SIDC Track day @ Knockhill ----> post event comments
15 September 2003, 08:15 AM
#66
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Ian
The first pic 'Scooby Convoy' could you mail that to me, without the number blanked out, looks like me right behind you.
.
Appreciated if you can, Ta
CT
[Edited by Corpulent Tosser - 9/15/2003 8:16:51 AM]
The first pic 'Scooby Convoy' could you mail that to me, without the number blanked out, looks like me right behind you.
.Appreciated if you can, Ta
CT
[Edited by Corpulent Tosser - 9/15/2003 8:16:51 AM]
15 September 2003, 09:01 AM
#67
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No, that was not your only option. You were told at the briefing (along with everyone else) that you should wait and flash your lights to indicate you want past and not tailgate or pass under braking. I was not driving the STI so I was not watching the mirrors but I didn't notice any flash of your lights or how long you were behind waiting to pass, was it any more than 2 corners ? In a 14400 second track session how inconvenient is it to wait for 30-40 secs to pass ?
As far as the spin goes, of course anyone can spin, part of the fun of track days is pushing your car and yourself to the limit. The problem was you knew a car was just immediately behind you that was driving fast, and by doing a power slide you risked a crash if he could not avoid you. It is safer to only try a power slide when the track is clear behind you for 50 yards or more. On the other hand maybe the partially wet track just caught you out, but it didn't look like that from where I was sitting or on the video I have seen.
Obviously you are not a crazy nutter that ignores all the rules and drives like a loony, but a little more patience would be nice.
As far as the spin goes, of course anyone can spin, part of the fun of track days is pushing your car and yourself to the limit. The problem was you knew a car was just immediately behind you that was driving fast, and by doing a power slide you risked a crash if he could not avoid you. It is safer to only try a power slide when the track is clear behind you for 50 yards or more. On the other hand maybe the partially wet track just caught you out, but it didn't look like that from where I was sitting or on the video I have seen.
Obviously you are not a crazy nutter that ignores all the rules and drives like a loony, but a little more patience would be nice.
Colin,
Flashed, yes, 2 corners, yes, no sign of letting pass, yes.
I guess I'd have to accept that I was a little impatient, especially because I didn't want the Radical to leave, as I was following him for the past 4 laps.
And you have to see this in perspective too.
There were a lot of cars.
And only 4 faster than me.
How many times do you think I encounter the same situation per lap?
After a while, I'm sure you can see that it gets to be automatic, he doesn't let you pass for a couple of corners, you go.
Not that it's correct, but I think you see what I mean.
On the powerslide side... sorry but Elises/Exiges don't have the torque to powerslide.
I was just a bit offline (because of the passing) and it was slightly damper there. It was not as if I was trying some looney thing at the wrong moment. It just happened because I didn't want to let the Radical go (but it did).
My fault.
I am taking all this as constructive criticism, we are all constantly learning.
Please feel free to come with me on some pax laps, it will give you an insight on how these cars behave.
Uldis
15 September 2003, 09:17 AM
#68
Hi guys,
can we stop some of these discussions and negative comments. Everyone I spoke to on the day, and who has since e-mailed me has said they throroughly enjoyed the event
Facts are:
Despite the tricky conditions, and a full grid fo 50 (well acatually 51) cars, only a couple of people spun, and there was no damage to any cars
Everyone had a great time, either on or off the track
No-one made contact with another car
OK it may have looked close a couple of times - some people (usually the track day junkies) are used to driving more closely to other cars, and some are less comfortable having a car close beside them.
Our safety record is still 100% - no-one has yet been hurt on one of our track days in over 5 years, and we've only ever had 3 cars which have spun off and damaged themselves.
In terms of complaints about driving standards (we always get some), this seemed to be one of the best behaved events we've had.
From time to time, people do make a small mistake, as after all they are driving their cars close to their limits, and we'd all prefer that they did this in the relative safety of the track, rather than the road.
With the wet and then drying conditions, everyone hopefully learned a great deal about their cars handling in all conditions.
At the end of the day, we raised £403 in donations for passenger laps, and I had loads of people (mostly members of the public) come up and thank me afterwards for arranging the passenger laps - they all thoroughly enjoyed the experience, and some were even asking when the next event was !
It's very easy to remember an incident that lasted a few seconds, but overall it didn't spoil anyone's enjoyment on the day, so please don't make a huge deal out of it - if people only post up negative things - then it will put people off attending and participating at these events, and when that happens, the events become uneconomical to run, and we all lose out.
John
can we stop some of these discussions and negative comments. Everyone I spoke to on the day, and who has since e-mailed me has said they throroughly enjoyed the event
Facts are:
Despite the tricky conditions, and a full grid fo 50 (well acatually 51) cars, only a couple of people spun, and there was no damage to any cars
Everyone had a great time, either on or off the track
No-one made contact with another car
OK it may have looked close a couple of times - some people (usually the track day junkies
) are used to driving more closely to other cars, and some are less comfortable having a car close beside them.Our safety record is still 100% - no-one has yet been hurt on one of our track days in over 5 years, and we've only ever had 3 cars which have spun off and damaged themselves.
In terms of complaints about driving standards (we always get some), this seemed to be one of the best behaved events we've had.
From time to time, people do make a small mistake, as after all they are driving their cars close to their limits, and we'd all prefer that they did this in the relative safety of the track, rather than the road.
With the wet and then drying conditions, everyone hopefully learned a great deal about their cars handling in all conditions.
At the end of the day, we raised £403 in donations for passenger laps, and I had loads of people (mostly members of the public) come up and thank me afterwards for arranging the passenger laps - they all thoroughly enjoyed the experience, and some were even asking when the next event was !
It's very easy to remember an incident that lasted a few seconds, but overall it didn't spoil anyone's enjoyment on the day, so please don't make a huge deal out of it - if people only post up negative things - then it will put people off attending and participating at these events, and when that happens, the events become uneconomical to run, and we all lose out.
John
15 September 2003, 10:08 AM
#69
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It was made very clear in the briefing that any problems were to be discussed with the orgainsers or the Marshalls there and then and not brought up afterwards.
Certainly don't want to put folk off comming on track as its is Sooooooooooooo Muchhhhhhhhhhhh FUNNNNNNNNNNNN
Certainly don't want to put folk off comming on track as its is Sooooooooooooo Muchhhhhhhhhhhh FUNNNNNNNNNNNN
15 September 2003, 10:23 AM
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Great day out as usual. The SIDC dates are the best organised days at Knockhill - thanks to John and the track etiquette displayed by most of the drivers. Hope I didn't give anyone any problems in my Radical - I'm happy to hang back normally and wait for a clear bit of track before passing safely.
lol at Uldis "following" me.........in yer dreams mate.
Ally
lol at Uldis "following" me.........in yer dreams mate.
Ally
15 September 2003, 12:44 PM
#77
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Just a quick thanx to Jools & Skyenet for the ride round the track, it's an excellent idea as well as raising some cash for a good cause.
As a passenger I did think that some of the overtaking manoeuveres were very 'enthusiastic' and at those kind of speeds there's no room for error. Are you allowed to overtake on both sides? Maybe the problems are due to different cars types being used as there is obviously a difference in performance and I believe this became a problem with track days run by the SIDC down souff. Single seaters and saloon cars don't mix.
Do you guys take out insurance on the day which would cover any damage?
Anyway, great fun and let's hope things remain safe & sensible (after all there were kids being taken round as well).
As a passenger I did think that some of the overtaking manoeuveres were very 'enthusiastic' and at those kind of speeds there's no room for error. Are you allowed to overtake on both sides? Maybe the problems are due to different cars types being used as there is obviously a difference in performance and I believe this became a problem with track days run by the SIDC down souff. Single seaters and saloon cars don't mix.
Do you guys take out insurance on the day which would cover any damage?
Anyway, great fun and let's hope things remain safe & sensible (after all there were kids being taken round as well).
15 September 2003, 12:57 PM
#78
Andy,
you'll find that most of the people do indeed have extra track insurance to cover them for any mishaps. There are a few who don't. You can get this from Egger Lawson on 0115 941 5255.
Speed differential between cars - simply hasn't been a problem for us. Yes some cars are way faster than others, but the variety at our events is one of the good things. If all the cars are of the same make/model, then:
a) although interesting for a short while, it quickly becomes boring.
b) the performance of the cars is virtually identical, and it's almost impossible to pass
c) the frustration caused by b can lead to even more dangerous overtaking moves, and people going off as they push harded and harder.
Almost everyone I've spoken to likes a good variety of cars on track, as it's good see how some cars compare to others. THe Elises for example aren't super quick up the straight, but boy can they go quickly around the twisty bits, which more than makes up for it.
The superfast cars don't cause any problems either, as they tend to have the cornering and braking abilities to match, and very experienced drivers. They can pick and choose safe points to pass everyone around the track.
Glad you enjoyed the passenger laps, and hope you come back again soon
John
you'll find that most of the people do indeed have extra track insurance to cover them for any mishaps. There are a few who don't. You can get this from Egger Lawson on 0115 941 5255.
Speed differential between cars - simply hasn't been a problem for us. Yes some cars are way faster than others, but the variety at our events is one of the good things. If all the cars are of the same make/model, then:
a) although interesting for a short while, it quickly becomes boring.
b) the performance of the cars is virtually identical, and it's almost impossible to pass
c) the frustration caused by b can lead to even more dangerous overtaking moves, and people going off as they push harded and harder.
Almost everyone I've spoken to likes a good variety of cars on track, as it's good see how some cars compare to others. THe Elises for example aren't super quick up the straight, but boy can they go quickly around the twisty bits, which more than makes up for it.
The superfast cars don't cause any problems either, as they tend to have the cornering and braking abilities to match, and very experienced drivers. They can pick and choose safe points to pass everyone around the track.
Glad you enjoyed the passenger laps, and hope you come back again soon
John
15 September 2003, 01:04 PM
#79
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Some good pics there...
Had a great day, was good to meet some new faces (drb5 and a few others)
Thanks to Kenny McGee for taking me out for some pax laps.
Only complaint i have is that there was nothing organised for later on in the day, after we left KH.
But whilst we were there, the organisers done a great job.
Had a great day, was good to meet some new faces (drb5 and a few others)
Thanks to Kenny McGee for taking me out for some pax laps.
Only complaint i have is that there was nothing organised for later on in the day, after we left KH.
But whilst we were there, the organisers done a great job.
15 September 2003, 01:10 PM
#80
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Thanks for giving me a chance to shake down the Ultima - first serious use its had since being completed and my first track day. Hope I did't hold up anyone too much on the bendy bits and braking areas, didn't want to get too heroic too soon as was finding limits of car and me. I thought handling was OK for something set up in a shed with string and a spirit level. Early laps were a tad alarming but much easier to deal with once it dried. Also nice to see a couple of photos posted here.
Excellent day, will come along again.
Excellent day, will come along again.
15 September 2003, 01:13 PM
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Andy
Glad you enjoyed the pax laps in the yellow smartie, I had a fantastic time and am still smilling, despite my MAC playing up all weekend.
Passing on both sides is becomming the norm on Knockhill days, though Saturday was the first time it was introduced at a SIDC day. It was a last minute thing as anybody attending the briefing will have noticed.
The main advantage, espcially for a novice, is that you don't have to make difficult manouvers to come off line and then back online to let faster cars by. I enjoyed being able to stay on the racing line all day Saturday and if a faster car was behind me I eased off the throttle a touch to let them by easier. I often used my indicator to show them that I was letting them by. This format was a new experience to many drivers and this probably led to some minor problems getting used to but in the end I feel it is better format.
I really enjoy the mix of cars on track and it does make it more intersting. Its really good to go out pax laps in a wide variety of cars and then your appreciate the view from other drivers. The acceleration, braking and handling on cars differs so widely. Most passengers are quite surprised just how little poke the standard and some non standard Elises have on the straights so would never get by much unless the other drivers ease of the throttle a touch.
Some insurances include track cover and some people get track cover for the day. Many others don't bother because of the Knockhill's good track record. SIDC events in particular are very safe.
Iain
EDIT: JohnS is also far quicker at replying to your post as I noticed when I hit submit and found that he had already replied to your questions.
[Edited by skyenet - 9/15/2003 1:18:29 PM]
Glad you enjoyed the pax laps in the yellow smartie, I had a fantastic time and am still smilling, despite my MAC playing up all weekend.
Passing on both sides is becomming the norm on Knockhill days, though Saturday was the first time it was introduced at a SIDC day. It was a last minute thing as anybody attending the briefing will have noticed.
The main advantage, espcially for a novice, is that you don't have to make difficult manouvers to come off line and then back online to let faster cars by. I enjoyed being able to stay on the racing line all day Saturday and if a faster car was behind me I eased off the throttle a touch to let them by easier. I often used my indicator to show them that I was letting them by. This format was a new experience to many drivers and this probably led to some minor problems getting used to but in the end I feel it is better format.
I really enjoy the mix of cars on track and it does make it more intersting. Its really good to go out pax laps in a wide variety of cars and then your appreciate the view from other drivers. The acceleration, braking and handling on cars differs so widely. Most passengers are quite surprised just how little poke the standard and some non standard Elises have on the straights so would never get by much unless the other drivers ease of the throttle a touch.
Some insurances include track cover and some people get track cover for the day. Many others don't bother because of the Knockhill's good track record. SIDC events in particular are very safe.
Iain
EDIT: JohnS is also far quicker at replying to your post as I noticed when I hit submit and found that he had already replied to your questions.
[Edited by skyenet - 9/15/2003 1:18:29 PM]
15 September 2003, 02:20 PM
#84
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LOL at Murray passing Ally's Radical
What's so funny about that ? It could happen, well maybe if he was on a slowing down lap
Seriously though I got an email from one of my passengers, a young lady from Middlesborough.
" Murray,
Thanks so much for taking me round the track on saturday, it was just awesome, I was speechless, didn't realise a road subaru could do such things! I can still smell the rubber and brakes!!! "
It is nice to be appreciated
15 September 2003, 04:28 PM
#86
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Must say a great day. I was spectating only but there was some great action on the track.
Very impressed by the Skyline and also the 22B I offered Part exchange but to no avail
Thanks to all who organised the day esp. John and also Pete for organising another "trouble free" convoy through from Dundee. Great turnout for such an early start.
I think this should definitely be made a yearly event as things can only get bigger and better.
Thanks again,
Ian
Very impressed by the Skyline and also the 22B I offered Part exchange but to no avail
Thanks to all who organised the day esp. John and also Pete for organising another "trouble free" convoy through from Dundee. Great turnout for such an early start.
I think this should definitely be made a yearly event as things can only get bigger and better.
Thanks again,
Ian
15 September 2003, 06:51 PM
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From a track day virgin.
What a fantastic day. I was smiling all weekend.It was good to see what the car can really do in a place where you do not have to worry about plod.
I was impressed with the standard of driving.everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves whilst showing enough consideration to let the faster cars past.Which must have been a big plus to the guy in the radical.that thing was fast,i passed me so easily i thought id stopped.
If anyone has any pics of my car red mica wrx reg. **51ARO i would greatly appreciate them as it would add to my happy memories of the day.
What a fantastic day. I was smiling all weekend.It was good to see what the car can really do in a place where you do not have to worry about plod.
I was impressed with the standard of driving.everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves whilst showing enough consideration to let the faster cars past.Which must have been a big plus to the guy in the radical.that thing was fast,i passed me so easily i thought id stopped.
If anyone has any pics of my car red mica wrx reg. **51ARO i would greatly appreciate them as it would add to my happy memories of the day.
16 September 2003, 12:36 AM
#89
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John
Thanks again for your wonderful organisation at these, and especially for this one, given there were so many cars there.
Thanks to everyone for not running into anyone else... even tho there were some well dodgy manouvres. I am NOT a fan of the pass on any side as it's impossible to know if the guy in front knows you are there or if you are coming thru' and what side you are coming... I had a few moments because of this.... no names no pack drills... but I think it will lead to an incident at some stage. For me there is nothing simpler than keeping an eye in your mirror and if a quicker car is there you indicate, pull off the racing line and let it thru'.... anyway that's my 2p...
The piccies on here covering the day are excellent and a good record of the event, thanks to all the Dave Bailly's.... BTW where are the video clips hosted?? I'd really like to see them.
Cheers and see you all again
Thanks again for your wonderful organisation at these, and especially for this one, given there were so many cars there.
Thanks to everyone for not running into anyone else... even tho there were some well dodgy manouvres. I am NOT a fan of the pass on any side as it's impossible to know if the guy in front knows you are there or if you are coming thru' and what side you are coming... I had a few moments because of this.... no names no pack drills... but I think it will lead to an incident at some stage. For me there is nothing simpler than keeping an eye in your mirror and if a quicker car is there you indicate, pull off the racing line and let it thru'.... anyway that's my 2p...
The piccies on here covering the day are excellent and a good record of the event, thanks to all the Dave Bailly's.... BTW where are the video clips hosted?? I'd really like to see them.
Cheers and see you all again
16 September 2003, 12:40 AM
#90
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Just got back home - 1300 miles fast and twistie trip! Had a wicked long weekend up in Scotland, and so glad we managed to make it for a couple of hours at McBigOne. Just in time for one lap (only 
) on the track, but it was fa-a-a-s-s-s-t
Great to meet you guys we went for lunch with (Dougster and co). I have a couple of pics of our motors - will post in a couple of days.
See you all at the next NBO at Lightwater Valley next June.
Had a wicked long weekend up in Scotland, and so glad we managed to make it for a couple of hours at McBigOne. Just in time for one lap (only ) on the track, but it was fa-a-a-s-s-s-t Great to meet you guys we went for lunch with (Dougster and co). I have a couple of pics of our motors - will post in a couple of days.
See you all at the next NBO at Lightwater Valley next June.