View Poll Results: Should cats owners be responsible for their cat's actions?
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Should cat owners be legally responsible for thier pets actions?
21 June 2004, 01:27 PM
#181
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Cobblers, people just can't be bothered to train cats (or take responsibility for them it would seem). They are intelligent creatures and it is perfectly feasible to train them using food as an incentive, exactly the same as a dog. Did you see the "Intelleginet Pets" program on the BBC?? A woman had trained her cat to sit next to her and press the keys on the piano. A cats natural curiosity is actually and advantage to training it and if it knows it will be rewarded then it learns to repeat the behaviour.
If you have never owned a cat or grown up with your parents owning a cat then you haven't got a clue what they are like to keep or how the react to being treated in different ways
21 June 2004, 01:30 PM
#183
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Originally Posted by ajm
This doesn't make his cats better, it makes him a more responsible owner than you. The cats are well looked after, safe from harm outside and do not inflict any misery on his neighbours.
21 June 2004, 01:30 PM
#184
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Oatcake, from the feline advisory groups website.
That says enough for me. I would rather get rid of my pets than risk them suffering. OK I'm sure your cats are fine indoors, probably since kittens, but for you to say all other owners who let their cats roam freely are 'irresponsible lazy barstewards' is a bit much, especially in light of the above information.
Do you live in a city btw?
But on the down side, indoor cats are also more likely to suffer psychologically and develop behavioural problems than those allowed outside.
Do you live in a city btw?
21 June 2004, 01:32 PM
#186
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Originally Posted by **************
You really don't know anything about cats do you? Dogs are trainable becasue they will take food as a bribe. Cats will not take food as a bribe, they will just go off and catch their own, they have no willingness/desire to take food as a bribe and to be trained.
If you have never owned a cat or grown up with your parents owning a cat then you haven't got a clue what they are like to keep or how the react to being treated in different ways
If you have never owned a cat or grown up with your parents owning a cat then you haven't got a clue what they are like to keep or how the react to being treated in different ways
21 June 2004, 01:32 PM
#187
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Originally Posted by K9VYN
why do you, Olly K and Oatcake presume that my cats cause misery to my neighbours? - i've had no complaints!
Because you'd scoff in their faces, claiming there isn't anything you could do about it, it wasn't breaking the law, etc etc. How would complaining help? Would you alter your or your cats' behaviour? No, precisely.
21 June 2004, 01:34 PM
#189
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Originally Posted by **************
You can not train a cat to be walked on a lead like a dog, they are not as domesticated as a dog and will not obey orders like a dog. Cats are independant animals and use humans for food and affection becasue they have learnt its in their best interests to do so. However a cat will only do what it wants to do and go where it wants to go, they can not be trained to go on leads for walks and do what you want them to do.
ALL my cats will walk on the lead. It started when I moved houses with them and used to put them on the lead to walk them round the garden to get used to their new borders. They're not ecstatic, but they don't feign strangulation! 
Indeed, when one of mine was run over, he refused to go outside at all unless he was on the lead. I used to take him round the fields and let him off the lead - he'd freeze, until the lead was put back on, then he'd mooch about happily.
They're not normally on a lead, though it has to be said.
As for defecating in neighbours' gardens, yes, they did do this until I created an area at the back of the garden for them to go into. Now that is where they go. I refuse to have a litter tray in the house, unless it's been hissing with rain all day and they can't go outside.
On the obedience level, mine are very obedient. They know a fair few commands including "Shh!", "No", "Snug down", "AH!" etc and have never been up curtains or on worktops.
And a nice story to end.
On Sunday my other half and I were upstairs browsing a home furnishing catalogue (how terribly domesticated...) when Jamie came running upstairs, sat down in front of us and miaoued very pointedly at me. It was different to his whinge-miaou, feed-me-miaou, fuss-me-miaou and greeting-miaou. He then continued to miaou urgently at me and kept looking out of the window.I got up and looked out to find all the rabbits had escaped out of the run into the garden. I ran downstairs to put them all away again. Jamie meanwhile had hopped onto the windowsill until I was outside and had 2 of them back in the run and then sauntered downstairs with Steve.
He does guard the rabbits very well.
ETA that all my cats will come to a whistle - it's how I call them in at night. They were trained from kittens in that evey time I put food in the bowl, I'd whistle. They soon associated whistling with food and now when it becomes dark, I'll go outside, whistle and within minutes they are all there. They also stay in overnight, every night.
Last edited by Mice_Elf; 21 June 2004 at 01:39 PM.
21 June 2004, 01:34 PM
#190
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Keeping a cat permanently indoors away from all the potential hazards outside may sound the ideal solution, however, the benefits of safety need to be weighed up against the needs of that particular cat. Some of the potential problems are listed below:
* Behavioural problems - Cats in the USA have a much higher incidence of anxiety-related problems such as urine marking than cats in the UK , possibly because British cats are allowed out more whereas in the USA they are more commonly kept permanently indoors. There are many stress-linked psychological problems in indoor cats.
* Fear of change - Indoor cats may become over-reactive to changes within their small territory (the house) and become unable to cope with novelty, be it people or objects or new smells. It can be difficult to introduce a new cat (or even a new person) to your cat's restricted territory - there is no neutral ground to retire to for either party.
* Obesity - A lack of exercise can lead to weight problems.
* Overdependence - A solitary indoor cat will rely on its owner to provide stimulation, companionship and exercise.
* Cleaning litter trays - A chore those with outdoor cats don't have to do.
* Damage to the house - Your furniture and carpets may suffer from being scratched excessively. Cats may also expend energy climbing, jumping and generally whizzing around the house in mad moments - again damage can occur.
* Keeping doors/windows shut or covered so cats cannot escape can be impossible with children around.
* Household hazards - An active indoor cat will explore crevices that an outdoor cat would probably not bother to investigate. Boredom and curiosity can be a dangerous combination. Washing machines, toilets, medicines, cleaners, small holes, exposed wires and wobbly shelving are all particular hazards for curious kittens. While outside, cats will often nibble grass or herbs. If there is no access to this they may turn to indoor plants, some of which are poisonous.
* Escape - An indoor cat that gets out may be disorientated and will not have any street skills. Escape from a high rise flat could be fatal. The cat may also be highly stressed to find itself suddenly in an environment which it has no experience of.
* Frustration/boredom - Cats may develop behaviour problems if they are stressed by the lack of opportunity to express their normal behavioural repertoire. They also have the problem of being unable to escape from a situation or another cat which they find difficult to deal with.
* Behavioural problems - Cats in the USA have a much higher incidence of anxiety-related problems such as urine marking than cats in the UK , possibly because British cats are allowed out more whereas in the USA they are more commonly kept permanently indoors. There are many stress-linked psychological problems in indoor cats.
* Fear of change - Indoor cats may become over-reactive to changes within their small territory (the house) and become unable to cope with novelty, be it people or objects or new smells. It can be difficult to introduce a new cat (or even a new person) to your cat's restricted territory - there is no neutral ground to retire to for either party.
* Obesity - A lack of exercise can lead to weight problems.
* Overdependence - A solitary indoor cat will rely on its owner to provide stimulation, companionship and exercise.
* Cleaning litter trays - A chore those with outdoor cats don't have to do.
* Damage to the house - Your furniture and carpets may suffer from being scratched excessively. Cats may also expend energy climbing, jumping and generally whizzing around the house in mad moments - again damage can occur.
* Keeping doors/windows shut or covered so cats cannot escape can be impossible with children around.
* Household hazards - An active indoor cat will explore crevices that an outdoor cat would probably not bother to investigate. Boredom and curiosity can be a dangerous combination. Washing machines, toilets, medicines, cleaners, small holes, exposed wires and wobbly shelving are all particular hazards for curious kittens. While outside, cats will often nibble grass or herbs. If there is no access to this they may turn to indoor plants, some of which are poisonous.
* Escape - An indoor cat that gets out may be disorientated and will not have any street skills. Escape from a high rise flat could be fatal. The cat may also be highly stressed to find itself suddenly in an environment which it has no experience of.
* Frustration/boredom - Cats may develop behaviour problems if they are stressed by the lack of opportunity to express their normal behavioural repertoire. They also have the problem of being unable to escape from a situation or another cat which they find difficult to deal with.
21 June 2004, 01:35 PM
#191
why do you, Olly K and Oatcake presume that my cats cause misery to my neighbours? - i've had no complaints!
(all in bad taste I assure you)
It's not just the next door neighbour, it's the whole vincinity of the house where the cat lives!
Last edited by ALi-B; 21 June 2004 at 01:39 PM.
21 June 2004, 01:35 PM
#192
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
Because you'd scoff in their faces, claiming there isn't anything you could do about it, it wasn't breaking the law, etc etc. How would complaining help? Would you alter your or your cats' behaviour? No, precisely.
21 June 2004, 01:36 PM
#193
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Originally Posted by K9VYN
would i try, yes. would it make a difference, maybe not! would i appologise.. yes. don't presume to know me or my attitude!
21 June 2004, 01:36 PM
#194
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Bravo2zero,
Sorry m8 but I've never heard such crap in my life.
Keeping a cat inside and never letting it out is not caging it and its not cruel, ask a vet.
A cat can be trained to walk on a lead.
A cat can be trained to use a litter tray inside the house.
A cat can be trained to respond to command from its owner, just like a dog.
How do I know the above? I know because MY two cats do all the above.
Like I've said before cat owners who turf their cats out when they go to work, go to bed are just lazy.
If any cat owner wants their cats to do any of the above, like my cats do, simply spent time with the cat and train it like you would a dog. You only get out what YOU put in.
oatcake
Sorry m8 but I've never heard such crap in my life.
Keeping a cat inside and never letting it out is not caging it and its not cruel, ask a vet.
A cat can be trained to walk on a lead.
A cat can be trained to use a litter tray inside the house.
A cat can be trained to respond to command from its owner, just like a dog.
How do I know the above? I know because MY two cats do all the above.
Like I've said before cat owners who turf their cats out when they go to work, go to bed are just lazy.
If any cat owner wants their cats to do any of the above, like my cats do, simply spent time with the cat and train it like you would a dog. You only get out what YOU put in.
oatcake
As for putting a cat on a lead what tosh. You must have some very special cats
or ones that are made to do something they don't like. I have never known anyone who owns a cat to have successfully get the cat to willingly walk on a lead.As for keeping them in doors thats a matter of opinion. I don't agree with keeping them in doors. However if somone has a big enough enclosure built then this is slightly differenet to keeping a cat locked up in a house. As Jye said it also depends on the breed of cat.
My cats were never turfed out at bed time or during the day for going to work. They were let out when they wanted to go out and would come back into the house when they wanted to come back in, easliy recognisable by them pawing the door and meowing loudly. Not difficult really nor lazy
21 June 2004, 01:38 PM
#196
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Sometimes they escape the snare...so I can't read the address of their name tags (asumming there IS an address on it)...therefore can't complain....
(all in bad taste I assure you)
It's not just the next door neighbour, it's the whole vincinty of the house where the cat lives!
(all in bad taste I assure you)
It's not just the next door neighbour, it's the whole vincinty of the house where the cat lives!
There's no cat crap in my garden
21 June 2004, 01:42 PM
#198
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K9VYN,
I never said "my cats are better than yours", the point I was trying to get across was that my cats dont suffer for not going outside.
I just want people to know that there is an alternative to letting cats outside.
ajm,
Tell me about the food bill! good job a good friend of mine owns a pet shop
oatcake
I never said "my cats are better than yours", the point I was trying to get across was that my cats dont suffer for not going outside.
I just want people to know that there is an alternative to letting cats outside.
ajm,
Tell me about the food bill! good job a good friend of mine owns a pet shop
oatcake
21 June 2004, 01:43 PM
#199
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Originally Posted by TelBoy
How would you try? In all seriousness?
but perhaps something like...
putting more interesting or attractive objects in my garden etc...
maybe using a trelis to make it more difficult for them to leave the garden (they'd have to be a real menace before i did that)
21 June 2004, 01:46 PM
#200
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My cat is never turfed out. She has a cat flap so she can come and go as she pleases. Ooh how cruel of me to let her do what she wants and not restrain her.
Dogs and cats are completely different. Dogs are very social. They crave attention. Cats are the opposite and like their freedom. Keeping a cat in a house 24/7/365 is just not right.
I suspect that if oatcake fitted a cat flap his cats too would be interested in what is outside as that is their natural habitat.
If they weren't then they have obviously had all natural instinct 'trained' out of them or they are too scared to go into their natural habitat after 8 year sof confinement which is a real shame.
I have now decided to get several more cats and move to Portishead
Dogs and cats are completely different. Dogs are very social. They crave attention. Cats are the opposite and like their freedom. Keeping a cat in a house 24/7/365 is just not right.
I suspect that if oatcake fitted a cat flap his cats too would be interested in what is outside as that is their natural habitat.
If they weren't then they have obviously had all natural instinct 'trained' out of them or they are too scared to go into their natural habitat after 8 year sof confinement which is a real shame.
I have now decided to get several more cats and move to Portishead
Last edited by juan; 21 June 2004 at 01:49 PM.
21 June 2004, 01:46 PM
#201
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Originally Posted by Jye
Mice_Elf, you talk about these 'wild' crazed killers as if the were bl@@dy pets
21 June 2004, 01:47 PM
#202
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With respect, K9VYN, nothing that will make a blind bit of difference then.
That's why you've had no complaints, and why i would consider it futile to knock on any cat-owner's door myself.
That's why you've had no complaints, and why i would consider it futile to knock on any cat-owner's door myself.
21 June 2004, 01:49 PM
#204
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Mice just out of curiosity your cats that go on leads, did you have them as home bred cats from birth? ie you were able to train them from a very young age?
You and oatcake are the only examples of cats successfully being put on leads I have heard of. Any of the ones myself or my parents have had have been untrainable with leads. As soon as you put it on they go nuts to the point where if you don't let them off they will break their necks
You and oatcake are the only examples of cats successfully being put on leads I have heard of. Any of the ones myself or my parents have had have been untrainable with leads. As soon as you put it on they go nuts to the point where if you don't let them off they will break their necks
21 June 2004, 01:49 PM
#205
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Originally Posted by **************
You really don't know anything about cats do you? Dogs are trainable becasue they will take food as a bribe. Cats will not take food as a bribe, they will just go off and catch their own, they have no willingness/desire to take food as a bribe and to be trained.
If you have never owned a cat or grown up with your parents owning a cat then you haven't got a clue what they are like to keep or how the react to being treated in different ways
If you have never owned a cat or grown up with your parents owning a cat then you haven't got a clue what they are like to keep or how the react to being treated in different ways
Our pup was not very food orientated, he was not interested in treats when he was young. So we stopped feeding him food in his bowl and put him on a "Learn to Earn" program, where all the food he ate, he earned by learning something. He ate the same amount as he would have normally, but rather than being able to help himself, he had to earn it.
The same applies to cats, if there is food down for them or they can go out and kill something then they will not be interested in working for you to get the food. Keep you cat in doors for a few days, don't put any food down it and only hand feed it when it does something you want. I suggest you read up on clicker training and or how to teach dog's basic tricks so the poor thing doesn't starve, but a couple of days effort and you will be able to get your cat to sit on command.
21 June 2004, 01:51 PM
#206
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Originally Posted by Oatcake
K9VYN,
I never said "my cats are better than yours", the point I was trying to get across was that my cats dont suffer for not going outside.
I just want people to know that there is an alternative to letting cats outside.
ajm,
Tell me about the food bill! good job a good friend of mine owns a pet shop
oatcake
I never said "my cats are better than yours", the point I was trying to get across was that my cats dont suffer for not going outside.
I just want people to know that there is an alternative to letting cats outside.
ajm,
Tell me about the food bill! good job a good friend of mine owns a pet shop
oatcake
certainly my cats want to go outside, explore and hunt, which to the best of my knowledge is what cat's naturally love to do. who am i to deprive them of that privilige?
but they know they can come back to somewhere warm, where they'll get fed, pampered, cared for and can nap safely and away from danger!
21 June 2004, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't that the whole idea behind domestication?
This is confinement we're talking about which isn't right in my opinion
21 June 2004, 01:54 PM
#209
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Keeping a cat in a house 24/7/365 is just not right.
Cats - Pets for the lazy and selfish.
Deano