EMS

Ray,

It wasnīt my car (that one has a little more BHP@wheels!).

The euro spec. STi8 is quoted for (about) 265 BHP and 250 LbFt.

Mark.

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

Steve,
I do think that there is an error somewhere in what my car is putting out.
I do not think that with the mods i have it can justify the FWHP it scould produce with the WHP itīs showing
A friend here in Denmark has a measered 305FLWP on standard td04,full exhaust,pace prototype frountmount!!!!! , HKS evc at 1,2bar but it canīt hold i`t!
My car is 0,8sec quicker on 402m and, my exit speed is 14km/t faster..

Skassa

Razor2001

Thanks EMS for clarification.

Come on guys, keep um coming. Would love to see what a standard UK STI-7 and PPP UK STi-7 can do

Dave-T-S, you got a delta dash ?

Cheers,
Ray

Razor2001

bttt....don't want this to get lost

mutant_matt

Ray,

Dave doesn't have DD - I have logged all the DD runs he has done (usually back to back, with my (standard) car).

I'll have a go with this when the snow clears and see if I can convince Dave to also (though he's leaving the fold soon I believe ).

Matt

Razor2001

Thanks for the info Matt.

Going over to the dark side ?

Cheers,
Ray

mutant_matt

No Ray,

He's trying to go over to the broken down side but aparently he's even having trouble with the purchase ......

Matt

rroberrto

Here's my lightly modded my00 with standard td04, tubular header plus 3-inch catless turbo back, sti flywheel, cone filter and a Dawes holding up to 1.15 bar and tailing off toward redline, all governed by an off-the-shelf Tek1.

Dyno Test: C:\Documents and Settings\Robert\Ūā*ą\92-2-2.DDF
================================================== =========

Maximum Wheel Power: 213.7 BHP @ 5573 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 224.4 LbFt @ 4027 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 164.4 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 166.7 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 3.3 seconds
40 - 60mph = 2.6 seconds
50 - 70mph = 2.4 seconds
60 - 80mph = 2.6 seconds

Vehicle Mass: 1300kg (near empty tank, 70 kgs driver)
Drag Co-efficient: 0.35
Frontal Area: 2.20 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 205/50/16
Rev Limit: 7100
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 95 mph

----------------------------------------------------------

As a matter of fact i believe there are some more horses to be released up top if the fuelling can be leaned out a little bit
further. With the Link tuned to .88~.89 Lambda voltage the butt-o-meter says the car's running a tad stronger than with the Tek1.

What do you guys think? Is 213 PAW good? Come on, let's see some more lightly modded my00 logs.

Robert

dowser

My my00 running 1.3 bar and no overboost on stock TMIC - weight is 1440kg with full tank and me, I reduced this to 1400kg as 3rd of tank gone. Think I went a little too far - how much does petrol weigh?!

Just a comment - I prefer 4th gear runs to 3rd, this more closely ties in with Rolling Road runs....and is less stressful on gearbox

Oh, Delta Dyno trails my AP figures by around 10 hp.

3rd Gear;
---------
Maximum Wheel Power: 255.3 BHP @ 6377 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 241.8 LbFt @ 4692 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 182.4 BHP per ton

4th Gear;
---------
Maximum Wheel Power: 273.0 BHP @ 6553 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 248.0 LbFt @ 4544 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 195.0 BHP per ton

I'll try and get figures for my normal boost map (1.5 bar mid-range) later this week.

Richard

rroberrto

hi dowser

** 4th Gear;
** ---------
** Maximum Wheel Power: 273.0 BHP @ 6553 RPM

dare i assume you were cheating? Judging from the wheel power and the RPM this ain't no your garden-variety MY00, and 'lightly' modded it most certain is not :O What are your mods?

And the TMIC is holding you back! You'll certainly benefit from a lower intake charge temp by switching to a proper (with this sort of power) FMIC!

Robert

dowser

No, sorry, not lightly modded - td05 front entry, maxim manifold, inlet pipe and catch tank as well as usual breathing/safety mods. Plus a remap.

Peak power is limited by IDC's currently (95% on 440's), but more torque will come when I put the normal boost map back on.

There are a few around running comfortably more that this on stock internals

Richard

nom

273ATW is around 350 flywheel - not bad at all, and not very common for MY00!
Mind you, I imagine it's pretty chilly for you at the moment! Mmmm nice charge temperature

I'm suprised about the difference in 3rd/4th gear runs, though. Using a different package (DataLogLab instead of the Tek one) I (repeatably) got numbers within 1bhp of each other in 3rd & 4th; seeming that the Tek calculations are based on the info from DataLogLab, I'd have expected the values to have the same, tiny varience?

john banks

Now I have a gearbox back in, I am hoping to do some tests soon Fitted inlet pipe and uppipe and instead of the boost going down from 6000 RPM now it goes up

What weight to put in? MY00 with 25kg of ICE and a full fuel tank, 85 kg driver. 1410 kg or am I making it too heavy?

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

JB,
My my99 weighs 1245kg with full tank,with no tools or sparewheel and just the odinary stereo with better speakers front and rear!!


Skassa

john banks

Well officially the Euros/UK are 1235 kg. I always thought this was full fluid levels. So adding me 85kg and ICE 25kg makes it 1345 kg. Quite a big difference! What am I going to use to get my 300 BHP at the wheels (I won't make it if I put too low a weight in but I don't want to kid myself )

I reckon a full (60 litre) tank of fuel weighs 40kg based on the density of petrol. I have my spare wheel and tools still in. So what weight should I put in guys?

dowser

My wagon came in at 1440kg with me and a full tank of gas, as registered at a local rubbish dump (in CH, man must pay to throw stuff away ).

My logbook registers weight of a stock my00 wagon as 1400kg empty - I can only assume my suspension saved more weight than the aftermarket brakes and wheels added! Oh, suppose the exhaust is lighter too...and there's a few bits that have been thrown out!

Richard

john banks

How much do you weigh?

john banks

If Denmark put his tools and spare wheel back it might be 1260, plus me and my ICE would make it 1370! I thought 1410, Dowsers suggests 1405 (-35kg for saloon vs wagon) but would need to add my ICE 25 kg and work out any weight difference between Richard and myself

1400 kg seems to be in about the middle of all the estimates for an ICEd up MY00 with an average bloke in it?

dowser

I'm 90-95kg's If a full tank of gas weighs only 40kg, that's what I took off mine because of being a 3rd empty

The Swiss log book for a car has to include the weight (1400kg) - but I don't know if that's with a tank of gas or not.

Ultimately, you need to weigh your own car - all the mods add up, I guess.

I do know that a few friends have completely gutted their interiors ready for our 'Street Car' challenge this year - worth around 100kg and makes a huge difference if the stripped-out bog standard my94 I drove is anything to go by. Even the suspension felt perfect!

Richard

gjohn9

There [bold]is[/bold] a difference in drivetrain losses for each gear compared to the closest one to 1:1 (4th typically). Data Log Lab contains user-definable relative percentages to account for this, which then allow you to perform your power runs in the most convenient gear.

Of course, the higher the gear, the more time the turbo's got to spool up as well, so your torque build-up is likely to occur slightly earlier, and the less likely you are to have wheel spin.

Glenn

john banks

I assumed 1420kg, this was with 40kg in the boot (2 amps, big sub enclosure, the odd turbo and things ) and a brim full tank of fuel (40kg) and me 85kg. Will be going to Star on Sunday to see how it compares. Really not sure on the weights! Also the use of anything about light smoothing seems to knock the figures, prefer to go by the trend of the graph.

Maximum Wheel Power: 309.3 BHP @ 6612 RPM
Maximum Wheel Torque: 296.8 LbFt @ 5045 RPM
Power to weight ratio: 217.8 BHP per ton

Terminal velocity due to power: 188.6 mph

In Gear Acceleration:
30 - 50mph = 3.1 seconds
40 - 60mph = 2.2 seconds
50 - 70mph = 2.1 seconds
60 - 80mph = 2.2 seconds
70 - 90mph = 2.4 seconds

Vehicle Mass: 1420kg
Drag Co-efficient: 0.35
Frontal Area: 2.20 square metres
Wheel/Tyre Setup: 215/40/17
Rev Limit: 7100
Test gear: 3
Max Speed of gear: 94 mph

Looks to me off the unsmoothed graph more like 280 lbft and 300 BHP. I've yet to do the ignition timing optimisation



Spec of the car is:

MY00 Euro spec turbo
Magnex full decat
Tim Whiteside uppipe (lagged)
Ported OEM headers
Tek 3 running 1.5 bar held to 6000 RPM using 3 port solenoid with no restrictors, AFR 11.8:1 until 6400 RPM when it richens for safety
TD05 straight out of a scrapyard with a machined front cover and a ported exhaust housing actuator tightened 4 turns
Plain optimax no additives yet
APS FMIC
APS induction kit
Cusco catch can
Scoobymania inlet pipe
Standard engine
Replacement standard gearbox
Standard clutch
Walbro fuel pump
550cc injectors

Interesting to compare an optimally setup TD04 hybrid (Stephen Done) with a TD05 front entry (mine) from 2000-3300 RPM (30-50 in 3rd). They are basically the same or very slightly in favour of the TD05. This implies to me that the TD05 is a rather good all rounder, especially when it was Ģ150+VAT from a scrapyard, plus Andy F has had some front covers knocked up for Ģ70. A bit of porting work on the exhaust housing and you have quite a good turbo. I have tried mine up to 1.7 bar and it is sweet.

[Edited by john banks - 2/5/2003 5:52:31 PM]

dowser

B*stard

Richard

StephenDone

I've made several updates to the software, which is now up on the web site.

# I've moved things around a little to make the user interface a little more intuitive.
# The gear range graphing has been merged with the power graphing, so that you can compare gear ranges of multiple cars, as you can with the power tests etc.
# Better desciptions of gearboxes, revs limits and weights etc. have been added.
# the performance report now gives speed per 1000 rpm as well as text versions of the maximum speed achievable in each gear.

To answer a few of the recent posts:

>I'm suprised about the difference in 3rd/4th gear runs, though.
>Using a different package (DataLogLab instead of the Tek one) I
>(repeatably) got numbers within 1bhp of each other in 3rd & 4th;
>
Turbo charged cars will never give the same wheel or flywheel power in each gear, due to the effect of the turbo spool up and the transmission losses. You always see higher boost in higher gears, since the turbo gets more time to accelerate. If you have adjusted the per gear losses in a program to give the same flywheel figure in each gear, whilst it may look nice, you are just fixing the figures. The flywheel figures per gear will not be the same.

>seeming that the Tek calculations are based on the info from
>DataLogLab, I'd have expected the values to have the same, tiny
>varience?
>
The DeltaDash calcs are in no way based on DataLogLab.
Who's been saying that then ?
Probably explains why the results differ. Always good to have a second opinion.

>Interesting to compare an optimally setup TD04 hybrid
>(Stephen Done) with a TD05 front entry (mine) from 2000-3300
>RPM (30-50 in 3rd).
>
John - that's very impressive. Do you mind sending me the DDF file to put on the web site with the other two sample files. Have BDH asked why you keep ordering all that laughing gas ? Can't all be for the patients

Regardng comments on wheel spin, an intesting things happens when you measure power from within the car. If you get wheel spin on a conventional rolling road, the graph shows figures that are too low, since the rollers are turning slower than the wheels, but the rollers are doing the measurement. When testing using DeltaDash (or any other RPM based road dyno), wheel spin will increase figures, since it is the speed of the wheels (flywheel really) from which the measurement is taken. Clutch slip will also cause high readings.

btw, if anyone has the specs of the 99/00 STI and RA gearboxes, then I'll add those to the list of gearbox choices. Plus any other tweaks such as other tyres sizes if you need them.

Cheers

Steve

john banks

I'll collect you some more tonight Steve with more octane, tighter actuator and a better exhaust see if we can get them higher. Laffing gas, not there's a thought

Pete Croney

Steve

5/6 Type R/RA

1st 3.085
2nd 2.062
3rd 1.545
4th 1.151
5th 0.825

FD 4.444:1

weight 1240kg

Razor2001

Hi Stephen,

I noticed when you put select from the drop down MY2001 and greater STI it gives you 1600 kgs weight ? I have heard that the JDM STi-7 is 1,430 kg and the UK Sti-7 is 1,480 kg.

Take the JDM Sti-7 add 40 kg full tank of fuel and 80kg for avg person and you get 1,550 kg. I guess this is what you used for the Uk spec and hence 1600 kg. Just a thought that you may want to have a selection for the JDM vs UK STi-7 for the weight as well as gearing.

Oh, excellent product by the way

Cheers,
Ray

StephenDone

Thanks Pete,

That's the same as the 22B then.
Just to confirm: STI 5 has same as STI 5 R/RA or different ?
I thought the Std 5 had longer gearing than the RA - I think I may be missing one gearbox spec (std STI 5/6).

Hi Ray,

I'll need to weigh a few cars at some point, to give some definitive weight figures. I'll update the software then to reflect what I find. I should have thought about it earlier - PE have a RR day on Saturday, which would have been the perfect opportunity.

Cheers

Steve

nom

Steve - not convinced about the boost thing making a difference for the power! On the logs I have made (& trying to keep track of the boost gauge - at least it's digital so I can see 'held'!), I get 225kPa (absolute) dead-on in 3rd & 4th, no overshoot nor nuffink; tails off a bit over 6k5 like it's meant to, though. 3rd & 4th identical (3rd happens a few hundred rpm higher, but by 4k all's the same). Which, to me, means they should show the same power... I can see this quite possibly not being the same for many cars, so I suppose I'm making a bit of a stupid point here

I'll shut up now

T-uk

I was mapping with John B tonight, he got 314 BHP at the wheels with heavy smoothing in 3rd gear, 309 BHP at the wheels with heavy smoothing in 4th.

333 BHP at the wheels with light smoothing LOL, but that is less believable. He only came down to the farm to try my Blitz backbox LOL.

Wonder how long his engine will last LOL, but he is only running 1.5 bar despite me telling him to run more

babber

Reading this thread is great!! I can't wait to load the upgrade and go for a spin!!! You guys are what scoobynet is all about, fair play to you

Lol, what about a weight correction factor for a boot full of tools, a couple of laptops, a stealth box, two v12 amps, a couple of QAM test meters, a bit of shopping and a few bottles of team thorns two coats and a hi vis jacket.....Oh and a flashing red beacon. And a buffalo chick in the passenger seat

Keep up the dialogue not that I understand half of it!!

Cheers Phill