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The End of Phase 1 ... The beginning of Phase 2

Old 04 May 2004, 05:22 PM
  #211  
Nathan L
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I have the small filter in the wing at the moment.

Nathan..
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Old 04 May 2004, 06:01 PM
  #212  
mark*b
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Originally Posted by Nathan L
I have the small filter in the wing at the moment.

Nathan..
Do you think you'd gain much by going with a large Apexi induction pipe and K&N 57 pod air filter. The air would possibly be warmer but it'd be able to suck in more air. Just a thought
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Old 04 May 2004, 06:42 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Nathan L
I have the small filter in the wing at the moment.

Nathan..

Changing to the large BMC item will net some nice gains, would nt do it until just before your next remap though as its three times the size of the APS OEM item.

Just as a note, on my STi 8 when i went from the APS CAI kit with large BMC filter fitted to a RCM underbonnet item I was 30 hp down before the remap, had to actually raise boost 0.1 bar to get same power and it was running way too rich.
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Old 04 May 2004, 10:11 PM
  #214  
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Its not the filter thats restrictive its the APS cast pipe diameter.

Interesting comment relating to that Conrad as its just the opposite of what I found, see graphs above.

I'm doing some charge temp asessment at the moment, initial impressions are that having the filter in the engine bay raises the temp of the air going in but at the throttle body its still only 3-4 deg above ambient, pretty good intercooler i think, more to follow on that. Starting to substantiate my thinking on power available from it.

cheers

Bob
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Old 05 May 2004, 08:41 AM
  #215  
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A quick aside Bob - out of interest, how much do you expect the 6MT and clutch to take before they find that amount of torque too much to handle?

Very impressive work Bob!

Richard
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Old 05 May 2004, 10:00 AM
  #216  
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Bob,

Just seen the graphs, fansatic result. Keep it up!!!


Neil.

P.S. Found the ice rink thanks to your directions, last time I trust a mate that says he knows the way!!
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Old 05 May 2004, 11:06 AM
  #217  
The Fixer
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Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
Its not the filter thats restrictive its the APS cast pipe diameter.

Interesting comment relating to that Conrad as its just the opposite of what I found, see graphs above.

cheers

Bob

Not sure how you come to that conclusion Bob as the cast pipe is the same diameter as the turbo inlet pipe ?

Unless of course you are referring to the MAF friendly new version which has the number cast in, 56mm, samller pipe I think? Mine was the old type and of course there was no MAF in the pipe to disrupt flow either?

Here what your saying re intake temps, alot depends whether the temp difference between a cold air intake or an underbonnet intake gets carried all the way through to the throttle body or whether the degrees difference is lost in the intercooler and then it really doesnt matter. I will be interested to see what you find Bob.

Conrad
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Old 05 May 2004, 12:47 PM
  #218  
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All things being equal after the initial differences at the front of the intake path, if you've achieved a temp reduction it has to be maintained through the rest of the system...Laws of Physics and all that...
As an aside I've often wondered if there was anything that could be done to reduce the heat soak problems associated with the top mounted intercooler...apart from replacing with a front mount...I'm talking about shielding it from the heat in the engine bay...exhaust in particular...like making a sort of protective curtain out of a heat reflective material ( like the stuff that you can get to put behind radiators to reflect the heat into the room,and stop it going out of your walls..) putting this around the intercoolers sides+undersurface...If this could be done without reducing airflow it should make a difference...but it might be too small to be worth it...!!!
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Old 05 May 2004, 01:47 PM
  #219  
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May stop heatsoak..... but may actually cause more of it due to lack of cool air flow through the top mount.
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Old 05 May 2004, 01:48 PM
  #220  
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Nathan, nice! asfot chasing, well, I'm a 'works' car might chase it lol Seriously though, I'll have to have a wee outing in the beasty when I'm back over, I'm very interested in this kinda thing, for future reference if you get my drift.
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Old 05 May 2004, 02:54 PM
  #221  
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Conrad,
As I mentioned, it would have to be done bearing in mind the flow through the intercooler,perhaps some kind of tappered cone of material underneath the intercooler would leave the airflow through it unrestricted... whilst preventing heat soak in the intercooler...the tapper would extend down to or to the side of the gearbox...In fact looking at the routing of the pipework before and after the turbo,I would say that fitting sleves around the pipes (to insulate/reflect the heat away from them) might produce lower charge temps....
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Old 05 May 2004, 06:23 PM
  #222  
Bob Rawle
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Conrad, I was refering to Nathans car not yours, and he does have the std size cast pipe that mimics the factory diameter, so I say again its NOT the filter thats restrictive ie changing to a larger one on the same pipe would not do what is needed.

Charge temp info from today, motorway cruising in an 12 degree outside ambient, intake temp as reported by maf at 23 degrees, charge temp at exit of intercooler was 15 deg. couple of "runs" up to 7500 in 4th saw a rise of 12 degrees, one run through third into fourth into fifth saw an initial rise of 12 followed by a furrther increase of 5 and a further increase of 4 peak at 33 degrees since there was also drop off on gear shift. Interesting that temperature rise rate seemed to flatten out instead of increasing as a GC8 top mount car would have done.

more as and when

bob
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Old 06 May 2004, 06:30 AM
  #223  
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Would be very interesting to see if this new TMIC could be fitted to the GC8 cars with a bonnet scoop and if interesting results could be achieved .....

Carlos
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Old 06 May 2004, 05:42 PM
  #224  
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Carlos thjats already been done on both the new age WRX and GC8 cars iirc, it does make a noticeable difference.

bob
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Old 06 May 2004, 07:22 PM
  #225  
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fitting the new TMIC onto the the GC8 car I think is a little more complicated, but to get the full benefit a better scoop must be used too. Don't think the STi ver 8/9 scoop will look well on a GC8 .....

Carlos H.
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Old 06 May 2004, 08:46 PM
  #226  
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To be honest its not about looks though is it, and it actually doesn't look that bad, someone with Photoshop want to give us an impression ?

Everyone said the big scoop looked out of place on the MY03's but when look at the STi5 and STi9 side by side I know which I prefer.
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Old 06 May 2004, 08:58 PM
  #227  
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From

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=317700

Bob

Any luck with the price or availability for that part? No rush, just wondering?

Nathan..
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Old 07 May 2004, 10:58 AM
  #228  
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The following is not a true new-age scoop (they're different sizes), but a copy from Holland. It's not particularly subtle, but does work - ~4 degree drop in TB temps over 80kmh;





Richard

Photopic doesn't allow linking, bugger Use URL's in new browser;
http://www.blackstar.fotopic.net/p4285512.html
http://www.blackstar.fotopic.net/p4285498.html
http://www.blackstar.fotopic.net/p4286427.html

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Old 07 May 2004, 10:11 PM
  #229  
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well, i must say, i wasnt that impressed with the results and performance of an sti9 with said mapping. not really as quick as i'd have thought.


yeah - RIGHT !
i think Nathans comment of Holly ****! sums it up totally.

the man is a guru

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Old 07 May 2004, 10:50 PM
  #230  
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Lol, you are right Bob is the Guru

Nathan..
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Old 08 May 2004, 04:44 PM
  #231  
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Thumbs up Holy **** indeed!!!

Just got back from mapping session and I've got a completely new car! 160 miles of motorway home was pretty tedious, but a further 30 of my favourite twisties was altogether different. It now has upper rev oomph to match the midrange and sounds like a 2-litre Honda Fireblade in the process!

I'll attempt to post a more considered report once I've covered a few more miles...

Nice one, Bob!
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Old 08 May 2004, 05:51 PM
  #232  
Nathan L
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Old 23 May 2004, 10:03 PM
  #233  
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new to this and this thread is a fab read in all respects....

does bob remap anyone's car were is he based???????????

Andy
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Old 24 May 2004, 01:14 PM
  #234  
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Thumbs up More considered evaluation...

I've lived with Bob's stage 2 mods for a couple of weeks now and I hope this stands as a more considered evaluation than my earlier post of the mods outlined in this thread.

As can be seen in the picture below, the mods include the 3-port boost solenoid (far left behind the black bracket), Roger Clark Motorsport 'small' induction kit and the very sexy and shiny Forge recirculating BOV.



The stainless, catless Janspeed 3" is a very nice design IMHO and fits well and suits the car (below)



The mods have changed the character of the car in two principal ways.

Firstly, the performance is improved beyond all recognition. You've seen the graphs posted by Bob earlier and my car has the same power characteristics (although no doubt down on power as I use Optimax without octane booster). Most impressive is the willingness of the engine to rev right up to around 7k rpm, wheras it was definitely strangled at much above 5-6k previously (although still impressive in isolation). The sound from 5-7k is reminiscent of a big sportsbike, although deeper and not quite as hard-edged. The VVWOOARRR sound is fantastic and never ceases to thrill! It is now a seriously fast car and it is a testament to the chassis that it isn't at all scary (unlike Bob, I leave the DCCD firmly in 'AUTO'!) The power delivery is super-smooth doesn't shout 'turbo' at all. Very impressive work.

The second aspect is less clear cut and I'm sure more contentious. I would say to any prospective STI9 modders that Bob's stage 1 work is a 'win-win' change. It will give more power and a smooth delivery, without altering the character of the car at all. With the stage 2 mods, you need to be clear about how the car is going to change as induction and exhaust noise are very noticable, both from inside and outside the car. While the sound of the exhaust is fantastic when you're going fast, it does drone at lower engine speeds. I would say that at 3k rpm on the motorway that it is too loud and what was once a quiet, motorway cruiser, is now tiresome on a long run. The car used to be a b-road overtaking machine par excellence, because it did not seem to upset those being overtaken too much. Now, there is definitely more potential to terrify/annoy other drivers. The induction sucking and fluttering is very exciting when going quickly on a b-road, but intrusive in everyday driving.

This is not to detract from the quality of Bob's work, which is highly impressive, but to say that your car will change from a quick, relatively civilised car to an insanely fast, loud one! None of this will matter if you regard going fast as the be all and end all of your motoring, but it is unfortunate if you bought your car for its four seat practicality and everyday usability as well as its impressive performance.

Now it may be that there is no other route to such performance gains (2.5l??), and if so then I would still say that I'm not going to go back to 'stage 1' as I couldn't do without the performance and a percentage of the noise. Indeed, I'm sure that 'stage 3' will be hard to resist! I would like to suggest a 'stage 4' wish list, however. I would be very interested to see whether there is a way of fitting, say, a high-flow catalyst that minimises the restriction in the downpipe, while providing a quietening effect in the process. Either that or changes to the exhaust design that reduce some of the boominess at lower revs. Added to this, I would love to see an airbox/induction kit that allows a high air flow, bit reduces some of the 'sound effects'. I am not suggesting returning the car to its original noise levels, which were too subdued, but something a little less 'full on', allowing less motorway fatigue and funny looks from passengers. Something like BMW M3/M5 levels (or a little more) would be ideal!

Apart from the whingeing about the noise, this still stands as a highly impressive project and, with the caveats noted above, one that I would highly recommend to other STI9 owners. Bob can be proud of what he has achieved to date and I look forward to 'turbo time'!

Last edited by MrFlibble; 24 May 2004 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 26 May 2004, 09:06 AM
  #235  
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Mr. Fibble,

Good write up. I think though the noise issue is par for the course if running a full decat.

It would be interesting to see if the performance could be maintained with a hi-flow cat but I guess that will prove expensive.

Keeping an eye on this thread and I'll go straight to stage 10 when it arrives

Damian.
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Old 26 May 2004, 05:51 PM
  #236  
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Cool ok....i'm keen, just need to know how much now ?

i'm currently a little way down the road to buying an STi9 so would be really curious to know the total cost (parts and labour) of the tuning to date?....and would Bob be keen to perform all the work or just the mapping ?

cheers and can't wait to read more !

thanks in advance,

steve
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Old 27 May 2004, 10:26 PM
  #237  
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Steve,

FYI. You can expect to pay (all inc.VAT):

Initial EcuTek remap: 763.75 (Subsequent: 125.00)
Induction kit (175.00 exc. VAT) & exhaust fitting: 342.11
Exhaust: downpipe: 234.04
mid/back box: 581.00
Boost solenoid: 130.00
Forge BOV: 150.00

I'll let you add it up!
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Old 27 May 2004, 10:30 PM
  #238  
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P.S. BR Developments supplied the exhaust, RCM fitted it, supplied & fitted the induction kit & Bob did the rest. Budget for a few litres of Optimax!
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Old 30 May 2004, 10:13 PM
  #239  
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Awesome thread.....I want one
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Old 30 May 2004, 11:53 PM
  #240  
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he he he he ..................... full report to follow
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