NACRO

re: the oil companies being c**ts question.

As I work for one I can confirm that indeed they are c**ts and are making a fat profit out of it thank you very much.


As for BP ultimate and Optimax for that matter- what happened to the extra RON that we used to have in the UK? SUL used to be 98 Ron, where did the other one go? In Europe all SUL is 98 RON and costs about 1-4 euro cents more per litre. I filled up yesterday in France and paid €0.97 (about 70p) per litre for Shell 98 RON SUL. The UK is rip-off central as anyone who lives in Germany where Shell 100RON Vmax (maybe Vpower it was a few months ago now) is available for less than UK 97RON.
BP can kiss my a*s like the rest of the robbing UK companies (and govt)

shizzle

Hello, i will try and cover coms of the poitns made about my post.

I appreciate that some cars do benefit from an increased octane rating , however, overall BP Ultimate gives significant benefits relative to unleaded 95. The whole point about BP Ultimate is that it’s available for all cars, including high performance cars. So in developing BP Ultimate, BP’s aim was been to produce a fuel that will give benefits in all cars, not just the small percentage of performance vehicles that are sensitive to octane.

Regarding the cleaning properties, detergents in fuels are not new, but in BP’s research they found significant levels of deposits in the vast majority of vehicles on the road today. Which are all aware of. BP Ultimate has twice the cleaning power of conventional fuels and will not only keep your engine clean but will also clean away deposits that are already there. BP Ultimate provides outstanding engine protection. It reduces wear in critical engine components, such as fuels pumps, and also effectively gets rid of rust. In addition it cleans you engine and also reduces formation of sludge in the oil, both of which can cause engine problems.

Not sure how to do quotes on here, but BP conducted very extensive vehicle tests as part of the product development and proving programme, including models from all major vehicle manufacturers represented in the UK. Much of the test work demonstrated the benefits of BP Ultimate was conducted in independent laboratories including Millbrook and Ricardo in the UK. All the laboratories – including BPs – are ISO9001 and DIN45001 accredited, ie to internationally agreed protocols.

If I can find out more about the particular tests run I will be happy to let you all know. At the moment I have only seen the impressive figures.

And BT52b, the MON of Ultiamte Unleaded is 86

Adam555

God this guy is a BP marketing machine....

yes yes blah blah blah

but it is not any better than Optimax for preventing det on grey imports is it? In fact its worse as a standalone fuel than Optimax but thats why i'm trying to find out whether or not adding extra octane booster to Optimax AUCTALLY has any effect or not considering Optimax is basically SUL + Boosters

Anwsers anyone?

TelBoy

Adam, added octane booster definitely makes a difference, both in terms of perceived performance and it's effect on Knocklinks, for most people.

Give it a go. You won't be doing any harm. But use a decent OB such as NF (if there is any in the UK), and not a toy product like Miller's.

HTH

Boss Hogg

shizzle - so in other words the figs you quote are % improvements of n u/l. So I repeat my question, given that you seem to be BP marketing, what are the % improvements over Optimax. Why should I switch from Optimax to ultimate?

Adam M

Telboy,

It has been accepted that octane boosters dont have cumulative effects.

SO if optimax is just NUL + OB then adding OB to optimax wont yield many more returns, whereas adding OB to Ultimate which does not use octane boosters to get its extra 2 ron, means we grey import owners could all end up better off.

TelBoy

Adam, i'm just saying what happens in practice, not in theory.

Most people's Scoobs run faster with NF added to their Optimax, most people's Knocklinks keep quieter.

Jza

Jza

ozzy

Shizzle,

Do you work for BP?

Stefan

Adam555

Hmmm Adam M has hijacked my point but what the heck...

So if Optimax IS just SUL+OB (can we confirm this pls) then using Ultimate + OB should be better both in performance and det prevention than Optimax + OB...agreed?

shizzle

Can't remember who said it, but I don't work as marketing for BP. I just happened to be able to get a hold of this information! ;o)

The figures I have are compared to standard unleaded. I will find out as much as I can compared to Optimax.

ozzy

If you don't work for them are you just in their pocket

Vegetable oil is probably better than unleaded these days

Stefan

Scooba Driver

I have been reading the threads here about BP Ultimate.

I filled in the form on BP's website and asked a number of questions, not exact words but as best as I can remember:

1. Why do we get 97 ron and Greece get 100 ron ?
2. Has BP Ultimate been independently tested for it's resistance to detonation ? If so, where can we see the results.
3. How does it compare to Optimax for resistance to detonation ?
4. Don't you realise that there are lots of people with performance cars who would quite happily pay more for a 100 ron high quality fuel. Why not meet the demand before another oil company does ?
5. Can you give one good reason to change from optimax to bp ultimate ? I have read all the stuff about cleaning deposits etc but optimax does this anyway. Is there any advantage ?

I have not had a reply so far, sent these in yesterday. Some I think have been covered in these threads, others have been asked but not answered. If BP are reading this then please reply to my email directly, don't post it on here, but feel free to respond to this post.

Anyway, the bottom line as far as I can see is that we all want a fuel that meets the following requirements. There may be others, these are what spring to mind right now:

a) Is as resistant to detonation as the 100 ron stuff available in Japan, or better
b) Is available on the forecourt of our local garage
c) Costs around the same as we pay now for optimax / SUL plus octane boosters

Why do we want this fuel ?

(i) We want to protect our engines from being damaged by det
(ii) We want to be able to get full performance from our cars
(iii) We don't want to mess about mixing boosters or trying to get hold of them if we can help it.

I'm sure everyone (well most at least) on this board would agree that the first oil company to make such a fuel widely available in the UK would be visited by us in preference to any other, every time.

Now I don't know whether this new BP stuff is any good or not, but from the information available it's not something I'm going to try in my car. My knock link is very quiet with optimax and NF so unless I get some good information to tell me BP Ultimate is at least as good as optimax for det prevention then I'm going to stick with optimax. Not that it will be available where I live for a while anyway.

So, if there is a BP representative reading this, please stop telling us about the cleaning properties of your fuel, and tell us about whether or not it is any good for preventing detonation, whatever the octane number is. If it is proven to be good then we will buy it, if it isn't then we won't.

If there is anyone out there from Esso or AN Other oil company then please take this on board. There's a demand for a higher performance fuel than is currently available in the UK today.

greasemonkey

Please define "lots". If I'm Mr Petrol Company, I'm not interested in nebulous terms like "lots". How many people in the UK do you honestly think fall into this category? Numbers please!

Mr Petrol Company: We don't give a stuff whether someone else satisifies that niche, all we care about is making as much money from as many people as possible.

Please define "we all". I don't give a sh*t whether there's a 100 RON fuel available as my car is mapped for 97, and I wouldn't hold myself hostage to fortune by getting my thirsty motor remapped for a fuel that might not be available when I need to fill up.

Why would UK car owners give a stuff about the resistance to det of Japanese spec fuel? UK cars are mapped for UK fuel after all...

Does the term "having your cake and eating it" mean anything to you?

Ask yourself how many people read this BBS, ask yourself how many other people read motoring BBS's, and then ask yourself how many potential customers a fuel company would need to make the product you asked for in points a, b and c above financially viable.

Er, why not? There's no reason not to try some (with the same amount of NF you'd normally use), especially seeing as you have a KnockLink. If that starts lighting up like a christmas tree, you know it's not up to snuff.

Do you think they care what you do? It's obvious that they don't, as if they did, we'd be sitting here talking about BP Ultimate 100, not BP Ultimate 97...

You can buy performance fuel today, in a variety of chemical compositions. 102 octane race fuels start at about £2.50 a litre, although the downside is that you can't buy them at the pump.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/10/2003 4:31:18 PM]

Reffro

This fuel is not designed to be of any particular use to small minority of imported car owners.

Who it is going to benefit are the owners of the soon to be common direct injetion petrol engine cars. DI petrol cars require ultra low sulphur fuel, and the cleaning additives will be useful too no doubt, added to the fact that the current DI petrol engines (VAG & Ford) both recommend that you use 97 RON fuel to see the full benefit of the new technology.

pat

I've now used the first, and last, two tanks of BP Ultimate. It is, most definitely, inferior to Optimax, not least because it has lower knock resistance, but it is also more expensive too. I think that the deliberate reduction of aromatic hydrocarbons is a very clear signal that it certainly is NOT a performance fuel... now where did I put that container of Elf Turbo Max ?

greasemonkey,

just one comment... you can buy race gas at the pumps in the US... niche market? go figure!

Cheers,

Pat.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Hi,
I appologise for skipping from the first page directly to this, the last page, but has anyone got a firm answer from BP on its Mon rating?

Unless you guys and girls never rev above 2500rpm you should stop worrying about RON and concentrate on his high power friend Mr MON.

Interesting topic by the way, looks like the Uk got the **** end of the deal once again... fancy that! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Daz34

No it isn't!!!!

mutant_matt

So, someone said the MON rating of Ultimate is 86? Anyone else able to back this up? Anyone got the figures for Optimax? I have "heard" that Optimax has both a higher MON and RON value but I will try and get some actual facts on that matter. As I don't really know much about fuel (), is the MON rating the calorific value of the fuel? If so, higher is better right?

Shizzle, if you don't work for BP, why do you appear to be so behind them?

Pat, any more detail you can give us about your experience with Ultimate?

Matt

GTI

I read it was 96RON

StickyMicky

i have sumthing to say, but i wont be saying it as its just going to fall on deaf ears

this whole optimax is 95 plus boosters has got to be the biggest windup on the net
prove that its 95 + booster!
ive read copys of emails from shell people saying otherwise

good night
god bless

shizzle

why back up BP? I just don't like Shell! )

The MON rating for Ultimate is 86.
The MON rating for Optimax is 86.

Direct from each of their customer services. Still trying to get more technical info about det.

mutant_matt

So if the MON rating is the same, and Optimax has a higher RON rating, what reason is there for choosing BP (and that's before you talk about the fact that BP is more expensive! )?

Matt

Gary H2

Filled up with BP Ultimate last night at 83.9p compared to Optimax at 77.9p litre. Drove home, drove to work. Any diference? Yes, 5p a litre. I'll mostly be using Optimax next tank full.
But it is nice to know that another fuel is available for those long trips where local knowledge of fuel supply disappears.

Cheers,

Gary H.

p.s. BP thanks for all the fish. (Starts filming in the summer!)

pbee

Wow I wish optimax was 77.9 at my local garage, Optimax used to be 82.9 and BP SUL was 81.9 is BP ultimate more than the SUL price they used to supply ??.