johnfelstead

I dont think Arron wants a RWD car, he just wants an Impreza that doesnt understeer, i.e one fitted with the DCCD transmition system.

Thats hardly asking a lot based on the fact the USA and Japanese markets have this available.

Arron knows how to drive and understands how much better the DCCD transmition is compared to what the UK/EU market recieves.

johnfelstead

my observation on the Acropolis rally was that the Impreza WRC has the best traction and out of the corner acceleration of any car, it doesnt continue to accelerate at the same rate though, so is down on torque compared to the oposition, it looked very stable.

The Impreza WRC is bang on the pace, petter was very fast in the twisty stuff, so the extra overhang percieved due to the body shape was not an issue at all IMHO.

I would say they have the best transmition system, equal suspension and brakes and are down on top end power, mid range torque a little.

It should have given Petter 2nd, despite him having a transmition failure dropping him back mid event.

johnfelstead

of course they were the only team using Pirelli, that could have aided out of corner traction also, as they are the best gravel tyre out there.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

I say bring back the classic shape with the newer refinements

TREV

Read that the next change is due 2007 and already being tested is a 3ltr turbo impreza with a standard 350BHP.
Don't sound too bad does it

Edcase

Trev - that is exactly what my sources say. The Imprezza will continue to get bigger / have bigger engines etc. and they are going to introduce a smaller 3 door car to carry on the WRC mantle.

There are also rumours of a UK special edition with twin scroll and dccd early next year. Of course, rumours are rumours

MurrayZA

I reckon the Jap market will keep to the Twin Scroll. For insurance purposes in Jap and I think some of Europe, a 2.0 is a lot cheaper than a 2.5 which I think will propogate to Aus, NZ and here in sunny South Africa. Not sure what the UK will get. Interesting to see the EVO runs plenty more boost than the STi, on the same fuel, so maybe there is some more vroom in the boxer 2.0... STi 9 may also only be 2 years away as the 7 lasted 2 years. Getting too expensive to do a new model every year. As for the WRC, the Saab 9-2 will test the water and then Scooby may well bring out a similar vehicle, with less interior quality and gadges, but hopefully 150kgs lighter to give the scooby a big edge. Well, thats my 2c...

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

2 door type 'C', lightweight & wide bodied, Prodrive 2.5Ltr with FMIC 350Bhp & 420Lbs, Prodrive 'ATD' system and £23K

Tony

JGRIFF

For those of you interested in the WRC, the following may have a bearing on the "short - light - 2 door" Scooby

Size matters for WR Cars
May 20, 2003
The FIA is considering the most far-reaching changes to the regulations dictating the size for World Rally Cars since the category was introduced in 1997.

The idea has been prompted by changes to ordinary road cars, which are getting larger. WR Cars are intended to be based on small-medium family cars - C-sector models in industry parlance - and the FIA therefore imposed a minimum length of four metres and a maximum width of 1770 millimetres.

However, as cars grow, four metres is getting close to the length of B-sector models such as VW Polos and Ford Fiestas, while C-sector cars such as Lancers and Focuses risk becoming excessively large and heavy. Indeed, Renault is now excluded from taking part in the World Rally Championship even if it wished to, as the Clio is too short and the new Megane is too wide, at 1777mm.

Most manufacturers would prefer to base WR Cars on C-sector models, but few wish to be quoted while the idea is at the discussion stage. Negotiations are liable to be delicate: Skoda is in the process of changing to a smaller car, the Fabia, which relies on bigger bumpers to meet the four-metre rule and could become ineligible if the minimum were extended, whereas Subaru doesn’t make a B-sector model.

It is not known whether increased size would prompt an increase in the 1230-kilogramme minimum weight.


So now you know, the likelihood is that new WRC cars will be closer in size to the current WRC'03. The last car that will be homologated under the current rules is the new Skoda Fabia WRC, on course to make its debut in Germany.

stephen30

I like the look of this one.

Steve

zoomzoom

that is one ugly spoiler.

Markus

Well, I would hope that the next STI car that comes here (meaning UK) is at least the same as the JDM car. Really do not think it is fair they get twinscroll and other bits that we don't. Personally from a marketing sense it would make sense to have one model, rather than a JDM and UK one, let alone the 2.5l for NA.

What would I like to see? well, as has been mentioned, something with the lightness of the Spec C but with some nice bits on it, such as stereo, 2.5l engine, sports exhaust system, HID, DSDC (or whatever it is) plus the funky system that was on a test scooby, now that would be a package, and yup, think someone mentioned this setup as well.

A new gen 22B would be the best thing though, as I think the blob-eye and bug-eye generations need a 'daddy' car, the classics have the 22B, and it is still a great car, but things have moved on a bit since it came out, so a new age 22B would be fantastic.

Edcase

*cough* P2 *cough*

scoobycar60

That sounds bad!, you want to get that seen to!

Edcase

LOL!

Steve vRS

Isn't that picture just a WRC car with the sponsor graphics photoshopped off? This was a thread on here a few days ago. The clue was the passenger seat being a lot lower than the driver's seat.

Steve

MurrayZA

Its a hard lesson to distribute a car to the world and then recall every model. Japan is where the new gadgets are tried and tested, on good, reliable fuel in a localized market. Looking at scooby history, if it works well, it usually finds its way into the global market.

johnfelstead

The USA STi (USDM STi 2.5T) is the only market using the 2.5T engine, so thats not a japanese tested and proven engine, FHI seem quite happy to release new ideas to a mass market outside Japan.

The DCCD (driver controlled Centre Diferential) is well proven technology, its been on the more specialist cars like my TypeRA for many years, the only downside was it took a bit of inteligence to use properly. This problem has been overcome now with the release of the DCCD-A computer controlled version (that has a manual overide), this is standard fit on the USDM STi and the Spec C STi8.

If the USA mass market can have this system, why isnt the STi Type UK getting this? Forget the 2.5T engine, thats not that significant in terms of performance, the DCCD-A transforms an understeering car into a drivers car with much more traction and better balance.

If Mike Wood says he is trying to get us the best, what do you think that best is? is sure isnt the UK spec car we have now. The UK car cost a hell of a lot more than the USDM model and it isnt close to the same spec, for example the USA version also gets Spec C BBS flow formed wheels as standard. UK buyers are being short changed, as usual.

I am not saying the UK STi is crap, its a great car, but it could be so much better and the kit to make it better is sat on the shelf at Subaru, it doesnt need testing or inventing.

It's also a bit bizzare that in order to get a decent engine spec you have to pay Prodrive an extra £2000 for the priveledge, why isnt the PPP spec stock power, as is the case in Japan and the USA.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

John,
Haven't Prodrive developed their own version of 'DCCD A' called 'ATD' but that's an optional extra one day

Weight is the biggest killer and haven't I put some on LOL the newage is a lot stonger but that carries a weight penalty needs a better Power to weight ratio

Tony

johnfelstead

ATD is much more complex and expensive than DCCD-A. DCCD-A is basically the same system as in my car, but has a control ECU to replace the thumbwheel potentiometer that varies the centre diff lock based on sensor inputs. The ATD system is actively controling the front and rear diff in a similar way to the WRC car, much more expensive and complex.

Yes the STi TypeUK is a heavy bugger compared to mine, but that doesnt change the fact the car would be substantially better with the DCCD-A installed.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

John,

I was unsure of the difference's so many thanks for clearing that up

DCCCD-A I'am sure they can produce a Hand manual to help us dumb English drivers can work it out LOL

Tony

greasemonkey

Before anyone gets too excited (one way or t'other) about these "road going WRC car" pix that Auto Express published, as Steve Sherwen's already pointed out, these are just pics of the real WRC car with the decals and roll cage Photoshopped out...

ARRON BIRD

How are you John my learned friend?????
Me drive???????
Cant drive for toffee mate.
Must admit I am really enjoying my STI.
Just want my springs on to hopefully dial out a little more of the understeer.
You have to go into a roundabout way to fast and lift off to have any fun
I got accused of doing a track day in it the other day due to my tyre wear.
My car has never been on track.
The road is a track!!!!
Pop by sometime matey if your in the Huntingdon area.
I know your a Northern monkey.

[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 6/13/2003 8:50:15 AM]

Pete Croney

My sources tell me that the next big change will be in the diffs. The next car will have a near fully active diff system. Not quite ATD, but close

This kind of mirrors WRC. When no more power could be extracted (Japan limit the power voluntarily on road cars and what we get is a derivative) then all the development went into the drivetrain.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Read John's post with interest. Almost every point he makes is important, and comes down to the same thing: we are being overcharged for inferior merchandise...............oh, what a surprise:

I know it isn't just FHI/IM......look at the Jap spec Civic: better spec than ours, made here, and exported there for less than we pay for ours[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Only two institutions can put a stop to this: Europe, and our own government. Neither is interested, and while ever people allow the profiteers to say "market forces" we're in the sh*t[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Alcazar

ARRON BIRD

Dont complain too much they have come down in price since the P1
And are cheaper than the Evo.
By the way I drove an FQ 300 Evo 8 the other day.
How`s this for dealer ignorance.........
The car had only done 125 miles. Brakes were verging on dangerous!!
Car still had the sound and emissions reducer fitted in the silencer. It just didnt feel quick but handled like a dream. Better turn in etc than my STI. Might have something to do with the intermediate type tyres !!!!!
Would I buy one.
If it had the same service intervals as my STI and cost the same then yes because in my opinion is a better drivers car. It turns in so crisply and the suspension is no harder in my opinion. I would like to drive it again with the silencer sorted and the brakes working properly and a few miles on the clock.

Harry_Boy

Hi Arron,

I drove an Evo 8 FQ 300 a couple of days ago. Done about 900 miles, and the brakes had bedded in nicely.

It was nice not to experience understeer on turn in, and the AYC really does make a difference.

Off boost, it was so much more eager than the Scoob - while on boost, it was truly awesome.....

Dream Weaver

Defo photoshopped WRC - look at the camber of the wheels, no road car would have that.

IMHO, Subaru should really design a super quick hatchback now - imagine a hatchback with 4WD and the Scooby Boxer engine - fantastic

johnfelstead

Hi Arron, will do.

Pete, the STi9 TypeUK (or whatever its name then) will have to improve in a BIG WAY in 2005, as i expect the new Focus Cosworth will be released then. This car has a fully active transmition system and 300BHP, it will blow the STi9 Type UK out of the water unless they give us what we have wanted for years (those of us who know what we are missing).

There are no excuses for the UK market getting a dumbed down version of the STi other than greed IMHO. The USA market is much bigger than the EU market, so that is where the major push is right now and that is where the consumer is being listened to. When Mitsubishi decided to introduce the EVO8 to that market, Subaru sat up and took notice and produced a stunning car in the USDM STi.

The USDM STi has a 2.5T engine producing 300BHP out of the box, it uses the Spec C DCCD-A gearbox and larger Rear diff with a 65/35 torque split (no understeer just like my RA), Brembo front and rear brakes, Spec C BBS wheels, Bridgestone high perf tyres etc etc. The only thing i dont like on that car is the fat arsed seats for the more portly American average.

The only way the UK is going to get a decent spec car is by people voting with their feet/money and buying a competitors car, such as the Focus Cosworth. It's easy to forget, but for many years the UK didnt get an STi at all, once people started to buy Jap imports Subaru had to respond, unfortunately they chose to do a P1 (look at the spec of that compared to an STi5 Type R) on us and give us an inferior package for more money.

What does the USDM STi cost? $30,995 on the road
That is a stagering £18,579 on current exchange rates

makes you think doesnt it.

ARRON BIRD

John where can I buy an American spec car????????