Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Just wondering if the P1 short motor is the same as the one for the STI Ver 5/6, it's just that I need to replace mine (STI V5) and thought the P1 may have the same spec. i.e. are they interchangable??

Pavlo

Correct

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Cheers Pavlo, I'll have to get one ordered up, any ideas how much it will cost??

Pavlo

Depends on how you buy.

Short motor from subaru will cost plenty, and then some. If you're open to having the ECU tweaked to suit, then why not consider a 2.5 short engine from the US sti car?

These can be had for £1600 or less depending on where you can manage to get one from.

paul

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Does US STI short engine require any modifications to go onto the V5 STI, also are the heads comatable. If it's just as straight forward as using a P1 short motor then I would consider doing that.

Pavlo

check on John bank's threads below for info, they are almost a straight swap, just need to block a breather, and get EJ25 head gaskets to match and it's a goer. Contact Mark at Lateral Peformance for a price on a short engine.

Johnject thread[/url]

Direct link to prelim results page

Bear in mind it has a larger turbo than a P1, but with a 2.5 the P1 would have almost zero lag.

Paul

[Edited by Pavlo - 11/29/2003 11:07:46 PM]

sg72

Also remember.

John's running a Lateral Performance.

Gearset.at@£2000.

Steve.

Pavlo

A p1 turbo wouldn't be at home generating massive amounts of torque to kill gearboxes. You also don't have to run every last bit of available torque on any turbo.

Driving like a plonker is going to kill boxes much more easily.

Paul

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Cheers for the info, I'll have a think on what to do. Have to price everything and see what's the best option.

sg72

Come on Pavlo.

How many?

Straight swop. Blocks do you Know of.

Running sweet.

STI5 Type R Ltd.

With short block 2.5 USDMs

As said Johns is no comparison.

As his aims are totally different.



Certainly possible. But other issues outway expense.

Especially if only wanting Standard performance.

Adam M

sg22, I agree with pavlo.

You don't have to use what you have available.

if your power targets are the same you can get the same turbo to do the job, but you can get there with less boost, no lag and achieve the same torque at lower rpm, making an all round more drivable car.

For the same money or more likely less, it would be stupid not to!

Pavlo

sg72,

I think you miss the point.

The ej257 block is an inexpensive route.

There are no downsides, unless you consider remapping the ecu a downside.

There are no issues.

Edit: Actually there are the issues of insurance and having to alter engine size on logbook, but you need to modify that anyway with a shortblock change.

Paul

[Edited by Pavlo - 12/3/2003 2:45:37 PM]

sg72

I'm sorry guy's

It's just I have never heard anyone yet say.

"My standard spec STI 5 Type R Ltd (Close ratio gearbox 'cept 4rth and long 5th)Has benefited from the fitting of the 2.5 Block"




And that it has certainly been cheaper than using a standard block.

Steve.

Pavlo

LOL!

Is that seriously your argument?

I haven't heard anyone say:

"I wish I had my 1978 escort still, this new bmw is just needlessly quiet, refined and far too fast when we have a 70mph speedlimit."

But my mystical powers tell me that I would be hard pressed to find someone that would choose the escort over the BMW at the same price.

P1 has different gearing to the Type R.

Paul

sg72

Losing the thread Pavlo?

Sonic blue Type R?

I Have one also.

And as Lee was posting asking of the ability of fitting a P1 block to said car.

I think you answered the post straight away.

Now you have done Nothing but cause confusion!

Surely it would have been easier to have perhaps said where a standard block may be had at a cheaper rate.

I.E. Third party. As opposed to Official route.

You didn't quote how much a 2.5 USDM. block would cost from Subaru.

Instead You try to introduce an unproven alternative.

It's not your car!

You will not be you bearing the burden of Remap /fuelbills/insurance.
hasstle/availability of parts,resale.

I can assure you. I've been there.

And it mean't.

Knowing what I wanted to acheive.Speaking to the right people and getting job done.
Short shrift. Not a meandering "Project" waiting for the next confusing piece of INFO.

Steve.

Pavlo

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooh!

Handbags at dawn!

If you must know, you can buy a EJ257 shortblock for $1600 US, which by the time it's landed in the uK with VAT and duty is about £1400.

Or you can buy one from Mark at lateral performance, he charges more, but has a reliable supply and sorts it all out for you.

The reason nobody has come out and said it's great in a type R (which is different again from a standard sti5), is you've only recently been able to get the blocks at all. But plenty of people have done the same thing on similar cars.

But for an otherwise standard car, it's a cheaper and I beleive better solution than paying around £2200 for a short engine from Subaru, or getting one rebuilt by a dealer. ANd seeing as you can't buy parts through dealers for imports officially, I can't see why you mentioned it.

What exactly is wrong with it? And I don't mean because it's unproven, because it is, as far as I can see, in the US sti with close ratio box, Forrester with long ratio box, and with numerous people doing conversions in a myriad of cars in between.

Paul

sg72

No handbags at all Paul.

Only stating fact.

It would appear now from your last post that these blocks are now available from the U.S. for nigh on £1000

I'm waiting till tommorow they may be giving them away.

I am well aware that this block has only just become available.

Untill youve come up with the facts regarding full costs and issues regarding STI5Type R Ltd.

I'm afraid I would be wary of jumping in.

Steve.

sg72

Notice "Doing conversions".

Pavlo

Heres a few facts for you.

$1600 is the dollar price, less delivery, vat and duty.

£1400 is a relistic price for someone to have one on their doorstep.

http://www.rallispec.com/product-eng_1.htm
Rallispec say there can be long lead time on these, but I have seen then for sale for $1400 apparently in stock, can't find the link right now though.

If you want proof of a price from Lateral Performance why don't you phone and ask? He had some in last week, and I know 3 people that have purchased one from him.

Wrt to 'issues' for the Sti 5 Type R Ltd GXY whatever, please enlighten us what these issues are, and then we can all decide if they are issues or not.

Paul

Pavlo

Looking at your other posts, I am guessing the issue you mean is the 7000rpm factory rev limit.

I wouldn't call it an issue myself, but it may affect some people if they want to be able to X mph in some gear.

Tough one to call, might be a bit of an issue on Type R for top speed. But for general driving it doesn't affect a thing.

Paul

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

I think I'll be going down the P1/STI V5 route, considering I bought the car with a knackered bottom end! So I don't really know what the standard 2.0 block is like anyway.
In other words I wouldn't be able to draw any comparissons if I bought the 2.5 STI block.

I do think that the rev limit @7000rpm could be an issue for the Type R V-Ltd, as the limit for this normally is 8250rpm. It's just there is so much of a price difference between the two I thought that the 2.5 STI block could possibly work.

So know that I have decided on the P1/STI V5 short motor do any of you know where I could get hold of one. Only it has to be brand new everything, inc. pistons,crank,bearings.....etc. I have a price already but just want to be sure that I can't get it any cheaper

sg72

I Don't Know of the issues fully.

And neither doe's anyone else,apparently.

I'm just trying to help SBTR.
on the road to getting his car up to speed.

And not to let him be used as the "Guinea Pig".

I just think it would have been more prudent.

to have perhaps suggested third party prices of STI 2.0 ltr.
short blocks.

Instead of pushing the latest trend in the projects threads.

sg72

Sorry you got in before me SBTR ( I'm very slow at typing).

I shall try and search for you.

Perhaps others may do the same?

Steve.

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Cheers Steve

Pavlo

If you have a V Ltd I beleive they have a longer top gear, which would be acceptable with 7000rpm limit.

However, if you want a new 2.0 engine with 8000rpm rev limit it would be worth looking at some other (ie not subaru) options (8250 is the rev limiter I beleive rather than max recommended rpm of sti unit).

From the US you can get rods and pistons for about £800 all inc, which could be used with an engine gasket set (£60ish) and a set of bearings (£150ish) and maybe a new crank (£425). If you have someone capable of doing it, the end result might be better than getting a new sti shortblock, and certainly better than a used shortblock (functionality wise).

As a rought guide I sold a sti 5 shortblock for £500 earlier this year.

Paul

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

I have a top quality Subaru Mechanic on the job, just wanted to see what kind of prices I could come up with.

Also the block has a hole in it due to the con rod smashing into it, it's a bit of a mess in their. That's why I need everything, cheers for those prices Paul, looks like I won't be able to get it to much cheaper considering!

Put it this way, I'm looking at £2750 parts cost!

Probably have to bite the bullet and go for it, want my car on the road, and I know it's all top quality, brand spanking new!

john banks

If you just wanted 300 BHP the only extra cost of doing the 2.5 would be mapping it.

It is proven at 300 BHP by Subaru

300 BHP in a 2.5 is a much nicer drive than the same in a 2.0, although the gearing could feel a little short, just drive in a higher gear off the torque.

I think the EJ257 is the cheapest new STi short motor you could get.

I suspect you could get an EJ257 short motor and remap for less than the cost of any other new STi short motor.

You are welcome to have a ride in mine. I suspect you would be converted forever

[Edited by john banks - 12/4/2003 7:30:31 PM]

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

Hi John, is your car not running @400bhp, or something like that, thats pee your pants material, would be cool to have a shot in that but it still wouldn't tell me exactly what it would be like in a V5 Type R V-ltd.

I have to admit though, if I had the car running with the original enigne, and there after had to replace the short motor, I would most probably go for the 2.5 STI, just cos it would be a change to what I've been used to. But considering that this is my first Scooby and it has been undrivable, I think I would like to see what they are like under it's normal spec.

Cheers for the advice, you make a pretty good case for the 2.5 STI short motor, but I'll stick to the basics for just now.

Ewan. - Oh! might as well ask you if you can get brand new P1/STI5 short motor, for cheaper than me, @£2750.

john banks

Go and find an STi 5 Type R to drive then and then fit the 2.5

I could run mine at 8 PSI to give you an idea

Sonic Blue Type R

iTrader: (3)

OK, a quick question - If I put the 2.5 in my car and the gearing was too short, cos in reality I would probably get board @300bhp, after a wee while, how much would it cost me to get a new set of ratios, and to generaly uprate the existing gear-box??