Looks Like I'm Conceeding on this one.

Prices do seem keen.

Certainly it looks as though Brand new 2.0 STI short motors are at a premium and rare.

Err... Wee shot John?(Compare, Contrast.).

Obviously now my car is similar to your old spec.Barring gearing.

You certainly seem impressed.

Cheers

Steve.

 

It is the torque that is nothing short of astonishing Steve - firstly that there is never any real world situation where you have any lag to speak of, and the midrange hit is just phenomenal Running the same power as the 2.0 it is a vastly quicker car because of the torque. Although half a litre doesn't sound much, it makes the gearing feel too short and the turbo too small. Neither were never imagined on the previous setup.

Gearbox - I would keep your STi box, as they seem to handle the torque well.

 

Sonic, IM do a recon short motor for the P1 these days ! think about it, cost either 1239.00 or 1329. 00 plus VAT can't remember which. Full IM warranty for 12 months 12000 miles.

Sounds like a good deal to me and without getting buried in vitriol, In my opinion the 2.5 deal is a bit new to be able to easily be able to get it mapped and running right. I've not heard of a trouble free deal yet. Let the boffins sort it out then go that route in 2004 / 5 after it's proven. Unless of course you have unlimited mapping time available.............

David API

 

Did you get my mail SBTR.

Cheers Steve.

 

I have no idea why people think the STi 2.5lt is in any way a problem to fit, or map.

Apart from the extra breather, the block is nigh on identical to any of the other blocks.

Any of the heads will fit, and the only consideration is the compression ratio, which is easily sorted out.

Mapping is easy, it's no more difficult, or confusing that mapping any other Subaru with different modifications, and injectors.

The only difference we're talking about, is larger capacity, and if we were talking about fitting a 22b engine no one would question it.

The only consideration would be if you intend to increase the power/torque by a big margin, and then you have to think about the gearbox, but the same applies if you intended the same from a 2.0lt. It's just MUCH easier to get the power from the STi 2.5lt.

It's up to individuals to decide whether they prefer the idea of a brand new factory 2.5lt, or a re-built, or second hand engine, but at least make a decision based on the correct information !!!

Mark.

 

Yeh Steve I saw it last night, I sent you a reply.

Cheers for the info, still waiting to hear if they can get a new short motor!

-Ewan.

 

Mark.

As already posted

I've already conceded to the price/fit of this block to standard heads.

I cannot agree with the mapping is easy, comment.

Customers ideas of what they want to achieve.

And mappers ability to deliver (I.E. Based on what's gone before can sometimes lead to a compromise).

I fully understand this as well as mapper having to cover his **** in case of liability issues)

This thread has moved on somewhat from it's original Q.

It would appear the majority of posts are from people who have a vested interest in the new Scooby performance enhancement.

Don't get me wrong .

I am a prime candidate for any suitable performance mods.

My list is extensive (I'm sure John can confirm).

SBTR. is asking for cheaper standard short blocks.

Can You get them Mark!

I know we've all got to make a living.

If SBTR. Had been asking for cheaper clear side repeaters

Would we have jumped in and said consider blue they're cheaper.

I Know. Not worth bothering about.

John's had his car this past week and he's working out how to set it up in accordance to his needs.

Iam sure he will make a good job of it.

But it Ain't anyone elses car.

Trips back and forth to Mappers can be frustrating for both parties.

My own modifications were achieved as said before in swift time.

Would certainly have impressed many of the "Project" guys

They were based on Proven standards (Plug and play to a certain degree).

Based on proven components.

The 2.5ltr STI USDM. looks very interesting to me.(When proven to my specification without anciliary issues) and I'm sure it will. but that's not what the thread was based on.

There are alway's pioneers in the field but not all who buy SUBARUs. Do so in the thought of being at the forefront.

As the vast majority buy on the cars previous reputation and not on what it is possible to squeeze out of it.

Steve

 

Steve,

I'm sorry if you think my comments were directed specifically towards you, they weren't.

I do object to it being suggested that my post was for the purpose of a vested interest. You'll be hard pressed to find any post by me, trying to sell, or promote anything I do.

I appreciate there's a fine line between posting information, and being perceived as trying to sell.

No I don't have prices on new STi 2.0lt short blocks, and if I did, I would get berated if I posted them, or the prices of anything else I do !

I don't think your analogy is a fair one. How about "why buy those clear indicators, when you can buy XXXXX cheaper, and they'll do the same, or a better job" !!!

We'll have to differ on the mapping. I've been involved in mapping several 2.5lt engines, and they are no more difficult to map than a 2.0lt. However, this is with "fully" re-mappable ecu's, and without the limitations of for example the Ecutek.

I'm not certain what anciliary issues you're referring to ? but I've not come across any yet.

I have no idea if a 2.5lt is the best solution for SBTR, I'm just suggesting that to make the best decision for HIM he needs "correct" information.

IMO, he wasn't getting it.

Mark.

 

Yes Mark.

Of course as you say "He wasn't getting it "

Certainly on the cheapest prices of 2.0 ltr. Short blocks!

And it would undoubtably appear that through the course ot the thread .

Certain Issues have become apparent.

This is Reason WE (THE PUNTER) have to glean as much information.

as possible.

Now it would appear that Apart from making sure all comes together Sweet.

We have to Limit our Revs/Get it mapped by Who?/ With what?/ Inform/Change? our insurance/Take the hit on resale.

These are only whats been mentioned.

It all adds up.

Remember the Original post!

This costs SBTR. The price of his Shortblock /Plus fitting.!

No Issues?(Don't ask me What issues? I've said nought.)

It's the promoters that are leaking them.

 

Steve,

I didn't post, to have an arguement, and I believe these things should be discussed, good, and bad.

For whatever reason, you seem to be approaching this in a very blinkered way, and "looking" for problems.

Apart from it being suggested that STi's drop there RPM limit, all of the above apply when tuning, modding, or replacing a short engine !!!

Each to their own.

Mark.




[Edited by R19KET - 12/6/2003 2:35:50 AM]

 

Sorry Mark.

It has to be done.

It's the expenditure I am more concerned with.

Will it cost more.

I agree that these blocks appear keenly priced.

And we all agree it will need remapped £.

With new ECU? £

Will standard 440 injectors be ok?

I would think insurance may be more costly (Perhaps shop around)

Can we live with the timescale (It's up to us I suppose)

Would this be all worth it for a bit more torque in a car we have never had the delight to drive in standaed form.

Could be up and driving within a week on standard block buy.

On standard ECU/(map if you want I suppose ,I don't Know why?)
If the answer is because. You should, it's safer to do so .

That is why I am being so inquisitive on the 2.5 route.

It is basically trying to find out how far off the drop in and play route one has to go.

It's not for My concern it's for the many people who are quite happy with their cars the way they are but have ended up in situations similar to SBTRs. (I've known of many).

I am not arguing I am asking.

And when I get answers that's when I stop asking.

 

By the way.... what was the answer to the original question ???

 

Steve,

No need to appologise

If we take the cost of the short engines out of the equation, the cost of the build up/swap over is the same.

At this point, most people would opt for a re-map anyway, and both can be re-mapped with Ecutek, although if you want to go to the same level as JB, IMO, there are better options, but this applies to either 2.0lt, or 2.5lt. Still, the 2.5lt can still be mapped with Ecutek, without any major problem, and run in on the stock ecu.

440cc injectors are no more limiting on a 2.5lt, than they are on a 2.0lt. You just have to map to within their limitations.

The view of insurance companies will vary. I spoke to mine about putting a 2.5lt into a Forester, and they wern't worried about the CC of the engine, but the power. So they were treating it no differently than if I called them saying I'd increased the power of my STi4.

What timescale ? How long it takes to find a short block ? It's possible that it could be quicker to get hold of a 2.5lt, over the other alternatives, maybe not. If you were trying to find a good used short engine, you may be lucky and find one straight away, or it could take months.

The only downside I can think of, with the 2.5lt, is associated with the big increase in torque available, if you tune for it. Then you'll more than likely have gearbox issues to address.

Mark.

 

Thank you.

Mark.

 

740s (at least the disc style Tomei/Nissan onces I have) idle, hot and cold start and run closed loop very nicely on the 2.5 with JECS. Removing the 550s and sorting out a small inlet manifold leak made no end of difference, and it now idles nicely at 100 RPM over stock (lightened flywheel, heavier rotating mass).

The MAF sensor is an issue with FMIC, a lot of air and some dump valves on part throttle and lift off cause flow reversal which is sometimes a pulsation, which produces momentary lean surge. It is also an issue for restriction and limitation in induction setup choice. This is the issue I am working on at present and it is very experimental.

 

Glad this has been resolved.

I am shocked at the (low) price for recon P1 engine from subaru. Although I am guessing that hole in block would up the price for that.

Paul

 

Very interesting post.

Can you tell a 2.5 from a 2.0 from the outside?

 

If you open the bonnet the block says EJ25 on it instead of EJ20.

 

That can be fixed John...

Although the "2.5" under the block is more subtle.

Other than that they look nigh on identical from the outside.

Paul

 

Anything can be fixed with a Dremel

 

Pavlo, There is a blanket £350.00 surcharge on ANY broken Subaru engine offered for exchange to IM and it MUST BE like for like.

Sounds like a good deal to me in most cases. Until this 'recon' one from IM I'm led to believe that you could only buy a P1 engine in bits and build it yourself.

We've used a few IM short motors over the last 6 months or so and generally they are OK except for the paint on the block.

Nevertheless, we always strip them and put them together our way to be certain of our own Quality Control.

David API