nickw

There seem to be quite a few posts on the general subject of hesitant scoobies but circumstances seem to vary. Anyone experienced this prob with bog standard UK Turbo or (pleese!) fixed it ? Car is a standard UK MY00, 8500miles.

Description:
Engine hesitating / surging mainly when accelerating from 2000rpm upwards to about 3500rpm. Feels like power coming through in "pulses" as if fuel flow or boost being varied. Worse when cold or pulling away in 4th/5th gear from 60ish even when warm. Also seems to be a bit jerky when cruising on part throttle, hesitiates occassionally.

I mentioned this problem to a dealer at it’s recent 7500 mile service. Apparently the service manager (or somebody like that) was having a similar experience with his MY00 Turbo. According to them Subaru are looking into a solution involving the air flow meter. Anybody heard anything similar ?

Cheers

Nick

bob

Had exactly the same problem. My hesitation was very bad at about 2500-3000 it felt like the ignition was retarding. This showed up when at the track and other Scoobys were much faster. The car also surged at the same rev’s if the throttle was held steady.
My dealer drove the car and confirmed the hesitation and surging. He told me it was a common problem and Subaru were looking at the air meter as the problem, at the time (a month ago) they had no way of fixing the problem.
I could not live with this problem It was driving me mad. I had the PossumLink fitted this cured the problem.

John McElroy

Nick
I had the same problem.

My dealer changed the dump valve solenoid but that did'nt cure the problem.
Ask your dealer to reset the ECU, that cured my car!

John

Denz

Had same problem the dealer gave me a grilling over fitting a forge dump valve and took it of, but it didnt cure it!

It only seems to happen when the outside air tempreture is cold!

so when i took ut too dealer it didnt do it as the weather was too warm, They think im mad!

Thanks

Denz

bob

Had a word with the mechanic at my dealers today. He has phoned the big boys
at Subaru enquiring about my hesitation and surging at 2500-3000. They told
him it was an air meter problem and they don’t know how to get over it. He
told me they said it was just hard **** and the customers will have to live
with it. He did apologies to me and told me he just did not know what to do.

Denz

What dealers do you use????

Dave T-S

We bought two MY00 UK spec cars at the end of July and both do the same. Worse when cold but also does it when warm. From past experience of injection systems feels like bad mapping or crude airflow/mixture sampling.
Have just had full Scoobysport exhaust system from turbo back and ITG air filter fitted to both cars, noticeably quicker and great sound (read: LOOOUUUDDD) but surging still there.
Both cars loosening up now (wife's car 2600 miles, mine 1500) and going like stink since exhaust/air filter fitted. Makes putting up with surging more acceptable!

DaveW

Try using some injector cleaner. I've found it helps to smooth things out for a while.

DaveW

dowser

Do you only get this hesitation on a light throttle?

See

jwhitton

MY00 1000 miles on the clock and mine does it when cold on very light throttle between 2500 and 3000rpm just as the turbo is trying to spin up. Only appears to do this when cold, my guess is this is just bad mapping while the engine is warming up.

jon

dowser

Mine did it form new too - local dealer fixed it at first service, but due to language problems I didn't know what they did. Just know they used a can of injector cleaner

Richard

crusher

I've had this ,but only in cold weather....like it's only just become apparent again as the weather in the mornings/late evenings has become colder. This makes me think like Dave t-s that it's bad mapping as it only happens on my 99 car under light/feathered throttle when engine is also cold and running under "cold "warm up conditions. My local dealer was totally uninterested in fixing it or even looking at the car and just said (also about the clutch judder!) THEY ALL DO THAT SIR!
Having had no problems at all through warmer weather,mapping/air flow meter seems to me to be the answer.

nickw

Thanks all

I have mentioned this to my dealer (who again had never heard of the prob). Have we all got Friday afternoon cars or do dealers have the memory span of a goldfish ? They called Subaru on my request and verified that it is now a known problem (how did they find out if none of the dealers knew??), although there is no cure as yet.

I have written to Subaru expressing my displeasure at the problem - the primary reason you buy one of these things is for the performance (not for the quality of the interior!). When the performance is affected by a fault such as this it in my opinion frustrates the whole point of the contract.

I would urge anyone who has (or had & fixed through throwing wad at the prob) to write to Subaru UK. I wonder if we should bring this to the attention of the press as well ? A Subaru with an engine problem is like a Lotus with a handling problem, or an Audi with a build quality problem. "No.1 for customer satisfaction my ****" would make a good headline !

Given as how Bob seems to have fixed the fault with a new ECU makes me agree that it is definitely mapping/airflow related.

Nick

bob

I believe lots of Scoobys have the hesitation/surging problems to different degrees and I think mine was one of the worse, although I have had E-mails from members saying there car is as bad as mine was. I first thought the car was missing but found that on very light throttle the car seamed to back off as if retarding. When the car was cold the car seamed worse but that could be because of the light throttle when cold. When hot the hesitation was still there even under full throttle the car would hold back at 2500-3000 then pick up again. At Abingdon friends said how can you live with the car like that, its crap. What a show up ah brand new car and friends are saying its crap. I could only get 95 mph down the straight at Abingdon while other Standardish Scoobys hit 105 mph. They all overtook me down this straight. Had the Link fitted and went back to Abingdon I now hit 115 mph down the straight with no trouble. Subaru need their *** kicking for sending out cars in this condition. I just sold my last Scooby that had performance mods as I wanted a standard Scooby with no performance mods and found I could not live with it. Might as well of kept the last one it was a lot better. If I was purchasing a second hand Scooby I would test drive it and then accept it if OK. You don't think you need to test drive a new car. The car was paid for before I drove it. Otherwise I would have walked away.

Dippy

MY00 3500 miles.

Same problem but seems my symptoms are not as bad. During run-in I had very bad hesitation when the engine was cold. for the last 2000 miles I have been giving the engine a good thrashing once in a while. Seems to have loosened up well now, and I can't really say there's any hesitation anymore.

All I notice now is that I get the SLIGHT surging on light throttle. But this disappears when the engine is warmed up.

There must be a variation in the cars - same problem but differing severity.

I'm going to get a new ECU anyway. My boss has just bought an RB5 and I test drove it last week. Now I definately want a Prodrive mod...

Richie

I have this too on my my00 turbo, as does my brother on his my00 turbo.... only really noticable now during the warming up stage.

Ah well.

Richie.

nickw

Whoa

Just reset my ECU using the plugs under the dash. Much more power, boost starts earlier, lasts longer. But unfortunately surging still there (just stronger !!).

Car's done 8500miles and never been run on anything other than BP/Shell NUL/SUL mix so suprised that reset made such a difference - seems like a surging is not just annoying, it's seriously denting the performance. ECU must be retarding ignition right back.

Nick

BHORT

Had this problem on my MY99 at 2-3000 miles, sorted it by using Redex injector cleaner and changing from Q8 to Shell petrol. It will be interesting to see if it returns as the weather gets colder as this exagerated the problem when it did happen last winter.

Brendan

crusher

TO NICKW Where are the plugs tp reset ECU, and what do you do to reset it?
Can you achieve same aim by battery disconection?

nickw

Check out

Scrappy Doo

Norm the mechanic, at my local dealership had cured the problem before, by moving the knock sensor from it's position at the back of engine under the turbo. He reckoned that despite the problem being caused by a "Characterisitic", it could be cured.

He felt that the kncock sensor was picking up a noise/vibration and making the subsequent adjustments timing/fuel etc.

I did'nt let him move it on mine, but he guarantees, it will fix it.

He also felt that by using SUL and in his words " driving the f**k out of it" it would go like stink by the time it hit 10k.



[This message has been edited by Scrappy Doo (edited 21 September 2000).]

nickw

I can confirm that Subaru UK are now treating this as an acknowledged problem - extract from letter just received :

"In some cases, the replacement of the air mass meter has proven to be beneficial.

Assuming no sensors are working incorrectly (a 4 gas check would confirm) the symptoms you have described have been reported by some owners particularly those concerning cold running. As a result we have spoken to our colleagues in Japan who have bee investigating this for us with UK fuel and a UK specification vehicle.

Our technical service manager has recently visited Japan to test drive a vehicle with similar specification to your own which has received attention from our colleagues in Japan. I am informed there was an improvement. We have therefore, requested the necessary items from our colleagues in the event of a customer concern. As soon as details are to hand, the dealer network will be advised accordingly. Supplies are not available at this time, as the vehicle tested had received some changes and will need parts manufactured prior to our receipt."

Nick w

Jonathan

Who wants to tell them it affects the P1 as well ?

JOnathan

nickw

Your P1 will be using some common parts - could be the dodgy ones.

Nick

bob

Hi Jonathan
You could always go for the Link It sorted my car Costing me a fortune in tyres now

jwhitton

nickw,

Do you have a fault number for tracking this with IM? I too want to have may car sorted when a solution is found.

Please restart or continue this thread once you have further information. Or email me direct - jwhitton@hotmail.com

Thanks.

jon

hobieGARY

Ahem! I think you will find that there *is* certainly a cure. Somebody please try my fix. I have solved this problem long ago and have lots of happy customers who agree.

dowser

Not too sure about de-sensitising the knock sensor.....especially on a turbo car.....cure one problem (maybe) and have another terminal one a few thousand k's later

Cleaning MAF &/or dump valve did it for me and while it's not the smoothest car between 2.5 & 3k when cold & on a constant throttle, it now accelerates smoothly through his range.

Still like to hear anyone's experience of Gary's mod. on a turbo impreza though.

Richard

BarryK

I sometimes get this, but not something that has really concerned me, I put it down to my fairy like touch on the throttle. I think most cars behave like this when they're cold, it depends on the degree I s'pose. If it worries you demand that something be done, that's what the warranty's for and their JD power rating innit?

Oh, and could Prodrive please confirm Norm the mechanic's advice " driving the f**k out of it" has been passed on to messrs Burns and Kankunnen so's to get their's to go faster.

bob

In the thread "MY99 vs PRODRIVE" a few lads state that the PPP cures the Hesitation. Also my Link cured the problem. Could this be just a ECU poor mapping problem. If this is the problem Subaru could easily repair our cars. But think of the expence to them...