Guys thanks

Have a little digram of tips on were to port, from a nice lad

The funny thing is when I did not have good enougjh pressure to open the wg...the crrep only came in midrange and was worst in 4-5k rpm in 5&6th gear but over 5K it would drop down to 0.9bar, have now put the boost house on the inlet as a try.


Jan

 

I was just about to say that there has been no work done on the inner part of the wastegate "tunnel" (inside the tunnel further right from the turbine wheel) to open theinner area up to try to reduce Creep.

Russell

ps - J, is that a Super Zilla from Deadbolt.....sure looks like it from behind (oo-er!)

 

Boost creep will be worse at higher RPM, so if yours is dropping off higher up, either the turbo is too small to sustain the boost, or the WG is big enough.

Before you start to do more porting, I would take a look at the ECU boost control.

Mark.

 

Russell , yes it is

Mark , yeah I know will try it this weekend, and se how the out come will be
if I stil get creep.


Jan

 

Does anyone know the inducer size of the 18G and 20G wheels?

 

humax: http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/id1.html or http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm#c

Andrew...

 

Update - still going fine after the last headgasket was done. I've been running 1.25kg/cm^2 for 95% of the time, 1.4 for a bit of fun. The higher setting, particularly if you let it overboost a bit to 1.5 or 1.55 does give you a kick, think this turbo in the midrange needs a bit of boost to feel alive, it can feel a bit lazy running low boost. The 20G was a fair bit livelier low down and spooling up even at 4000-5000 RPM on transients and I think suits road use better.

Wondering what if anything to do next... if I run 1.5 I feel I have to keep checking the coolant level, which ruins enjoyment of the car. Can't do that and not have a spare car.

Ultimately I think a 2.33 would be a lot more fun even on this turbo, as I could run reasonable midrange boost. However, we don't know how the piston slap will cope with high mileage as most of the 2.33 are not clocking up big miles yet. 2.65 sounds appealing, but I'd be another guinea pig I feel. The 2.65 would help power band, and I would be tempted to use a GT35R although I think that would test every other part on the car to destruction for a daily driver. The 2.65 with its sleeves looks tough in some respects, I still wonder about the headgasket mating area. The 2.8 so far breaks cranks? I wonder where CustomScoobyION is with his 2.65? I wondered if using a 2.65 whether to use my existing ported P1 heads, and whether to send them to Crawford to get him to return an assembled long block with ARP studs and all setup so it won't leak.... The 2.33 would also help power band as I could rev to 8000+ rather than low 7s as now. If I ran crazy torque I would get into silly clutch territory possibly, although the NASIOC guys are starting to sort out Tiltons which sound quite streetable. Additionally, as I find out when I run 1.5 bar on this setup, the car skates around a lot more, and I think it would make the puny UK driveshafts and wheel bearings suffer more if there was wheel hop etc.

So the 1.25-1.4 setting is deceptively fast and smooth, but as always I am wondering if I want more.

The turbo is actually going to be more hassle than the engine I think, unless a UK supplier can put me together a complete RHD GT30R-12 kit with original housings with a plumbed in external wastegate, up/down pipes, oil/water lines, inlet tract, intercooler adaptor pipes, and that I know would fit around my six speed and APS FMIC pipes and I can get smooth MAF readings from a 4" inlet.

I know Andy's setup spools up better than mine despite less capacity and a bigger turbo - I think the TMIC, 4" inlet, native housings, external wastegate all probably help. It is how much of the hassle I want to have sorting it out.

So:

1. Continue as is
2. Refit 20G
3. Do a 2.33/GT30R
4. Buy another car... a bit tempted by an E55 AMG, would consider an E60 M5 (although sounds as if I'd need to change the brakes) if I hadn't read the estimated first year depreciation will probably be £12-13000. Pork is too flash. Don't want to get into a new age STi or Evo because of the extra weight - I don't think there is enough engine capacity to make up for it to give a nice power band of the sort I'm looking for. If the Scooby went a bit quicker like it does when I run the higher boost setting I could forgive more its exhaust noise, I'm happy with the car otherwise.

Anyone know if there is a bolt on turbo that will run more power than the iON P450 - easy 500 at Star/Dastek on Optimax would be nice - and spool up a bit better? I think Paul's Zilla was about this but IIRC it had a few surge issues as he went quite compressor heavy? I am resigned to going rotated mount and doing it properly to be honest, but I want a kit rather than spending months getting people to fabricate stuff. I've not worked out the pros and cons of all the kits available yet, and I find the smokescreen with proper Garrett housing vs not a bit confusing! I don't want to buy a turbo that promises to be a pukka GT30R and find it is the same as the iON. Going with what we know and copying Andy's setup is always a winner

Any thoughts welcomed.

 

1. and 2. Unlikely, you always seem to be developing the car
3. Greater capacity, high revs, and true GT30R install would be interesting
4. E46 M3 for GBP 25K plus 2K on AP Racing Brakes ? I know the E60 M5 will have 507 bhp, but does weigh 1830 kg ( CAR Nov 2004 )

 

The old 20G setup (albeit with a five speed, but that is an option again) got to 125mph in wet in similar time that the M3 takes to get to 100mph in the dry though. Some typical in gear times were dispatched in about half the time that an M3 would require. Nice car, but it wouldn't be a step up in performance.

 

John, my offer still stands re the test of the GT30R on your 2.5, for a trial period.

Up pipe and downpipe already available, and i have my original aps pipework from the turbo to the cast pipe by the headers, so can butcher that for you (dont mind), no other part of the aps pipework needs to be altered.

You can even borrow my plug in motec M800 (no wiring loom needed)if you like, to save you needing the maf signal.

That should give a test period to see if you want to go down that route.

Steven

 

I am getting more tempted by your very kind offer Steven

Can you post or direct me to, or email me an underbonnet pic of your recent setup? You turned the inlet manifold around I think?

Two quick questions on the setup you were running:

1. Is the uppipe flexible and does it match small or large bore headers?
2. What is the bottom of the downpipe like where it mates to the centre section? Is it just a two bolt 3" flange in the normal position?

 

My 2.65 Litre from Crawford is running superbly thanks John.

iON P650 turbo will be joining it later once I have done everything else. 2.65 is still in the Legacy!

2.8 Litre keeps breaking cranks? Any more info please?

Appreciated
Jon.

 

If that is your benchmark it is hard to see what would be a step up !

 

you know my thoughts on this but will add in the interest of the thread.

1.this gets my vote, running at a "sensible" level until something fails. perhaps by that time , there is a head gasket cure or some of these big power RCM cars are running without head gasket failure. I am sure everyone will agree that at the moment they are the best subaru builders in the UK, so if any company can get the job done using the phase2 head castings , rather than USDM heads, it is them.

2.I do not see the point of refitting the 20g. IMO the best set-up was the 2.5,20g and 5speed PAR ratios for a refined and balanced package. the ION does exactly what you wanted it to. it matches the 20g without the need for octane/additives. it might not do 450bhp on any rollers , now that you no-longer have the ecutek software to keep things "pushed" but it clearly flows more. the boost gauge may not snap round like it did with the 20g but the ION is doing its job higher up , to make up for it. I still say the added lag helps give a bit of think time in the lower gears before the limiter

3.perhaps if the 2.5 is a failure for big power but IMO a big build is a complete waste in a road only car , which yours is now. it seems pointless to me to want something as lag free and responsive as a 2litre with a td04 but with twice the power when truth is , for a road car , you keep the toe down for a few seconds and your getting points, a bit longer and the court appearance or something far worse I think you have done the right thing by keeping as many off the shelf ,bolt on parts as possible , to keep any time off road to a min. like fitting the P450 so that should there be a turbo issue a standard one could be fitted to keep you going , the P1 heads should anything happen there and a cheap standard block with quiet pistons.

4.still say this is a full of **** excuse when talking road cars. better build quality,sound deadening, diffs,chassis and those larger wheel bearings all add up.

 

You're probably right T-uk, usually are

Would like a shiny new car, but the weight difference between the two is going to need another 350-400cc displacement or another 1000 RPM on the top to get the same acceleration at road legal speeds with the same flexibility - of course power and drag would take over at the top end, but without a decent sized &/or revving engine making the power, that is all the car would be, a top end monster unsuitable for the road, bloated with too small an engine to drag it along. Perhaps any step from here would be that, if indeed I haven't caused that already? Don't want to swallow the £8k first year depreciation but I would want the better ride and suspension/track/castor/DCCD-A/wheel/tyre changes on the 05. If the 1.5 ton models had a 3.0 turbo I would be banging the doors down. The WR1 I was in with 320 BHP would need a LOT more power to interest me and that was quite narrow on the power band already IMHO. I don't think it would feel very special with 400 BHP.

I feel a heavier new car could undo any further tuning work I could throw at it in one way or another. For a man who goes to the bathroom and strips out the tools and spare before going to Crail I am sure you will agree, except now you'd have 200 kg of difference. The new cars are nice for the road agreed, but I only get cross with the lack of refinement because I feel the engine isn't strong enough to take advantage of the torque delivery I could have. I always felt before I could let rip in the midrange, hence why I ran quite inappropriate levels of boost on the 2.0, but at least it felt lively If it feels performance limited AND unrefined that is when I start thinking of BMWs The advantages the newer cars have in terms of mechanical grip and balance are probably needed to transmit the commensurate increase in torque and power they need to the road to make up for the weight difference? I don't see much difference in lap times between say WR1 and P1 running similar power to weight and similar type of tyres? Evo certainly seemed to prefer the P1 to the WR1 when comparing on track and road IIRC.

 

Jon, see the 2.8 thread on NASIOC, the crank was split about half way down. Can you give a report on your impressions of the 2.65 in terms of noise, spool up, driveability etc?

 

More than welcome to have a go in my 2003 STI once it is complete John.

Looking at thread now

If you are interested in the 2.65 review more than welcome to call me. Will PM you my mobile no.

Jon.

 

Oh I can't PM you.

07740047043.

Jon.

 

I have pauls Turbo on my 2.5, i have a smaller diameter inlet pipe to pauls old one and have no issues with surge at 1.8bar. It has an 80mm inlet and my inlet pipe reduces to approx 60mm before the turbo.
IIRC pauls old inlet was 80mm all the way, this same inlet pipe caused Surge on the 20G.

My AVCR is set to almost the same duty cycle all the way across the board so it isnt set for lower boost etc low down which would help surge if there was any.

I am still unsure why (from an engineering point of view) but i believe, that the RPM limit is linked to the Head gasket problems. I am only hearing head gasket probs with 7250+ limits.

Rob

 

Can you post or direct me to, or email me an underbonnet pic of your recent setup? You turned the inlet manifold around I think?

Long time since i have seen this..

Simon now has the fmic and all the pipework, but it wouldnt take much to get yours to connect up, just a small alteration from turbo to the intercooler pipe and it will be sorted.

Two quick questions on the setup you were running:

1. Is the uppipe flexible and does it match small or large bore headers?

Solid up pipe, and designed to match the large bore headers, the gasket has never leaked once.

2. What is the bottom of the downpipe like where it mates to the centre section? Is it just a two bolt 3" flange in the normal position?

Two bolt 3" flange just like a normal 3" downpipe.



Steven

 

off topic ...

P20SPD please could you post, or provide a link to how you achieved such a neat rotated turbo mount and intercooler ? Do you have air con ?

 

Thanks Rob, Steven, Jon. Jon I've noted your number and will give you a call at a civilised hour

 

Steven, I can't tell if that wastegate is plumbed back into the downpipe? If not, what is the noise level like?

 

IIRC Steven is using one of the Lateral Performance Up and Downpipes with his GT30R to clock it round like he has shown in the pics.

I have a similar kit although in my case the up-pipe has a slip joint at the mounting flange where it bolts to the exhaust manifold.

 

No worries John.

Jon.

 

Madou, as Tim says, it can be bought from Mark at Lateral Performance. The up pipe is one of the 1st ones, and they now come with a slip joint.

John, its not plumbed in on that picture, nor is it now, although since that picture i added a exhaust pipe to the wastegate, which quietened it quite a bit. The intention is to replumb it back into the bottom of the down pipe, as noise was a little loud, but addictive.

 

lol

 

It sounded fooking great.. on someone else's car.. lol..

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&page=2&pp=25

"I assume that you are speaking of the 2.8L motor that was in I-Speeds car, as my "first" 2.8L motor was removed from the car with the crank intact.
But the engine was a little tired from the months of thrashing, and the sand that it ingested while my son was playing with it in the sand dunes

Dam kids!"

 

Steven

I noticed a couple of SH Garrett GT30 for sale in the States in recent months and I was wondering what version you are using (presuming different versions exist)

Mark A