PeteC

If we're talking about the engine surging at around 2500-3000 rpm when the engine's cold, then I can't really see that as being much of a problem.

Mine (MY00) also does this, when I've given it a bit more welly than I should, when the engine is still cold. But obviously you shouldn't be doing that.

IMO, the real problem is trying to keep the engine off boost until it's reached normal operating temperature - and that takes a surprisingly long time. I've found that it will take a good 5 or 6 miles until the oil temp gauge is showing normal temperature - which is a hell of a long time after the water temp gauge is showing normal. Once the engine is warmed up I've not had any hint of surging whatsoever.

So whether or not you get any surging when the engine is cold is, to me, pretty academic.

Julian

Agreed, you do need to let the car warm up - but when you get hesitation on light accelerator after 30 minutes of driving I think that there is a problem that needs addressing.

PeteC

Julian,

Sorry, perhaps I was much too general with my reply. I wasn't trying to suggest that all surging and hesitation problems are due to the engine being cold. I'm sure some of them probably are though.

In previous cars, I'd assumed, probably somewhat naively, that when the water temperature showed normal, then it was ready to "fly". Without an oil temp gauge in the Scoob, I would never have believed how long the engines take to warm up.

PeteC

My system is playing silly b*ggers - hence the extra post!

[This message has been edited by PeteC (edited 05 December 2000).]

nickw

Still getting the usual story - no one can even give an estimated date for the arrival of the new ECU/Software/Fairy Dust (delete as applicable).

I've written to Bryan Pimm, Head of Technical Services at Sub UK. He is back on the 20th December.

The scoobs such a pain I've been driving around in a Volvo V70 over the weekend - and don't want to swap it back !!!!

Nick

sunilp

The ECU isnt programmable

Sunil

Julian

The ECU MAY not be field re-programmable - but it could be replaced with a new unit that has been programmed by the manufacturer with the corrected code.

sunilp

it aint gonna happen.

CYA

jwhitton

nickw,

I too feel the car is "not fit for purpose"
if the car is hard to drive when cold.

If they cannot provide a new ECU map that works then I am sure Power Station can provide a Motec solution that does not surge.

My ten year old RS Turbo with an 8-bit Motorola microprocessor does not have this problem, I suggest if Subaru cannot sort it they give Ahmed Bayjoo a ring he will be able to bloody sort it!

Subaru can either sort out mine and your problem or get their **** in court with a claim for a full Motec system fitted by Power Station. And before they ask no I do not want to swap if for the MY01 ugly duckling, I woudl sooner have an EVO.

Rich/Dirk if you are reading this give me a quote for a full Motec install to use against Subaru to ensure they either:
a) sort out my ECU
b) pay for a full Motec install by Powerstation.

jon

richard.heald

I have just had the lambada sensor fitted, I've only driven it back from the dealers but it does seem much smoother and maybe even a bit quicker I'll be going for a longer drive tonight.

Richard.

spudgun

i have a MY00, but i dont get any surging. however i mentioned it to my dealer today after reading this . he said they had the same problem with their demonstrator, and have since sorted it. i asked him if it would be ok to post this on bbs, and he is more than happy to help.
his name is richard butler, and he works for Days of Chelmsford, a subaru dealer in chelmsford( suprise suprise)essex.
his number is 01245 440571, or fax 01245 442978.
richards a genuine guy, and a true impreza enthusiast, not your usual arseole car salesman. i also think he said the works sorted by warranty, so good news eh?
tell him leigh says hello, and hope hes run off his feet with calls, ha ha!

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by richard.heald:
<B>I have just had the lambada sensor fitted, I've only driven it back from the dealers but it does seem much smoother and maybe even a bit quicker I'll be going for a longer drive tonight.

Richard.[/quote]

Did the lambada sensor detect any salsa dances or tapas bars while you were out for your drive???

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well guys, all i have to say is sorry, i dont have that problem on my MY00 turbo, i dont take her into the turbo until she is run up thou and i let her idle for about 30 secs before driving away so the auto choke can adjust. I dont know how you treat your cars but ill not push mine while she is cold, ive had no surging problems, no clutch judder (just a squeaky brake??) nowt
mine is a dutch import so........ i dont think its a characteristic otherwise all cars would suffer.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Oooooops forgot to say, 6500 trouble free and very entertaining miles

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Not wishing to start a 'my car's fine' debate, but I have a UK MY99, and I tried light throttle between 2500 and 3000 rpm.

Everything was fine! The car has 14,000 miles on it, and hasn't had the described problem since I've owned it (5000 miles).

I also let my car warm up, before going for it, but there is one comment that has stuck in my mind.

When I test drove it, my dealer said that "this car seems faster than the other '99 cars". I guess what he meant was that it didn't have the engine surge, like the other cars!

I hope Subaru come up with a fix soon, or else they may loose themselves quite a few customers all at once!!!

Dales

Anybody find that this problem is sensitive to:
a) the weather - (cold = no problem)
b) petrol type - (unleaded v super or different brands)

I have had this problem on my MY00 from new(minor compared to some of the posts described on here) but it seems to have disappeared in the last month or so following the colder weather and/or a change of petrol (from various brands to Texaco).

Has anybody else found this? I've now racked up 13k miles.

Dales

Julian

Dales,

When it's really cold I don't have the "cold Start" surging/hesitation. It's when the ambient temp is above about 7 Celsius that my car gives this problem.

I don't boot the car out of the drive, but I was surprised to find no oil temp gauge on the standard car. When I asked my dealer I was informed there was nothing available - comments please? I'm well aware how long it takes to warm the oil as my previous car had a gauge and would take approximately 10 minutes to register.

I'm not happy with the "cold start" issues, but can cope whilst driving in granny mode for ten minutes at the start of every journey.

The problem that really gets me is the hesitation when the car is warm. Again it's between about 2.3K to 3.3K RPM and with very often a big hiccup when crossing 3K. It's a problem typically when coming off a static throttle position cruise (though i can happen at other times too) and then wanting to gently accelerate. I find that if I just floor the throttle then not much will happen so I tend to feed the throttle gently and let things build up.

Well it's going back in January for new pads so I'll ask the dealer yet again.

Julian.

nickw

After going bonkers with my dealer and Subaru UK I have just received a call from their Technical Director ! I think he has just come back from Japan but don't quote me on that as when he called me I was in the middle of the WHSmith Xmas free for all....

Apparently the problems lie with emissions (see Guido's recent post). Subaru UK are obviously trying for a fix but the Japs keep compromising for emissions purposes. This could go some way to explaining why the problem can be cured with aftermarket bits n bobs. I also recall a recent test of the MY01 mentioning a slight 'hiccup' in the power delivery. As to why it doesn't happen to all of them - he said the problem is dependent upon variables such as temp, driving style, fuel etc etc.

Interestingly enough, he reckons that Subaru are not the only ones having this problem. Apparently BMW are having huge problems with hesitant engines ?

Anyway, they have a new ECU for me which I think he's just brought back from Japan. I have to call my dealer and arrange fitment, the regional manager is going to be there as well.

Fingers crossed everyone ! Will report back when fitted

Nick

Denz

Just spoke to days of chelmsford ad im going up there at 12.00 so i will let you know how i get on!

Thanks

Denz

BarryK

Any mileage in the info that the ECU is cleverly crafted to assume it is on an emissions check if the throttle is held steady at certain revs for any length of time. ie it thinks "these are not real driving conditions, time to meet the manufacturers published spec" so that it gets past the relevant legislation.

Seems to fit some of your descriptions. Those crafty Japs eh? They think of everything!

Denz

Just to keep you informed!

Days of chelmsford said that its not and engine surging problem but a contaminated MAF due to the poor fitting of a Ram air filter by another certain Suberu dealer who also fitted my scoobysport BB. But im not convinced!

It is now down at the lavender hill garage in enfield and there having a look for me! Be interesting to see what there opinion is!
Im still convinced that its the same engine surging problem as the rest of you!

Will post and update soon

Thanks

Denz

NDT

Got a similar problem on my 98 STi V4.....anyone else?
Hesitation / missing at 2000-3000 very light throttle. Very irritating (but at least there's plenty of go at full throttle)
Only been doing it for 5000 miles or so, car's done 40,000.
Doesn't seem to do it when cold.
Put it on a rolling road, and there were no emissions problems.....and it wouldn't do it...(typical).
Incidentally, this Subaru has been the least reliable car I've ever owned.

Denz

Back from lavender hill and they also said it was the air flow sensor, so they replaced it along with my airfilter (to Make sure it dont happen again).

Drove away from garage today and its still got the identicle problem!

So got to go back next week! Im getting a bit fed up now, i had a mondeo that was more reliable!

I will say that Lavender hill, so far have treated me very well, i would definatly recomend them!

Thanks

Denz

Andy-D

Well my UK spec MY00 has now developed the symptoms, exactly as described by NickW's very first posting with hesitation and the very annoying pulsing around 3000rpm.
The car has done about 6k miles and I have only noticed it this week, which has been quite cold. Coincidentally I had a downpipe and centre section fitted two weeks ago and I know the lambda had to be heated to remove it from the existing manifold, maybe the lambda sensor was damaged or maybe the fitting of the exhaust caused the problem or maybe this is coincidental?

Has anyone actually had the problem and cured it, with the problem not re-occurring over a fairly long length of time, including during cold weather? I've read on this thread of ECU resets and Redex Injector cleaner fixing the problem, if so has the fix lasted or did the problem re-occur?

Any more info on this topic which seems to be affecting alot of people appreciated, there is no way I can live with the car like this.

Andy.

sunilp

Any sign of this remapped ECU then?

dowser

On a Swiss my99;

Dealer fixed at 12k kms (supposed injector cleaning) - re-occured 8k later.

Cleaning boost control solenoid valve plus associated hosing and/or dump valve made it much better.

I think all later cars suffer from this problem to a greater/lesser degree. And different driving styles will make it more/less noticeable.

My brand new my00 also had it *very slightly* - but a PPP has masked it

Richard

Andy-D

Well I've tried the ECU reset and injector cleaner but problem still there so if you were going to do the same don't bother!. No-one seems to have replied with a solution and there appears to be no news about the replacement ECU. I will give my local Subaru dealer a ring tomorrow in Isleworth for the obligatory 'Never heard of that Sir' and probably get a sloping shoulder response then give Cheam motors a ring who seem to know there Onions and see what they say.
Anyone got anymore info on this annoying problem please? Still can't believe the last evolution of Subaru model has engine problems, what a let down. Hopefully this will be fixed easily or I won't be buying another, shame really.

nickw

New ECU to be fitted this Friday at Gilesgate Hexham with Regional Manager present. This is the ECU that Bryan Pimm (Technical Director Subaru UK) apparently brought back from Japan just before Xmas.

Will post this w/end with results. Fingers crossed.

nickw

tonybooth

I had a modified ECU fitted just before Xmas. It has made the surging slightly worse but the car noticeably quicker. On a brighter note I have just fitted the PIAA Platinum Super White Bulbs to head and foglights and the are quite superb. It makes you wonder why they don't fit them as standard as the are made in Japan!!

Andy-D

NickW,

Be interested to hear what the results of the new ECU are, hopefully its good news and Subaru will make it widely available to those reporting the problem. Pigs may indeed fly too...