fairly similar standards (a totally different world to the average driver) then track time would have a slightly lesser effect on the performace of the car / driver combination. It would still have an effect but not as much.
Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the case at a track day. The level of driving could be anything from pro to granny.
The car is not the limiting factor.
Cheers
Simon
Even this won't do it mate..
Unless you have the ability to take a car totally consistently to its absolute limit, and test many different lines trough a bend, you cannot be sure.
Tyres also play the biggest part (at this level of car) in track performance. Even two different makes of road tyre will have a hugely different performance level.
Track time. If you were talking about two proffesional drivers who are therefore of fairly similar standards (a totally different world to the average driver) then track time would have a slightly lesser effect on the performace of the car / driver combination. It would still have an effect but not as much.
Unfortunately this is unlikely to be the case at a track day. The level of driving could be anything from pro to granny.
The car is not the limiting factor.
Cheers
Simon
19 July 2000, 01:35 PM
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Simon.
God, you're such a stickler!!
We could go on about tyres and everything for ages, but he's got a factory EVO and I've got a Scoob with loads less power. I know it takes time to learn a cars capabilities, but I'm sure after a few laps I'll be able to gauge the differences between the two cars. Hopefully there'll be plenty of other EVO's there as well.
Anyhow, as soon as my car's run in, we're off to a private road somewhere!
Stef.
God, you're such a stickler!!
We could go on about tyres and everything for ages, but he's got a factory EVO and I've got a Scoob with loads less power. I know it takes time to learn a cars capabilities, but I'm sure after a few laps I'll be able to gauge the differences between the two cars. Hopefully there'll be plenty of other EVO's there as well.
Anyhow, as soon as my car's run in, we're off to a private road somewhere!
Stef.
19 July 2000, 04:53 PM
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LOL @ Stef
You're just not going to listen are you?
OK mate, you're dead right. I'm sorry
Regards
Simon de (Hasn't been doing this for very long, so bows to Stef's considerable experience and skill) Banke
PS. Love you!
You're just not going to listen are you?
OK mate, you're dead right. I'm sorry
Regards
Simon de (Hasn't been doing this for very long, so bows to Stef's considerable experience and skill
) BankePS. Love you!
19 July 2000, 04:58 PM
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This thread in a nutshell.......
My car's better than yours
Not it isn't
Yes it is
Not it isn't
Yes it is
No it isn't..........
Repeat to fade with odd chorus of
Depend who's driving
Yawn
Geezer
P.S. You can substitute the first line with anything e.g. My d1cks bigger than yours.......
My car's better than yours
Not it isn't
Yes it is
Not it isn't
Yes it is
No it isn't..........
Repeat to fade with odd chorus of
Depend who's driving
Yawn
Geezer
P.S. You can substitute the first line with anything e.g. My d1cks bigger than yours.......
19 July 2000, 11:54 PM
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Cem.
I wanna ride in that!
Simon.
No, it is I that am truly sorry. You are the god of all gods and I kneel before you now in the hope of redemption!
Seriously though, I am simply stating my experiences on track, they are neither right or wrong but they are what happened.
Neither is it an 'I'm a better driver' issue, as I do not consider myself to be anything other than enthusiastic. I still have oodles to learn both on and off the track.
Anyway, back to the EVO vs IMPREZA issue...the current cream of each are taking part in the WRC, and the Scoob is winning, so it's better.....for now!
Stef.
I wanna ride in that!
Simon.
No, it is I that am truly sorry. You are the god of all gods and I kneel before you now in the hope of redemption!
Seriously though, I am simply stating my experiences on track, they are neither right or wrong but they are what happened.
Neither is it an 'I'm a better driver' issue, as I do not consider myself to be anything other than enthusiastic. I still have oodles to learn both on and off the track.
Anyway, back to the EVO vs IMPREZA issue...the current cream of each are taking part in the WRC, and the Scoob is winning, so it's better.....for now!
Stef.
20 July 2000, 08:19 AM
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It'd be interesting for Simon to get his hands on something like an STi with sorted suspension and decent wheels tyres. Like Morays, maybe?
It's hard to make judgements on drivers abilities on track sometimes 'cos other isues are involved, ie, worried about what they may be doing to the car, being complete pussies etc.
A few owners of EVOs I've spoken have bought their cars without even test driving, buying on the hype. I don't quite understand how you can do that, but people do. They then think/know that they've got THE fastest car around, take it on track and don't even get to 70% of its limits.
I think it's without doubt that Stef is one of the quicker road drivers, especially at Donington. And I certainly don't fancy my chances if he's got slicks on!
An EVO is probably/definitely the better handling car as std, but a UK/WRX/STi Scoob is it's equal with minor handling mods. And the STis normally having a minor straghtline advantage.
But I may be talking rubbish
It's hard to make judgements on drivers abilities on track sometimes 'cos other isues are involved, ie, worried about what they may be doing to the car, being complete pussies
etc.A few owners of EVOs I've spoken have bought their cars without even test driving, buying on the hype. I don't quite understand how you can do that, but people do. They then think/know that they've got THE fastest car around, take it on track and don't even get to 70% of its limits.
I think it's without doubt that Stef is one of the quicker road drivers, especially at Donington. And I certainly don't fancy my chances if he's got slicks on!
An EVO is probably/definitely the better handling car as std, but a UK/WRX/STi Scoob is it's equal with minor handling mods. And the STis normally having a minor straghtline advantage.
But I may be talking rubbish
20 July 2000, 12:23 PM
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Stef
Whilst I am flattered, I am humbled by your godliness, and would only desire to touch the hem of your driving shoes, should you so wish hehe
You made a good point, the Top of the Tree of each are being hammered to the limit over all sorts of terrain by some of the best drivers in the world and the scoob is winning. This is a TRUE representation of the ailities of these cars when taken to the very extremes of the rules, etc.
I was not digging at you particularly, only what evidence you were using to come to your conclusions. You say "I am simply stating my experiences on track", but you weren't SIMPLY stating that, you were stating that EVO's aren't faster than scoobs BECAUSE of that.
Also you say it's not an 'I'm a better driver' thing. But I happen to think that the reason you whooped serious EVO **** on these days is very much that you are a better driver.
I take your point that they were wearing race suits etc, but there are some right pillocks who own race suits (I should know!).
I've driven over 100 scoobs on the very limit, I would guess that 50 of them were UKs. Without doubt, every one of them was slower than any of the EVO's I have driven.
I also know that, at Donington, I saw scoobies exiting corners at speeds differing by as much as 15MPH!! (or more in some places). So why should the EVO's have been on the limit.
I'm not labouring this because I think it's important or anything. Mainly for the same reasons as you, it's a laugh and it's interesting. But you should accept the following as absolute truth..
"A skilled driver in an ordinary car will often outperform exotica driven by ordinary people."
There are obviously degrees of this also.
Accept the fact that you are going to overtake people in faster cars merely because you are willing to give it death, you know the track, you know the car, and you're not bad behind the wheel!
C-ya
Simon
Whilst I am flattered, I am humbled by your godliness, and would only desire to touch the hem of your driving shoes, should you so wish
heheYou made a good point, the Top of the Tree of each are being hammered to the limit over all sorts of terrain by some of the best drivers in the world and the scoob is winning. This is a TRUE representation of the ailities of these cars when taken to the very extremes of the rules, etc.
I was not digging at you particularly, only what evidence you were using to come to your conclusions. You say "I am simply stating my experiences on track", but you weren't SIMPLY stating that, you were stating that EVO's aren't faster than scoobs BECAUSE of that.
Also you say it's not an 'I'm a better driver' thing. But I happen to think that the reason you whooped serious EVO **** on these days is very much that you are a better driver.
I take your point that they were wearing race suits etc, but there are some right pillocks who own race suits (I should know!
).I've driven over 100 scoobs on the very limit, I would guess that 50 of them were UKs. Without doubt, every one of them was slower than any of the EVO's I have driven.
I also know that, at Donington, I saw scoobies exiting corners at speeds differing by as much as 15MPH!! (or more in some places). So why should the EVO's have been on the limit.
I'm not labouring this because I think it's important or anything. Mainly for the same reasons as you, it's a laugh and it's interesting. But you should accept the following as absolute truth..
"A skilled driver in an ordinary car will often outperform exotica driven by ordinary people."
There are obviously degrees of this also.
Accept the fact that you are going to overtake people in faster cars merely because you are willing to give it death, you know the track, you know the car, and you're not bad behind the wheel!
C-ya
Simon
20 July 2000, 02:05 PM
#90
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Craig,
Simon's already driven my car... it was a while ago now thoug and I have changed a few things since.
He drove the car on standard suspension with the PS bump-steer-ectomy... he seemed to like it at the time.
I still run standard wheels with good tyres, even today.
A second drive is on the cards at the mo, we are just waiting for some decent scooby weather (rain).
Simon's already driven my car... it was a while ago now thoug and I have changed a few things since.
He drove the car on standard suspension with the PS bump-steer-ectomy... he seemed to like it at the time.
I still run standard wheels with good tyres, even today.
A second drive is on the cards at the mo, we are just waiting for some decent scooby weather (rain).