911

It's not quite that simple. (as ever)

The Blue Book gives all the MSA govening rules. This is a minimum guide.
A 2 litre block and a 2.5 block are seen as the 'same'. ie Subaru, flat 4, and most importantly it sits in exactly the same place in the engine bay. Moving engine position is a no-no.
The Race Day scrutineer will be ok. If it were a flat 6 from Subaru you would be re-classed.
The care needs to be taken when looking at any particular Championship Regs which may be very specific. Some sprint classes are for 'stock' specification cars with very minimum mods, ie wheel width can be 1'' wider, but no more, no wheel arch extentions (bad news for Mini's) etc.
THEN there are special cases...In my class when saloons and sports cars were as one, special 'approval' was obtained by a competitor for a Dax 4x4 with a Rover (based) V8.
Dax never made on them then. The MSA state the class is 'Road going modified' ie production cars with over 2000 units per year.

Tricky game Hill climb and Sprints.

The EVO artical on Shelsley Walsh was very good and couldn't cover all the deep details. I raced at that meeting, and it really was special to be there let alone be part of the 'action'.

Finaly, a bog standard Scooby is cr@p on a sprint/hill climb against the purpose modified cars now in the classes.(don't I know).

good luck,
911

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

octane booster or any fuel additives are not allowd

David_Wallis

paul, seen the light?? nah..

Just offering my opinion to 911.. I also wouldnt use a td06.. id use something faster spooling.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Noise is certainly going to be a fun one with my car, might have to swap my exhaust for Pat's new Laminar Flow design as well has plumb the external wastegate either into the system or have it silenced and not being able to run ALS or SLS could be a pain

David_Wallis

Id certainly like to have a go at the harewood hill climb in my car..

911

Then I'll see you there next year!
Fab hill, great spot and not to far (expensive) to get the Sti too(I drive to the tracks and back, no trailers).
The record holder is an EVO David, and I've seen him drive it.............ballistic.

So, hill climbing is like 2/3 of TOTB, part drags and part handling.

Thinking about it though I don't want any more competition, there is enough around already, so stay in your own backyard!

911

SPEN555

Harewood is his backyard lol!

When is the Harewood hillclimb? Is there a website for it? Wouldn't mind going along to watch.

Damian.

Houghton

iTrader: (1)

I realise this is probably a 'piece of string' question, but what sort of fuel consumption figures should I prepare for? I'm currently getting 23 mpg from 2.0 as daily driver and about half that on track.

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

http://www.harewoodhill.co.uk/

SPEN555

Cheers Tim,

Sorry 4 thread diversion.

Damian.

AndrewC

I've driven Harewood in my car

911

Yes, yes, I know Wallis' back yard is Harewood, just tired fending off (with mixed results) other fast(er) cars!onder2:

We should have a Harewood Invasion and duff-up those EVO upstarts!

No, stick to the drag racing...please.

911

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Tim W, I have the Blue books (all of them) if you need 'em.

F

T-uk

Tim,

I though you had a SMG/Lateral build underway a while back? , open deck 2.2 or something iirc??

not on the forums as much as I used to be so sorry if the switch to 2.5 has been covered elsewhere.

911

Car prep to the Blue Book is real easy, but some say that a 6 point roll cage will be MANDATORY for 2005.
So, a sticker on the ignition switch, yellow tape on the neg lead of the battery, a time strut, and a License/helmet/overalls, and your racing!

911

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Harewood here we come.

May be someone could start a group buy for applications to enter.

Graham I might try a day at Harewood next year.

Mark A

911

We might also as the Championship next year will include Harewood (Leaders) and it will be good to break the 3 Midland Hills routine.
Wife wants us to do a Sprint Series too, but I'm not so sure.

focusing on 1)Brownie points collecting 2) getting the engine parts 3) preying for my gearbox unless I really go for it and get a 6 speeder while my box is in great condition!

Then the 2.5 will be looming on the horizon; but not this year! I think Le Mans does Harewood on occations too.
Saw Carman (Rob) at Prescott looking miserable. Shouldn't ever have sold that car!
(I should have bought it..)

911

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately I've never had a 2.2 build in the offing.

My first plan, a little over 2 years ago, was to build a 2 litre from standard parts that had received a little bit of fettling. I was going to have a set of stock rods shot peened, have the crowns of a set of sti 4 pistons keronite coated, the crank polished and then all the rotating parts balanced and installed in an Sti 7 block on which I was going to put a set of lightly breathed on Sti 4 heads with 98 WRC spec cams. All of this would have gone in my car as it was (Link ECU, MD304 turbo, HKS Manifold, HKS FMIC etc)....

Then feature creep started, sometimes knowing Pat (Herborn) and Mark (Lateral Performance) can become very expensive

A Pectel T6 came my way through Pat at a price I could afford so building something deserving of that ECU became a priority.

I talked long and hard with Mark about building various strong engines including 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.33 and 2.5 but the costs were a little bit scarey, by that time an N/A 2.5 had been through my hands and ended up in Pat's legacy and the EJ257's had started appearing on the scene. Mark had bought a few in so we looked at that...and so the build began, slowly...

What I have now is:

EJ257 short engine which has seen it's bores honed to give 1 thou clearance for each piston, but is otherwise standard *
ARP headstuds *
RCMS Oil Pump *
SMG modified Sti 4 heads with 98 WRC cams
Vernier Cam pulleys *
Kevlar Cam Belt from Cord
Firefox's old baffled sump
5kg Billet flywheel from Danny Fisher, but originally from Mark
Andy F's old inlet manifold from Pavlo
Cord built fuel rails

*Parts from Lateral

The long engine was put together for me by Autosportif for very reasonable money in stupid quick time (it was ready in 4 days, and only took that long because I had to wait for the cam belt!) and is now in the car mated to my original UK 5 speed...naturally I changed my mind about the sump and have an ARC one waiting to be modified (for the HKS manifold) before it can go on.

I've retained my HKS manifold, but the rest of the bits have been sold, I now have a Lateral Intercooler and radiator combo, a Lateral Garrett Turbo kit (up-pipe, downpipe and turbo), a Turbonetics Racegate external wastegate, 740cc Nismo injectors, SX Fuel Reg and a Lateral paddle clutch.

Once the engine has been run in I'll be fitting the ARC sump and an '04 UK Sti 6 speed which I've got waiting to go in.

Work has stalled on the car because I was working on it down at Em's house using her garage, unfortunately she had to move and we no longer have a garage, so the car is mothballed in a barn down at my folks.

The next big job is thw wiring loom for the Pectel.

Target is for 450/400 (where have we heard that before...) on low boost for longevity, with a very fat torque curve

911

Great project!
911

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

u should do the jersey hill climb! much more challenging!

T-uk

thanks tim,

must be thinking of another tim

911

Better still, do both of the Islands....

First saw hill climbing there on hols, and look where that got me.

911

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Tim King perhaps? Steve built him a 2.2 IIRC

mikeesingh

iTrader: (3)

yep Tim K has a 2.2 with a gt30 turbo, which is running now, his is a similar spec to mine but im running a smaller turbo

mikee

David_Wallis

christian, wasnt aware you had been to harewood?

And its very close to me, unlike jersey!

David

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

What would peoples choice of turbo be for the 2.5 ?

1. Sensible money and tractable.
2. Massive power and money no object

Mark

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

1. TD05/06 20G or an Aigin special
2. A bigger Aigin special

David_Wallis

Mark,

Dont bother with a Td05-06 on a 257 would be my suggestion, if the internals are done then I would put the turbo steven (p20spd) has on his..

Goes Very Very well..

richto

Any comments on how the Deadbolt Racing TD06-20G Zilla ported / coated Turbo would compare to the Garret / IHI Hybrid from Roger Clark motor sport that BRD prefer on the EJ257?

http://www.deadboltspeed.com/zilla.html

john banks

I think the TD06-20G could be quite good. Pavlo has a bigger version of the Zilla and it surges a bit low down, but has put him in the 10s

I've got the iON P450 which is quite similar I believe to the RCMS Garrett/IHI hybrid. On the same octane on the EJ257 it only makes 10% more power than even the TD05-20G and does have 400 RPM higher boost threshold. I switched because it looked like Harvey was getting 30% more power at Well Lane than my 20G at Star. When I tried to compare my car with Harvey's at Prosport my car could not be read because it slipped on the rollers, don't think his gripped too well either. Going off Delta Dash figures and how they compare with Star rollers, with a rich and cautious map designed for daily use with no octane booster, that won't det with a slightly dodgy tank of Optimax on a hot day, I can get about 430-440 BHP out of it running 1.3 bar at peak power at about 6000 RPM. It is rated as a 450 BHP turbo. With more octane or cams, on other rollers it could probably do 500 BHP, I think with methanol I got it to about 490 BHP when the engine let go - I was running 1.7 bar mid, 1.5-1.6 at the top and lots of timing - a piston cracked and the headgaskets went with not much detonation.

The TD05-20G is probably the best choice for standard internals on an EJ257 with a solid 400 BHP with so little lag it is hilarious as a road car, 1 bar by 2500 RPM. For a built motor I would skip the bolt ons and go straight for the rotated GT30R in the proper Garrett housings with an external wastegate. That is really what I should have done, but I overestimated the Garrett/IHI hybrid.