StickyMicky

gutted for you, but when your at work, your supposed to work, not buy ****

mr flibble

haven't read the whole thread but.................

I have worked on and written IT usage policies. They have to make you aware that they are monitoring and logging email/internet usage and you have to have signed something to that effect stating you understand the policies. If they haven't brought this to your attention then use the human rights angle if it gets serious. We were always told to cover ourselves regarding policies as the end user could always get us with the human rights angle.

M.

ozzy

AFAIK, you don't have to sign anything. The company need to make you aware of the policies. Unless you sign a written letter stating you object to the policies, then it's assumed you are working under their conditions.

Unfortunately, being in IT I've been involved in documenting evidence against someone who was suspected of surfing **** from our offices. Anything "adult" in nature is a big no-no for companies. Rules are there to protect the company and it's employees.

Personally, I think you deserve a complete bo!!ocking, but whether it's taken further is down to anyone in authority having it in for you.

Don't go deleting things as it'll just look bad and not help your defense in the slightest. Unfortunately ignorance is no defense when it comes to e-mail and one reason why everyone should take responsibility for their own actions.

Stefan

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

We got read the riot act for personal email, my mate got the full works as he did little else if management are to be beleived, some of the content was quite sexual (to his girlfreind), they read the lot and also read all his mates email. They tried to stich him for having an illegal music duplication business being run from his pc to another pc in another room to which was attached an elderely and erratic 4 * cd burner !

Basically he needed to be taken in hand ages ago, he got to a point where he would deliberately just take the p*ss, even though he got what work he was given done to a high standard, they let it slide for years and then nailed him, he ended up jumping before he was pushed which was a shame.

I agree with those that say we are there to work but the odd email or a bit of surfing at lunchtime isnt a problem but people take the p*ss (I did a bit I suppose) and this spoils it for everyone as it gets locked down and nowadays you cant sneeze without it being investigated, was quite amusing being shown old emails, I forwarded one that was headlined 'Mastubation protects against Prostate cancer', I had to explain this to my (female) manager, I pointed out that it was actually a legitimate medical article and she said 'oh really, is it', so I said that yes it was and at that point in time, as far as I was aware I didnt have prostate Cancer !

Luckily I always compose my emails so if push came to shove and my boss did read it I could justify it.

I sometimes think its like people at a hanging, they love a bit of gore regardless of whether its advantageous to get rid of an otherwise good employee, the lad who was ousted from our place certainly needed dealing with but some of the non email/internet using muppets they left dont actually use it cos they dont understand it and are hopeless anyway. Also its like bloody HR departments getting to put all their bullsh1t into practice. I have since joined the Union cos on your own you are vulnerable, unions spend all their time doing this and generally management are a bit over eager and dont know the extent of their powers so can be tied in knots by a good union rep. Then again I hope I will never do anything to need it now I dont email or surf.

Sentence for the originator should be a bollocking and then some additional hours to cover what he owes the company.

Good luck with it, I remember the stress I went through thinking I was going to be implicated in a CD production racket that didnt exist, it wasnt rational but when you have a lot to loose your mind plays tricks on you.

bonkers

At the risk of sounding like HR...

Work email (and for that matter, internet access) is handled by and stored on company servers, it's provided for you to do your work. Most places will tolerate a degree of personal use within certain limits - some spell out those limits, others leave it to common sense.

Never assume anything you do on a computer at work is private.

Never do anything with a work machine that you wouldn't be comfortable telling your boss or shouting across the room.

You goofed old son, it's that simple. Sorry.

Bonkers.

mr flibble

I've worked closely with various IT managers and Directors regarding Policy. I have also been to various seminars and courses on some of the above. Its true you don't have to sign anything, but an employee could turn around and say he never saw **** all about company regulations. Its always best to get them to sign things, then from the companies point of view you have the 'we told you so' proof.

As an employee if you haven't signed anything there is always the 'I didn't know' get out clause.

All Companies and IT Managers/Directors have different views. I personnally think cover your **** as much as you can, get them to sign all policies whether they have agreed or not to them. At least you have proof you made them aware.

M.

Alan C

Without seeing the policies themselves, without knowing what you were told about internet usage VERBATIM at the time you were taken on, and later when the policies were amended and many other details about IT guidelines, HR acceptance of surfing and e-mail usage, then all of this is pretty academic.

What your company does is also important (a bank is different from a retailer) as certain businesses completely rely on their name and reputation. You will find that your company is accountable for ANYTHING downloaded from the internet. If that content is deemed to be inappropriate, and Mavis takes serious offence, then you and the company can be sued. If it is a bank, and they are audited to find that a lot of staff are doing this type of thing in their lunch hour, and it is perceived as being detrimental and grossly negligent to their clients, then the FSA can ultimately take away their banking licence.

If what you say is true about everyone doing it, then your company are walking on a very fine line, and it may not be too long before something hits the fan.

I'm a senior member of our security team that deals with this daily for a very large multinational, and it is taken VERY seriously.

Think about how your company would feel having its name on the front page of the Sun as one of it employers was taken down for KP stuff. What would that do to customer confidence?

NOT taking it seriously is fraught with dangers... plus, you spending a 'few hours' surfing and chatting over e-mail may not seem like too much of a problem. But how many staff are in your business, 200? Multiply your hours surfing per day (I'll be generous and give you 2 hours) by that number, then multiply that by £15 ish PH and tell me that your company finds it OK to pay its staff £6,000 per week to download the 'odd bit of personal stuff'. Or another way.. this company employs 5 people to surf the net every day....

Now, when every penny counts in staying profitable and ahead of the game, tell me that you wouldn't mind the staff being laid off because the company lost £312,000 in un-productive time...

OK, maybe a little un-scientific, but you get the picture...

Don't get me wrong... I don't know your case, your company and the depth of it pockets.. but £312K in lost time (not direct costs) would hurt anybody. And that's only for a small company of 200 people. Our team deal with 3,500.

That's why it important...

How they deal with it is another matter. We have strict policies that the staff sign. We protect our staff exceedingly well, and we treat them with a lot of respect by stating that they can indeed use the internet for personal surfing, but within agreed and openly published guidelines. Our staff are happy and untroubled by this as they know exactly where they stand.

But there's always the odd one, the temp, that can threaten the credibility of any company... or simply waste thousands of hours..

I haven't been specific and I've been pretty generic, because I, and the rest of us, don't know your circumstances and what your company has in mind... and therefore it is impossible to judge anyone without knowing the facts…

But you shouldn't have downloaded 'Adult' material, that a big no no in today’s legally centric world. As for the odd e-mail to your mates etc.. well that's different and covered in other guidelines, each company is different and reacts in different ways.

If you're happy to do this, apologise as best you can to the right people. Tell them you've had counsel and you know you've done wrong... and it won't happen again. Then politely ask to see the Internet and E-mail usage policies... so you know where you stand on what your company finds acceptable...

After such a long reply, you may not have got anything useful out of this in terms of direct help , but informing you from someone who deals in this area may help you understand some of the reasons behind it all…

I’m happy to help further if you need it…

mr flibble

Alan,

I agree with what you are saying. Lets face it you gotta use some common sense!! Adult material at work you know you are gonna get in the ****!!!!

however,

The Company needs to make its employees aware that they have policies for the above. Its no good b0ll0cking someone for doing something when they have not been made aware that it is potentially wrong.

It would be like me doing 140mph down the M4 in my Scoob, being stopped by the police and banned from driving, even though there was no speed restriction in place, and I was never informed of a speed limit. How the hell would I know that I was in the wrong????

M.

Alan C

Mr M. I agree mate. You'd be surprised how much common can be missing on both sides...

But unfortunately we've only got what's on here to go by, which is not enough.

I did say that we would need to see the policies and other material published by the company. If there isn't any, then the company are on a [fencesit mode]sticky wicket[/fencesit mode] especially if they haven't got anything else to back up their stance.

Plus, and no offence here Jase, I don't know Jase and his past habbits, as things like this do need to be taken into account..

First offence? Regular Internet trouble maker? This does make a difference.

But if a company suddenly wakes up and realises all the crap that could potentially come their way from such libel action, then, swinging into over re-action can be a problem... a company NEEDS good, sensible and up to date policies... no one ever reads them... but it is the only way to protect both the company AND the staff... maybe smaller companies can get away with not having them in such good condition, but large stock market driven companies depend a lot more than they realise on them to keep things on track...

Enron anyone?

gareth123

Alan C - your thinking is only right if the employee works just their contracted time. And who does that? If I'm working 10-12 hour days but only getting paid for 8 of them then I can't see any harm in using the net for a bit of personal use. A bit of common sense is called for on what you use it for, obviously. So the OP trading **** is severely stupid

Jerome

I came close to being sacked from a previous job a while ago - for sending an email to the London office distribution list which contained a very mildly homophobic joke. The dist list contained some US people where the rules are even stricter than the UK. They wanted to sack me on the spot, but I was the only person who knew how to keep this flaky trading system going at that time. It would have cost them a huge amount if they'd sacked me, so I got a final written warning - the slightest transgression after that was the sack.

I am now fairly paranoid about doing non-work related stuff on my work PC:-

-> I never use work email for non-work related reasons - send or receive. I use Hotmail for non-work related emails.

-> I never have a non-work related favourite in my browser, nor type the url in the address bar - for scoobynetting I do a google on "bbs.scoobynet".

-> I flush my cookies/temporary internet files and history regularly.

-> Never keep any non-work related files on my work PC.

-> I'm formal the point of paranoia when writing emails.


At virtually any time, an audit could be done on my work PC and there would be little or no evidence that could lead to a disciplinary. I wait until I get home to do the downloading of massive amounts of deviant ****.

Alan C

Gareth, you're right mate.

I did say my figures were a little un-scientific, as I couldn't figure for the night workers, long shift workers etc.. but it was used to backup my point.

I feel that there is nothing wrong with doing some personal stuff before or after work, lunch time or breaks. This is your time. Our users know this and we are more than happy to let them.. but within the agreed lines...

If they download **** or do stuff against the rules, then they've only themselves to blame.

ProperCharlie

the main thing is, PC usage allows companies to monitor and prove employees non-productive time. most people spend loads of the working day unproductively, but if you are just making coffee or chatting at the photocopier, it's much harder to pin it down. IMO employees should be judged by what they acheive, although i guess what sort of attitude is taken will depend on what sector the employee is in. call centres and the like are very highly regulated. if you drive a van, you get from a - b and who really cares if you drove a bit faster and then spent 15 minutes in the caff?

richs2891

Echo what has been already said, but if the worse does come to the worse and you do get the boot then check your terms and conditions on your contract and any computer usage policies very carefully with a good contract / employment solicitor.
They might cost a few pounds but a good one is worth the weight in gold I had to use one last year whern my ex empolyee tried to fire me for the results of an off the record with the IT manager, who then changed part of the conversation and had a chat with one of the directors and I was suspended. End result I was had my employment terminated for gross misconduct. Succsefully argued via Solicitor that it was not gross misconduct, and work had not followed to the letter its own disaplicary process (very common mistake), And that one of the people involed had blantenty lied and the other one wanted rid of me as I was too much of a threat to his career.
I threatened to take them to a (public) tribunal and make it very public and make its disgressions know publically (job I worked in relied on its repuation for secrecy and security), Offered my old job back, refused and took three years salary instead and a written set referance that if any employee / the compnay deviates from there are penatly clauses combined with it.

If the worse does come to the worse be prepared to fight dirty - its your job / career that will be effected, and you can be sure that you compnay will try to bend the rules as much as possible

Richard

Regacy

What was the outcome of this?
does jase555 still have a job?
It's gone very quiet........

sti555

check out his edited first post

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

At our place the management got my mate for having loads of MP3's on his machine, funny thing is that the MP3's are still on his machine six months later, are they in breach of copyright knowing they are there ?