John, how much for `safeguard`? How does it interface with the ECU?

.......found it! $495?

[Edited by JamesS - 12/16/2003 8:03:35 AM]

 

Pretty much as that Skassa.

It intercepts the connections from the ECU to the coil packs.

 

We ran some AP22 datalogs on this car today.
The results looked very promising indeed. Normally I subtract 0.2 secs from the AP 1/4 mile times as there is no allowance for 'roll out' ie the 12" or so that the car moves before the timing beam is triggered at a drag meet. This adjustment has aligned my AP22 times with recent Crail and Elvington results.
So, considering that we also had 2 people on board (worth another 0.2 sec) the times were almost identical to my own best results Not bad for a damp surface

0 - 100 in 8.75 ain't to shabby either !!

The first set of numbers are from the same car when it was a 2.0 running approx 330 bhp.

UK Impreza Approx 330 bhp/310 lb-ft
60 ft 2.95s 31.3mph
330 ft 6.61s 66.4mph
1/8 Mile 9.48s 89.2mph
1/4 Mile 13.82s 102.5mph

0-60MPH 5.53s
0-100MPH 11.82s


UK Impreza Approx 430 bhp 400lb-ft
Run 1
60 ft 2.13s 37.4mph
330 ft 5.45s 72.6mph
1/8 Mile 8.05s 96.8mph
1/4 Mile 12.12s 124.9mph

0-60MPH 3.97s
0-100MPH 8.75s

UK Impreza Approx 430 bhp 400lb-ft
Run 2
60 ft 2.25s 40.3mph
330 ft 5.53s 71.2mph
1/8 Mile 8.20s 96.9mph
1/4 Mile 12.29s 124.9mph

0-60MPH 4.16s
0-100MPH 9.01s

3rd gear 40 – 90 mph
Start Speed 40.0mph
mph s bhp wheels
50.0 0.93 241
60.0 1.77 299
70.0 2.64 336
80.0 3.62 342
90.0 4.83 316

Pk Power: 77.8mph 350bhp wheels

 

Still with unmodified TD05 hot side?

Mark.

 

Ported to suit the 50mm uppipe, otherwise std......but not for much longer

 

Sorry John, It´s a bit off topic......

Andy,

What do you think an uppipe of 60 mm which is tapered to 41 mm inside diameter, is restricting power when used with a TD05 20G turbo that you supplied?

I have had some very nice results with this car (eurospec MY99, with 550 cc injectors, TD05 20G and Supersprint manifold). At only 1.2 bar of boost it did 285 BHP and 260 LbFt at the wheels on Road Dyno. When using more boost, I head to retard timing quite a lot to avoid knock and only midrange power increased. (tested fueling everything between 10.5 and 11.5 AFR) Something must holding us back, I think it´s the small diameter of the uppipe. What is your oppinion?

P.S. The standard intake hose from MAF to turbo is used, which doesn´t look very well eather. (not very nice connection to the turbo)

 

sg72 is using a standard turbo inlet pipe with cone filter to get 400+ BHP with a 20G and HKS headers.

 

Mark,
I have been thinking the same ,as i also have a Supersprint manifold,

If sg72 is using the HKS manifold,is he then still using the oe uppipe.

And how big is the oe uppipe.

On mine with a gteh competion,i get only 292,5hk atw,that is with 1,45bar boost

But the G-tech can´t calkulate in the wind resitens

Skassa

[Edited by Denmark - 12/18/2003 10:35:15 AM]

 

Today I looked again to this car, the connection from the standard intake hose to the turbo looked very bad. The turbo is offset to the left of the car causing a restiction of the inlet diameter, it doesn´t look nice! I tried to fix it with moving the hose, but that was impossible. Furthermore a less restrictive air filter gave about 8 HP of top end power, but still no more power above 1.3 bar of boost.

We will change the inlethose and fit a less restrictive uppipe in the near future, than we will know the difference!

Mark.

 

Mark,

I have been also trying different turbo inlet hoses, but at the end of the day with the later style phase 1 inlet manifold, or the phase 2 unit, it is very very hard to fit a nice unit. BUT when I used the early MY96 inlet manifold, it let me use a much better inlet hose which I made with some samco hoses.

Hope that Andy can post some pictures of the turbo inlet hose of his engine, so that we can get an idea (have lost my digital camera ), and if you are going to try an aftermarket unit go for the AVO/BPM inlet hose.

Carlos H.

 

Mark (EMS) as your request I'll send a road dyno later. The best I got out of it with realistic weight and without bald tyres (which falsely increase the readings by 10 WHP) was about 310 WHP on 98 RON with no additives. I used about 11.5:1, quite retarded, and about 1.5 bar all the way up. This was with aftermarket uppipe, ported OEM headers, APS CAI, MRT inlet pipe, 3 to 2.5 inch downpipe, 2.5 inch centre and back section.

This setup had quite a smooth entry from uppipe to exhaust housing, and it was all quite nicely ported out. I suspect this might be the issue assuming the fundamentals of the engine are OK?

[Edited by john banks - 12/18/2003 2:58:51 PM]

 

Then the supersprint manifold must be crap,

How big is the uppipe on the Gruppe-s headers?


Skassa

 

Don't know, but 41mm is quite small. The Gruppe-S pipe is massive - too big for a 2.0 IMHO. But we are all surmising from looking at parts of our engines and deciding where the bottlenecks are because we don't have the R&D funds to tell. We were all impressed how sg72's car goes at over 400 BHP quite easily with a supposedly horrible standard inlet pipe.

 

at the end of the day, this is the best possible inlet to the turbo :


Carlos H.

 

I also still got the filter from the KN 57i kit,
I think i will try to change that first.

Skassa

 

Very impressed Carlos. Will that set up blister the paint on the inner wing?????? (Do not know how to do smiles)
Denmark: The APS CAK is only rated around 425/450cfm. Changing mine resulted in good power gains.

 

shouldnt do as the compressor side doesnt get that warm and the exhaust side is a fair way away..

fookin left hand drive cars..

Looks much like mine and a few others, eh carlos..

oh forgot you were there when I bolted it on

David

 

Mark V - I don't think this would be a problem, the std inlet to the turbine is 42mm and a smooth taper leading to this should lead to an increased velocity approaching the scroll.
More likely the problem is the cat which is still on this car I believe ? The 05 turbine is most likely the limiting item in the TD05/06-20G. The last thing it needs is any backpressure in the exhaust to decrease its efficiency.
Any chance you can measure the exhaust gas backpressure either before or after the turbine ?

Andy

 

I will in this weekend try to make a conus to the new kn filter(from a supra),but it´s a bit triggy as the filter has a 150mm hole,wich i need to make down to 90mm..

I will see how it goes.

Skassa

 

Andy,

I didn´t know about the cat still in place (It´s a high flow version though) as I am only responsible for the mapping of the car. I did give some tips in the past (also advised him to take "your" turbo about 1 year ago....) but the setup is mainly the choice of the owner.

If the entrance of the turbine is 42 mm, it´s smaller as the P20 housing from IHI. I measured that one at about 45 mm. Are you 100% sure about the 42 mm?

I heard from my customer he had fixed his inlet pipe to the turbo last night, from what he told me that was quite an improvement over the blocked inlet hose he had on while mapping. I have to do over the measurements.

Mark.

 

Mark

Not 100% sure without measuring it again, that figure was from memory. The std uppipe is only approx 35mm bore at its tightest and thats good for 350+bhp
Increasing to 41mm is more than 30% increase in area, that's why I don't think that it's a major issue.
The inlet to the compressor is more critical, we have had over 400 bhp on the std inlet pipe although this was on an Sti.

Andy

 

Perhaps the 290 WHP we have now is not too bad concerning the circumstances......... (boost at max. HP is "only" 1.3 bar) In my opinion it´s enough, but my customer..........

P.S. I won´t hyjack this tread anymore after this!

Mark.

 

Don't worry it is all interesting.

See my update on MAP conversion in the ECU forum on 22b.

 

Just to add that My WRX broke 400 on std inlet pipe

Rob

 

I did, interesting! (but I don't have the time to get involved)

But, I still like the Unichip solution! The costs are perhaps a bit higher, but it's very easy to set up and you can change timing and fueling "on the fly". I used standard AE801 fueling tables and mapped fueling in the Unichip. Small changes in ignition can be "tested" very easily also before programming them in the JECS!

Mark.

 

Having been threatened with a shovel by T-uk I have agreed to try and restrict further work on this project to stick ridigly to my targets, and to abandon chasing 450 BHP at Star if I can't quite make it (realistic target 430-450) with forthcoming addition of water injection and larger induction cone (shorter inlet tract also with no MAF sensor).

The very sensible reasoning behind this agreement (which may be broken) is that the car drives so nicely on the road we don't want me turning it into another potentially unreliable and undriveable monster.

Having sampled the general competence and tractability in the snow tonight I think this is a very good idea... at least today

Motul synthetic 15W50 now in and we are somewhere between 2500 and 3000 miles on this engine. Redline Shockproof is in the gearbox, the clutch is not slipping, and the engine has only seen short lived detonation events of any significance about 3 or 4 times now, and at worst will see very brief transitional det now the J&S is on and working so well. Engine is loosening up nicely. Idle is at +100 RPM on Delta Dash so about 850-900 RPM and it is smooth enough at 14.7:1 closed loop on these rather nice 740s.

Charcoal canister has been junked to free up some space in the engine bay.

Some ICE gear (one amp, heavy sub and another amp removed) will be refitted when repair parts for the broken ribbon cable on the headunit arrive.

Few gauges to tidy up and put in a pod.

Methanol to source from Jennychem.

Water injection kit awaited.

Driver's side front CV joint +- driveshaft to be sourced and fitted because of recent clicking.

 

I havent been on here much lately....John, you mention the J+S det safegaurd working well??
Are you actually using it now to control your igniton timing, or still only testing it to see how it works ??

 

Yes using it to control ignition timing.

 

I take it you would reccomend it then ?? Do you think it is giving more power, more safety ??
Is it easy to use ? If it does work well, then Id like to give it a try on my V8.

Where did you get it from ??

Thanks, Stevie

 

http://www.jandssafeguard.com

They do 4 coil versions that work on a V8 Mustang running wasted spark.

Email your requirements to J&S they are very helpful.

Price for mine worked out almost the dollar price in pounds once currency and import/tax fees paid.

From initial testing I did I think I am making 5-7% extra power on the same octane by being able to run the best case rather than worst case timing. On my Subaru engine it copes well with a map which is 4 to 5 degrees "too" advanced compared with normal mapping and keeps the det cans and knocklink pretty quiet.