Witchfinder

British!=English

However, in context, I'm hard pressed to think of any Welsh or Scottish car companies of note.

cucumber

Everyone has missed the obvious..............colour........ even allowing for the 70's, some of the paint colours that BMC/Leyland cars were turned out in were dire, they rarely enhanced the potential enjoyment you could have from driving or made the cars look exciting.
I think the marketing etc was trying to appeal to some sort of mythical middle class suburban male.....2.4 children,smokes a pipe,neatly trimmed front lawn etc.......

Look at the new Mini.... a roaring success, but in reality its nothing special, its well designed, retro styled to go with the current trend, well built, decent performance, has a good image and its a desirable car and its....GERMAN!!

How is it the Germans can take a totally British icon, revamp it and make it into a storming success.......UNBLIEVABLE!!

MGJohn

Your 'German" Mini may be all those things but one thing it aint .... is a Mini ... it's too big. More Maxi sized ... did the krauts keep that name too? Hope not.

Mycroft

Cool...

[Edited by Mycroft - 5/23/2003 8:09:37 AM]

MGJohn

cucumber,

Your point about colours is very valid and one I've also made in the past. The Rover standard colours available throughout the 1990s were very low profile and understated. That's one of the many things MG-R have changed for the better since regaining control from the aliens. Choice available now much more vibrant Blues, Greens, Reds, Yellows and the obligatory Silver all real eyecatchers. I went for Trophy blue but would have been equally happy with Le Mans green.

MGJohn

GTI Wrote within his thread starter:

>> Who did kill the british car industry? RoverMG inparticular. <<

I still regard the alien controlled multi-national car manufacturers with plants here as forms of trojan horses. There are rumours that some were given huge financial incentives to do so. Still reserving judgement but there are many pointers to sew those seeds of suspicion. Some are doing quite well apparently. So some credit must at least go to the British workforce who turn the things out. However, it's simply a matter of time before continued dithering about 'were in-out' of the euro (which many alien controlled companies here want to join and put forward valid reasons) will accelerate a gradual exodus of these 'aliens'irrespective of if we join or not. Why, because it's cheaper to build them elsewhere and as long as they're allowed to sell them where it's dearest (no prizes for guessing where) that elsewhere exodus will take place. It's simply a matter of time.

Let's exaggerate a scenario to illustrate a point and stimulate further discussion. If as some suspect, all goods and services are cheaper and better made elsewhere and the exodus is complete, where will all the reasonably rewarded UK employment then come from for us Brits to enable us to continue paying over the odds for everything .... that's what I'd like to know ...

johnfelstead

All AWD cars have 3 diffs, one in the front, one in the rear, one in the middle.

It used to be British too, not English, Chrysler/Roots had a big factory in Glasgow where they made the Hillman Imp. There are also major car plants in Wales, Toyota has a large Engine plant there.

The motor industry is very much a non country based industry now, 1/4 of all Subaru's built are made in the USA for example. Toyota and Nissan have major plants in England, up in the Northeast for Nissan and in the midlands/wales for Toyota.

The German mini is still built in the UK.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Not nessercerily 3 diffs John.

If you have a centre viscous coupling, there is no need of a 3rd diff, such as Scoobs or Freelanders. Also some mid 80's range rovers used them - depending on the type of transfer box (Borg Warner if I recall).

Thought I'd point out LR use BMW engines in all of their Rangies

Stevie

John,

I know about the centre diff, I was thinking of the axles

AliB,

They have BMW engines for about another 2 years only

logiclee

Ali,

I think you will find the viscous coupling is in fact a limited slip differential so in fact the later LR's do have a centre diff.

Very early Landies Series 1, 2, 2A and 3 did not have a centre diff. They were rear wheel drive only until you needed AWD then by operating the low ratio gearlever or by pressing down another lever you engaged a dog gear that locked the front and rear propshafts with no differential at all.

Lee

jasontaylor

I don't see anyone having a pop at Honda for agreeing to the BMW deal, or for that matter using the resources of Rover to better their own product but also improve their import quotas. Which hasn’t exactly helped Rovers sales figures.

Most foreign car manufactures are in this country for one reason only and that's to increase the amount of cars they are allow to sell to the British public, by producing here they are allow almost unlimited access to the market place. If this weren't the case, every manufacture in the world would only have plants in the Far East where labour is a fraction of the price. Think about it, it makes sense.

For what it's worth Rover are in trouble again and looking for a buyer so that proves that a loud paint job and a spoiler doesn't make the product. The Rover 75 is a great car, found myself in one the other day, but if anything it screams BMW from every angle and yet there's something missing.

Unfortunately ladies, badge snobbery exists, average people would no more buy a Rover 75 over an X-Type Jag than they'd buy a VX220, when they were released, over an Elise. Both superior products, IMHO, but still they sold poorly. In fact there was even talk from some quarters that went along the lines of: "I'd have an Opel Speedster but I couldn't be seen in a VX220." Why the hell not?

The attention to detail and quality control of British manufactures is diabolical; TVR's and Lotus don't deserve to be on the road they make me ashamed to be British the quality of workmanship is so bad. Seriously go and have a real close look at a TVR or Elise. But why is it bad? Because we allow them to get away with it so therefore why should they change? What is the point of investing in a 16yr old for an apprenticeship to a high level of skill and expertise when you can put a notice in the job centre and get an YTS worker for pennies? The public won't stop buying your product, your new worker feels doesn't feel part of the company so they have no personal investment in the product therefore crap product.

This is the reason why Aston, one of the last companies in the country to hand build cars, have turned to robots and machines to produce the DB7, anybody with 2hrs training can operate them and the quality will stay the same.

And as for being able to buy cheaper abroad, well because of this governments complete ineptitude on managing the economy this is now the reality: http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,3,4,5,6,7&Board=UBB1&Number=9 3538&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

zoomzoom

I really hate to tell ya'll this, but since Detroit and Munich have taken over some of the UK's more noticable car makers, (Jag, Mini, Rolls, Range Rover) I have seen a whole lot more on my side of the Atlantic, especially the Jaguar. My forrester will soon have to move over and share the drive way with a Mini.

Mycroft

Aston will be making their engines in Germany soon...

The steering will come from a Ford unit rather the Vauxhall sourced unit as present.

Many cars are sold as 'thoroughbreds' but are in fact at heart mongrels.
.. Ferrari is just a big Fiat, the source of some of the parts is very 'lowly' indeed.
.. Aston will be a big Ford. The 'hand-built' element will be entirely confined to the Upholstery.
.. That is why the AMV8 will be 'cheap'... no largesse... it will be as mass produced as any BMW or Merc and the costs will passed on.

MGJohn

So .... who did KILL THE BRITISH CAR INDUSTRY ..... guess we all played a part here but some, above all have smoking guns in their hands still.

Back on the subject of sales and media (anti-brit negativity) and their effect on the car buying concepts of your average UK new car punter; an extract from a lengthy car conversation at my firm recently went along the lines something like this:

New MINI owner no. 1: My new MINI has been a load of trouble since I got it. Never again, typical british built rubbish!

Whereby that provoked new MINI owner no. 2 to pipe up. Mine's been a dream since day one which is what I've come to expect from BMW quality.

It's quite possible that the two cars involved rolled off the same production line within a minute or two of each other.

So who's correct? .... spot the BRAINWASHED .... hands up all those that said BOTH ... well done.