Having a Bad Day....
22 April 2004, 08:49 AM
#61
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I agree with Simon Lau,
sounds like its a done and dusted affair for them. To be in so much **** and not come begging and pleading to you does seem to speak volumes.
Either they are completly stupid or they really dont want you back!
The whole situation is preposterous in the extreme.
You really need some legal advice as it looks like you could take these jokers to the cleaners!!!!
Then take your story to the Sun, they'll just lap it up and your company would suffer untold bad publicity. (What do they do by way!!???)
You've done nothing wrong, sounds like you're excellent at your job and you wont have any probs finding new employment!!
Good Luck!
sounds like its a done and dusted affair for them. To be in so much **** and not come begging and pleading to you does seem to speak volumes.
Either they are completly stupid or they really dont want you back!
The whole situation is preposterous in the extreme.
You really need some legal advice as it looks like you could take these jokers to the cleaners!!!!
Then take your story to the Sun, they'll just lap it up and your company would suffer untold bad publicity. (What do they do by way!!???)
You've done nothing wrong, sounds like you're excellent at your job and you wont have any probs finding new employment!!
Good Luck!
22 April 2004, 09:02 AM
#62
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Morning,
Er tbh they have been trying to get hold of me on my mobile yesterday, had 20+ missed calls from 10:30 onwards... However I was bed ridden with sickness & worry.
However I sent a note in the day before saying that the only communication I will accept is concerning my employment,in writing only.....
No post as of yet, they still hav'nt returned my personal property even though I have sent in receipts for items purchased
Thanks again for everyones kind comments, will post again when I get some more info
Cheers
Er tbh they have been trying to get hold of me on my mobile yesterday, had 20+ missed calls from 10:30 onwards... However I was bed ridden with sickness & worry.
However I sent a note in the day before saying that the only communication I will accept is concerning my employment,in writing only.....
No post as of yet, they still hav'nt returned my personal property even though I have sent in receipts for items purchased
Thanks again for everyones kind comments, will post again when I get some more info
Cheers
Last edited by sti555; 22 April 2004 at 10:06 PM.
22 April 2004, 09:56 AM
#64
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why are you refusing to speak to them? could this possibly harm your defence later on?
(i.e. "we treid to contact the employee but he refused to speak to us, therefore we assumed that he was unavailable for work")
(i.e. "we treid to contact the employee but he refused to speak to us, therefore we assumed that he was unavailable for work")
22 April 2004, 10:12 AM
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sti555 has been suspended from his duties. Therefore whilst he is still suspended he is not allowed/obligated to help the firm dig themselves out of the crapola. Plus his company appear to have been strict on him complying to the suspension when it suits them, so he cannot be blamed when he is equally strict by refusing to discuss work issues whilst suspended.
Admittedly sti555 won't be currying any favour with the stance he's taken, but sti555 I fully support what you have done.
Admittedly sti555 won't be currying any favour with the stance he's taken, but sti555 I fully support what you have done.
22 April 2004, 12:45 PM
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I think your company are bang out of order in what they've done.. However, I would deem witholding network passwords etc from those with sufficient reason to have them a sackable offence.. Essentially you've been paid to make things secure not to hold the company to ransom..
When in this position I would always insist that all passwords, settings etc be documented and placed in a sealed envelope within the company safe in case of emergencies.. They would have been in this postion if you'd gone under a bus and IMHO you are being negligent not having a route for this information to get to those who reasonably require it...
One of my biggest bug-bears is people setting bios passwords on their work machines.. then buggering off on holiday with an essential doc on their machine.. Minimum written warning on return!
To stand a chance you have to be whiter than white.. Good Luck!
When in this position I would always insist that all passwords, settings etc be documented and placed in a sealed envelope within the company safe in case of emergencies.. They would have been in this postion if you'd gone under a bus and IMHO you are being negligent not having a route for this information to get to those who reasonably require it...
One of my biggest bug-bears is people setting bios passwords on their work machines.. then buggering off on holiday with an essential doc on their machine.. Minimum written warning on return!
To stand a chance you have to be whiter than white.. Good Luck!
22 April 2004, 12:46 PM
#70
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STi555, Don't know you, but NO - ONE deserves this,. they way they have treated you is disgusting. You sound like you'll do fine and get respected elsewhere. IMHO you done what ANY human would have done. Good luck with what ever happens, and at the end of the day, they may have done you a favour. My last company started treating me like crap, I left, doubled my salary and LOVE my new job BIG time.
Good luck and chin up.
Good luck and chin up.
22 April 2004, 02:08 PM
#71
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Oscar,
I'm not withholding any information from them, whilst I'm on suspension they should not be contacting me about any other business issues.
It's not my responsibility to cover there backs whilst I'm off, Prior to this I was actually arranging to document my work as you have described, ultimately it's down to the MD to delegate to protect the business & operations & plan accordingly for my or any other employees absence.
However under normal circumstances I would'nt mind at all & would co-operate fully with any failover plan.
Bravo,
Have txt my boss this morning explaining I'm ill & just tried to call an hour ago but no answer....
f1,
Ummn just hope my situation sorts itself out just as well
Cheers
I'm not withholding any information from them, whilst I'm on suspension they should not be contacting me about any other business issues.
It's not my responsibility to cover there backs whilst I'm off, Prior to this I was actually arranging to document my work as you have described, ultimately it's down to the MD to delegate to protect the business & operations & plan accordingly for my or any other employees absence.
However under normal circumstances I would'nt mind at all & would co-operate fully with any failover plan.
Bravo,
Have txt my boss this morning explaining I'm ill & just tried to call an hour ago but no answer....
f1,
Ummn just hope my situation sorts itself out just as well
Cheers
Last edited by sti555; 22 April 2004 at 10:05 PM.
22 April 2004, 10:04 PM
#72
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Ok update:
Have now recieved a letter from my employer, Disciplinary Interview on Tues the 27th 10:30..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
ummmn, more details to follow..
Have now recieved a letter from my employer, Disciplinary Interview on Tues the 27th 10:30..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
ummmn, more details to follow..
22 April 2004, 10:06 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by sti555
Ok update:
Have now recieved a letter from my employer, Disciplinary Interview on Tues the 27th 10:30..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
ummmn, more details to follow..
Have now recieved a letter from my employer, Disciplinary Interview on Tues the 27th 10:30..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
ummmn, more details to follow..
23 April 2004, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by sti555
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
...........:rolleyes)....errrrmmmmm didn't they stand over you making sure you didn't take anything that didn't belong to you whilst yer *** was being unofficially fired??? I can't remember but have you mentioned anywhere on this thread that your employers asked you for the passwords or for your help? but if they have you need to be careful about this part. Also have you told anyone in the office they you would not give the passwords back for any reason???
Originally Posted by sti555
Er tbh they have been trying to get hold of me on my mobile yesterday, had 20+ missed calls from 10:30 onwards... However I was bed ridden with sickness & worry.
Originally Posted by sti555
However I sent a note in the day before saying that the only communication I will accept is concerning my employment,in writing only.....
Prepare yourself now and log all the terms of events in your head or take notes and use them in the hearing if necessary!
Good luck and roll on Tuesday
..!!PS. If you have some kind of voice recorder use it if you are not allowed to bring anyone in the hearing as a witness as it could come in useful in the future!
23 April 2004, 06:33 AM
#76
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Originally Posted by sti555
Have now recieved a letter from my employer, Disciplinary Interview on Tues the 27th 10:30..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
To answer the original allegation & also theft of computer passwords..
Hope you're keeping a log of events and you've got legal advice. If not, do so - you need to know exactly where you stand.
Bonkers.
23 April 2004, 08:12 AM
#77
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"theft"???? Have they totally lost the plot or what?
You can't steal passwords ffs (as long as you haven't been asked for them and then with held them), if you are responsible for the security of the network then you can hardly go round telling everyone what they are That will be laughed at in court at an industrial tribunal with that line.
You can't steal passwords ffs (as long as you haven't been asked for them and then with held them), if you are responsible for the security of the network then you can hardly go round telling everyone what they are
That will be laughed at in court at an industrial tribunal with that line.
23 April 2004, 08:28 AM
#78
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Morning
Here is my draft statement regarding the 'Theft' of company passwords:
Response for Allegation of theft of company property
• Best practise has been observed in the handling of data and logins, usernames and passwords were NEVER left unattended in the office.
• Post it notes were used to store the rolling admin codes as they were rarely used at least one of the two servers was always online. Logon information was deliberately obscure, and therefore not memorable. As Person A and Person B waited for me to logoff and secure the servers, again best practise, I explained it would take a few minutes for this to complete. During this wait I turned on fans to cool important equipment to prevent overheating, thus avoiding any hardware and network failure in my absence.
• The post it notes and associated paperwork containing WEP keys, ADSL logons, Domain logons, IP details, routers, access points, switchs and data backups were always held securely off site to comply with best practise to minimise data loss in the event of theft or fire. On the day I was asked to leave the building however, they were on my desk as I was carrying out essential server maintenance and was using them as normal. I also asked Person A if I could organise a backup before my departure, however she refused to allow me to reload media and secure any articles of paperwork Person A assured me she would undertake FULL responsibility for removing them and locking them up. I can only assume that she either inadvertently disposed of these papers or failed to lock them up and they were subsequently cleaned away. Therefore the situation whereby ***** has locked itself out of its own systems is as a direct result of their failing to listen to my advice and stubbornly insisting that I leave equipment and information in an unsafe condition. Please note I was actively blocked from completing failsafe best practises with regards file backups again in the presence of Person A and Person B, Person A replied “It doesn’t matter, don’t worry about that, I’ll sort that out”
• I have in no way attempted to withhold intellectual property from *****. Any loss of key information has come about through carelessness on the part of **** Management. I even offered during a telephone call on the 20th of April to come on-site without delay to assist finding them. I was told “this would not be necessary”
• May I also point out I have to date not been asked for any logon information for web or FTP servers as stated in your letter dated 22nd April 2004
Here is my draft statement regarding the 'Theft' of company passwords:
Response for Allegation of theft of company property
• Best practise has been observed in the handling of data and logins, usernames and passwords were NEVER left unattended in the office.
• Post it notes were used to store the rolling admin codes as they were rarely used at least one of the two servers was always online. Logon information was deliberately obscure, and therefore not memorable. As Person A and Person B waited for me to logoff and secure the servers, again best practise, I explained it would take a few minutes for this to complete. During this wait I turned on fans to cool important equipment to prevent overheating, thus avoiding any hardware and network failure in my absence.
• The post it notes and associated paperwork containing WEP keys, ADSL logons, Domain logons, IP details, routers, access points, switchs and data backups were always held securely off site to comply with best practise to minimise data loss in the event of theft or fire. On the day I was asked to leave the building however, they were on my desk as I was carrying out essential server maintenance and was using them as normal. I also asked Person A if I could organise a backup before my departure, however she refused to allow me to reload media and secure any articles of paperwork Person A assured me she would undertake FULL responsibility for removing them and locking them up. I can only assume that she either inadvertently disposed of these papers or failed to lock them up and they were subsequently cleaned away. Therefore the situation whereby ***** has locked itself out of its own systems is as a direct result of their failing to listen to my advice and stubbornly insisting that I leave equipment and information in an unsafe condition. Please note I was actively blocked from completing failsafe best practises with regards file backups again in the presence of Person A and Person B, Person A replied “It doesn’t matter, don’t worry about that, I’ll sort that out”
• I have in no way attempted to withhold intellectual property from *****. Any loss of key information has come about through carelessness on the part of **** Management. I even offered during a telephone call on the 20th of April to come on-site without delay to assist finding them. I was told “this would not be necessary”
• May I also point out I have to date not been asked for any logon information for web or FTP servers as stated in your letter dated 22nd April 2004
23 April 2004, 08:38 AM
#80
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Please tell us you've seen a solicitor!!!!!!??????
Seriously, i dont think i've read it in any of your posts. You've got a very strong case, but a good solicitor can make it water tight!!!!!
you could walk away with major £££££££s for this and you'd certainly deserve it!!
SORT IT TODAY!!!
Seriously, i dont think i've read it in any of your posts. You've got a very strong case, but a good solicitor can make it water tight!!!!!
you could walk away with major £££££££s for this and you'd certainly deserve it!!
SORT IT TODAY!!!
23 April 2004, 08:44 AM
#82
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Cant agree enough on the solicitor thing. If you are to win this situation it is essential you have gone over all these point with a solicitor before the interview. In addition to this you are entitled under employment law to have a witness present mutually agreed between yourself and the employer. They play no active role in the discussions, merely a witness/observer to what is said so if any court action takes place your ar$e is covered.
Do this one by the book mate and you will come out of the **** smelling of roses
Do this one by the book mate and you will come out of the **** smelling of roses
23 April 2004, 08:44 AM
#83
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Simon, thankyou, did'nt really sleep to well last night, kept waking up writing bits down, the other statement is coming along nicely...
Frenchboy,
Gonna sort out solicitor at 9:00 and try & have a consultation today, not really the best time financially though for me tbh gonna have to sell my cat
Anyway thanks again for all the replys, been very helpfull.
Keep you posted
Frenchboy,
Gonna sort out solicitor at 9:00 and try & have a consultation today, not really the best time financially though for me tbh
gonna have to sell my cat Anyway thanks again for all the replys, been very helpfull.
Keep you posted
23 April 2004, 11:08 AM
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Ok, Now we can start the "Help Tim Legal Fund"
Just got a statement from the police officer present
"one of the children (Chavs) was crying otherwise the situation was calm"
"I cannot remember or not if Tim was swearing"
This totally contridicts the Tosh the employees have written in their statements..
ps. Judge Judy is great, been watching over the last couple of weeks
Oh I'm Tim btw
Just got a statement from the police officer present
"one of the children (Chavs) was crying otherwise the situation was calm"
"I cannot remember or not if Tim was swearing"
This totally contridicts the Tosh the employees have written in their statements..
ps. Judge Judy is great, been watching over the last couple of weeks
Oh I'm Tim btw
23 April 2004, 12:19 PM
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I have been on the opposite side of the fence in this situation where an employee was basically taking backhhanders and misrepresenting the company and because her immediate boss made the stupid mistake of alienating her (some would say for good reason) and calling her names behind her back she countersued for constructive dismissal.
We got away lightly because basically her solicitor cocked the whole thing up and his submission was a joke and we also found alot more incrimnating evidence of her backhanders and downright deceit because the moment she walked out in a temper the locks were changed on her sales office and she got a big shock when she came back to remove some incriminating evidence.
Even so she still walked away with a few grand in compensation so compared to my own experience with a genuinley dishonest employee you should be able to take your's to the cleaners
glad youv'e now got representation as it was down to our soilicitors perseverance and attention to detail (expensive though it was) that costs with regard to compensation was settled out of court for alot less than his actual fees.
oh i forgot to add
<jerry springer audience mode on>
GO TIM
GO TIM
GO TIM
<jerry springer audience mode off>
We got away lightly because basically her solicitor cocked the whole thing up and his submission was a joke and we also found alot more incrimnating evidence of her backhanders and downright deceit because the moment she walked out in a temper the locks were changed on her sales office and she got a big shock when she came back to remove some incriminating evidence
.Even so she still walked away with a few grand in compensation so compared to my own experience with a genuinley dishonest employee you should be able to take your's to the cleaners
glad youv'e now got representation as it was down to our soilicitors perseverance and attention to detail (expensive though it was) that costs with regard to compensation was settled out of court for alot less than his actual fees.
oh i forgot to add
<jerry springer audience mode on>
GO TIM
GO TIM
GO TIM
<jerry springer audience mode off>
Last edited by mattstant; 23 April 2004 at 12:23 PM.
23 April 2004, 12:29 PM
#89
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oh sorry tim re my last post didnt mean to imply that the cases were THAT similair. ie with regard to backhanders and dishonesty.
Just the constructive dismissal part i thnk you would probably heve been promoted and given a medal if you worked here
Just the constructive dismissal part i thnk you would probably heve been promoted and given a medal if you worked here
23 April 2004, 12:43 PM
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My wife was in a situation a few years ago whereby she was accused of various misdemeanours of which she was completely innocent and was busted down to a junior management position.
Ultimately, all ended well as we employed the services of a very clever brief who specialised in employment law resulting in a handsome pay out on the basis that the company constructively dismissed her.
Obviously, get a lawyer. Hopefully, the one that was recommended in an earlier post and then make sure that you write everything down as it happens in a factual way no matter how irrelevan it seems.
Good luck.
Ultimately, all ended well as we employed the services of a very clever brief who specialised in employment law resulting in a handsome pay out on the basis that the company constructively dismissed her.
Obviously, get a lawyer. Hopefully, the one that was recommended in an earlier post and then make sure that you write everything down as it happens in a factual way no matter how irrelevan it seems.
Good luck.