David_Wallis

yeah... your fingers must ache..

Would be interesting reading..

Also what is the driving style for those miles, or MPG figures.

David

chiark

Yeah... Try driving mine and be happy with what you have which is a reliable, day-in, day-out 350-odd bhp and ftlb car that shifts, embarasses most things on the road and isn't likely to lunch on gearboxes, clutches, diffs, drivetrains etc.

*mutters* youthoftodaydontrealiseexactlyhowquicktheircarisan ddontrealisethattheyreallydontneedmore

Cheers,
Nick
PS - I find a 1.2 clio works well for me as a reality check

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Nick, funny, Emmas jeep gives me the reality check

David, i average about 22 to the gallon on weekly driving, and that is a broad mix of driving, as you may know, slip roads, setting off from junctions etc are done with a puposefull manner!

Steven

fingers do hurt

Cord

And somebody can tell me what to do while i'm at it. My uk99 engine is not happy, (breathing very heavily through the dipstick, and burning oil at an alarming rate) I want somewhere in the region of 350bhp. Do I rebuild my engine with new bit's inside (just what, i don't know but am sure you lot will tell me what's best) Find a new engine, RA, STI5/6 (But I won't know it's history) If I am rebuilding an engine am I best rebuilding something other than my current uk engine? Decissions decissions!!!

p.s. I will be doing all the work myself, cos I know a bit about engines (I tune skylines for a living) but I know very little about impreza's.

David_Wallis

in that cafind a closed deck block, new bearings, rods and pistons and then the usual sh1te

Adam M

rod bells?


if so you have a great reputation.

get yourself a closed deck block as david says and buy yourself some decent rods and pistons, I would recommend lateral performance for such things.

for 350, some would argue that a standard engine will be fine, and they are probably right.

I just bought an sti engine from a write off which will probably see that with the right turbo and intercooler.

If you can build your own engines, then for the money I paid you can almost build your own engine using the best choice of components, so that if you want to load it to around the 500bhp level you will be able to.

Cord

Yes the very same Rod Bell's. Cheers for the compliment.
What about heads and cams, are STI heads different to uk? And do STI cams fit in uk heads (ie will HKS cams for STI fit in my head).
What year/model are closed deck? And any pointers on what make of Rod's and pistons? Basically can I have the content of the collectives brains please. Oh dear and can feel me getting carried and chasing 400 odd horses!!!

The Fixer

Steven, well put although it must taken you ages to type! lol

I originally posed the question to find out about reliabillity because I do around 25K a year also, used daily and still need sensible reliabillity.

Enough power did some one say???? Didn't think it was possible

As for a Reality check, my car is in at G force having all the bits fitted and my hire car is a FORD KA How SH!& are they, jesus it took me two hours to London from Aylesbury, could have sworn the thing was still in first gear at 70mph judging by the noise it was making lol

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 9/16/2003 4:27:40 PM]

David_Wallis

sti heads have different lifters..

Phase 1 and 2 heads are different as are the cams pulleys etc..

think you can run wilder profiles on phase 2 engines..

I use phase 1 sti heads on my car and custom cams, springs , valves etc..

wilder than hks can be sourced from the uk.

David

David

Cord

Sorry for being a novice,
Phase 2 being 96-2000?
Should I be getting STI heads to go with my closed deck block? If staying with uk heads, who does cams for them?

Andy.F

Hi Steven

Yes you have guessed the correct cars, there are a few more from the RCM stable who are not on Scoobynet, one can be seen in this months Japanese Performance.
Not sure the 'exact' mileage of the other cars, my own has done around 10K in the last year, mostly up and down to Well Lane/Elvington or running to Crail/Knockhill !!!
All my miles tend to be 'hard thrash' I could run the car through town to work and back each day and make that 20k per year
but I prefer to plod through traffic in my old Cavalier.
I don't think town mileage proves anything. A properly tuned 450bhp car will not wear out any quicker than a 250bhp car pottering through town.

I'm not against 2.3/2.5 engines, quite the reverse, the more CC's the better I have a 2.5 block/crank sitting in the garage just waiting on a burst of enthusiasm

My main reservation on a capacity increase is the cost of a reliable transmission to handle the torque. The PAR set from Mark seems to be the current preference, although even these gears have had problems handling the increased torque from the big CC motors.

With the 2.0 you can keep the torque below 350lb-ft but hold on to it to higher rpm and achieve circa 450bhp without killing the box (Yes I've broke a few but that's 380+lb-ft and paddle clutches to blame) This can make a quick motor for the road with a very useable powerband. Very little short of a superbike (or a RB Skyline ) is going to catch it

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 9/16/2003 7:16:54 PM]

Adam M

phase 2 is 99 onwards.

the cams are no more wild, but the standard heads flow better.

there are two types of phase 1 cams, and am not entirely sure that they are interchangable.


makes of rods par from lateral performance, my fave choice of pistons is JE.

If uncertain of increasing stroke, can always increase bore to 2.2 and leave stroke the same.

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

http://www.chpltd.com/japanese_performance/heaven.html

Adam M

I think the biggest achievement in that article is managing to tune the car up to 1700kgs.

that must have taken some work.

john banks

I stopped using my car daily in January when I broke third gear with similar torque and power to you presently P20. I then put another standard box in nnd grenade tuned it to 406 BHP and only did a few thousand miles and one small drag session with it. I would not trust a daily driven UK engine with more than 350 BHP. So I started my project which is still ongoing after a few setbacks. IMHO as things stand at the moment, if you want a safe daily driver with 400 BHP buy an E39 M5 under BMW extended warranty for about 25000. PS on holiday cannot read emails or send text.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Cheers for the reply Andy, you really been to Elvington, Well Lane etc that many times. Read the article in the magazine, had to get it as i was told my ugly mug was in there

The gearbox is my concern, and is supposed to be my next purchase, just waiting to finish the house 1st. I know the sti7 onwards 6 speed box is supposed to be stronger than the classic shape one, but i am still worried for all these cars with big bhp.

Judging by the number of boxes you have been through, i guessed you drive hard. I agree its not the BHP that kills the box, its the torque.

There are quite a few 350bhp cars out there now, but not a lot have high torque figures to match. Look at the recent Well Lane figures, and the alst ones, compare the torque to the bhp, IMO some are out of scale if you know what i mean.

Am i right in thinking that its the torque that can kill the engine more than bhp? or have i just misread somewhere. Yet torque is the real king on the road IMO, not BHP. Combined well, they are very good, and offer an excellent power band as you say. In my case per the last Well Lane at 5250rpm i had 320lbft, the torque rose by 5lbft just after this, but then dropped as BHP took over.

This makes my car feel very quick on the road, and generally performs well, when the need arises. It gets driven fairly hard in areas with no houses, read as a substantial part of my journey, and then in town etc, i just pootle along.

What do the stoker kits do for torque, and can the bigger engines provide more torque (believe theory suggests so)?

Steven

Andy.F

John

I disagree that tuning a UK to 406 bhp is "grenade tuning" If there is no det, plenty fuel and rpm is kept below 7k why would it "grenade" ??
If you had the tube headers on your 2 litre, then the 406 bhp you achieved would have been available at much lower boost than you were running on the std headers.


Steven

Stroker kits will increase the torque more than the bhp all else being equal, this will make the car feel much faster than it actually is, ie the initial push in the back will be impressive but it will tail off earlier.
Of course most people increasing capacity work on the breathing by way of gasflowing heads/manifolds and changing cams/turbos, this helps to maintain the torque higher up the rpm range and allows good power gains.

Andy

David_Wallis

I know my engine is unproven as yet, but I do hope to get some figures soon, when Ive sorted the teething problems.. its hard though when you only recently got your licence back.

Steven, theres no replacement for displacement..

I believe compression ratio also effects torque figures, etc..

I believe higher compression means that it will be more driveable off boost..

My car is lower compression than std.

Ive heard on the grapevine of good figures from the 2.33 at low revs and low boost.

David

hrubago

One thing to decide. Assembled sti 2.5 USDM short engine cost in USA 1400 USD.
The same like only forged pistons for EJ20.

tweenierob

hrubago
Where does this price come from??

Cheers

Rob

pugoetru

well this is my first real turbo car (except turbo diesels)

I have driven cars with more low down torque etc you have to rev the engine to get the best out of it

I agree with david wallis no substitute for cubes

I had a mk2 cortina with a rover v8 in it and it could pull like a train in any gear at any speed with only 180 hp but it felt like much more because of the torque

The Fixer

But....

Its still only a standard "OFF the SHELF" SEMI closed deck block, it will still need money throwing at it with stronger liners and conversion to closed deck By the time you have spent all this it wont be such a cheap option. There must be suppliers out there who already sell closed deck strengthened blocks???? Or maybe not??

Edited because I can't spell....


[Edited by RSVR Racer - 9/18/2003 9:11:45 AM]

Andy.F

Maybe it could be used 'as is' ?

Assuming the 2.5 has similar liner wall thickness to the ODB 2.0 ? (which has run happily at 450+bhp) then for the same cylinder pressures, 560bhp and 470lb-ft torque should be on the cards.

Cobb in the USA sell welded CDB's but I've heard of a few of them falling apart at high outputs

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 9/17/2003 7:02:13 PM]

hrubago

Price comes from official dealers an verified in Rallispec.
And now: closed or semiclosed block....... For me its not important.
I saw several damaged engines but no engine was damaged due block failure. Always, pistons, conrods or bearings. :-)
Also saw several racing engines with open block due inserts extension.

David_Wallis

Andy, they are welded ODB..

I reckon one of the 2.5's with head studs and a decent set of gaskets, compression ratio and cams with a garrett gt25 or Gt30 would be mad..

Funny thats exactly whats going in my Justy.

David

Andy.F

Only one of them ?

C

Justy?

facy grafting a full Evo drivetrain & engine into a Colt for me?

The Fixer

MRT just sent me a fax with there "big bore" stroker kit prices, anybody have any experience with there products?


MRT 2.2 stroker kit - (using your existing engine as a base)

Crankshaft $1105.35 AUD
Forged Rods (Double End Cap, Peened,ARP bolts) $1488.20 AUD
Main Brg Set $257.53 AUD
Forged Pistons 0.25 O/S $1465.80 AUD (thicker ring Lands)
Rings To Suit $274.33 AUD
Full Gasket Set $518.04 AUD

Total Price $5109.25 AUD = £2,112.62

or

2.4 L Stroker kit (needs 2.2 as a base) Short Motor Built.£3481.09
Includes closed deck block.

or

2.5 L Stroker kit needs 2.2 as a base) Short Motor Built.£4114.22
Includes closed deck block.

All currency conversions done at todays rates.

Certainly works out alot more EXPENSIVE than buying the USDM 2.5 block me thinks

Dont forget there would be shipping costs to add as well....


[Edited by RSVR Racer - because I forgot how to use the BOLD command( hangover is my excuse ) ]

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 9/18/2003 12:05:04 PM]

Adam M

RSVR,

i think you shoudl speak to R19KET, aka mark at lateral, before getting prices on stroker kits pistons and rods.

those prices are a joke by comparison.

To anyone considering an aftermarket welded closed 2.5 block, give it a lot of thought before you do, it can be very expensive, in many ways!

you should also check if they offset grind the 75mm crank to 79 or more mm. If they do they will be decreasing the big end bore from 52mm most likely to possibly 48mm or less. This will reduce the area of the oil film that supports the big end bearings.

The Fixer

Good Point Adam, special crank would be a better option. The Big Ends are already a weak area so the last thing anybody wants....is to make it weaker.

Documentation supplied doesn't actually state crank regrind its just described as

Crankshaft R Thrust V5-8 Stroker.

I will ask the question, new crank or a reground one? and also the size issue?

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 9/18/2003 12:10:14 PM]