Scooby Vs MR2 Turbo
15 January 2003, 02:04 AM
#121
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Hi Cosworth
"the 145 MPH MR-2 Turbo is no where near the top 30 let alone the top 20"
This was your quote from previous pages.
So you set the scene for the 145 figure in the first place.
If this top speed figure for the '91 REV 1 Turbo is correct (and I'm not disputing that) then we are talking about a car that had a limiter added because of Japanese law at the Toyota factory during production. So technically this car would never be able to go above 112mph. However, you have said it can do 145mph so you have accepted that this is without the limiter in place.
YOU then state that the 94+ REV 3 Turbo MR2's have a more powerful turbo unit enabling 241bhp, but the factory again limits it but this time to 125mph, right.
So if we apply your logic for the REV 1 and ignore its limiter enabling 145mph, then surely you should be talking about the REV 3 with its higher bhp being de-limited, thus allowing speeds of over 155mph, as quoted.
You can't talk about the old model being de-restricted and then say about the new one but say 'oh thats limited'
So in this light, the more powerful REV 3 de-restricted is going to be faster than the REV 1.
Most owners loose the limiters when they are imported to comply with the sva regs.
and I don't blame them - airfield and strip days are popular.
If you are going to be rude and imply that I don't know anything (admittedly I don't have things like drag co-efficients in my memory, but I'm sure I'll live with it) your arguments need to be spot on. Comparing 2 cars, one with and one without a limiter isn't exactly a great way of trying to prove a point.
Regards - Rob
[Edited by MR2 Rob - 1/15/2003 2:14:22 AM]
"the 145 MPH MR-2 Turbo is no where near the top 30 let alone the top 20"
This was your quote from previous pages.
So you set the scene for the 145 figure in the first place.
If this top speed figure for the '91 REV 1 Turbo is correct (and I'm not disputing that) then we are talking about a car that had a limiter added because of Japanese law at the Toyota factory during production. So technically this car would never be able to go above 112mph. However, you have said it can do 145mph so you have accepted that this is without the limiter in place.
YOU then state that the 94+ REV 3 Turbo MR2's have a more powerful turbo unit enabling 241bhp, but the factory again limits it but this time to 125mph, right.
So if we apply your logic for the REV 1 and ignore its limiter enabling 145mph, then surely you should be talking about the REV 3 with its higher bhp being de-limited, thus allowing speeds of over 155mph, as quoted.
You can't talk about the old model being de-restricted and then say about the new one but say 'oh thats limited'
So in this light, the more powerful REV 3 de-restricted is going to be faster than the REV 1.
Most owners loose the limiters when they are imported to comply with the sva regs.
and I don't blame them - airfield and strip days are popular.If you are going to be rude and imply that I don't know anything (admittedly I don't have things like drag co-efficients in my memory, but I'm sure I'll live with it) your arguments need to be spot on. Comparing 2 cars, one with and one without a limiter isn't exactly a great way of trying to prove a point.
Regards - Rob
[Edited by MR2 Rob - 1/15/2003 2:14:22 AM]
15 January 2003, 06:37 AM
#122
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Oh get cossy - he told me to get my head out my **** 2 once because I dare to like Porsches.
Just what do you drive? and lets rip in to you? PLeeeeease don't let it be a Sierra.
Just what do you drive? and lets rip in to you? PLeeeeease don't let it be a Sierra.
15 January 2003, 08:35 AM
#123
Scooby Regular
Sparky: you're quoting MR2 N/A figures. The N/A can't hit anywhere near the limiter in 5th. The turbo does.
Cosworth - you're talking out your **** mate. Did you not notice the post from cletteridge where an MR2 had been caught in Belgium by the POLICE doing 172MPH - next you will tell us that the police speed traps are not calibrated correctly.
Absolute bollox
15 January 2003, 08:37 AM
#124
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Specification for 1994 Model Year
General
Made By Toyota Motor Corporation, 4-8 Itraku, 1-Chome, Bankyo-Ku, Tokyo 12
Description MR2 GT T-Bar Turbo
Model Designation SW20 (MR2 MkII)
Engine Designation 3S-GTE
Price 2,887,000 Yen
Performance
0-60mph 5.6 sec*
Max Speed 112mph (electronically limited)/158mph(de-restricted)
Time to cover 1/4 mile 13.9 sec*
Overall fuel consumption 22mpg
*Official Toyota figures for 1990 (220bhp) model. Figures are not readily available for the revised 1994 model. These are not to be confused with the 200bhp model made specifically for the US market, for which there is considerable data.
General
Made By Toyota Motor Corporation, 4-8 Itraku, 1-Chome, Bankyo-Ku, Tokyo 12
Description MR2 GT T-Bar Turbo
Model Designation SW20 (MR2 MkII)
Engine Designation 3S-GTE
Price 2,887,000 Yen
Performance
0-60mph 5.6 sec*
Max Speed 112mph (electronically limited)/158mph(de-restricted)
Time to cover 1/4 mile 13.9 sec*
Overall fuel consumption 22mpg
*Official Toyota figures for 1990 (220bhp) model. Figures are not readily available for the revised 1994 model. These are not to be confused with the 200bhp model made specifically for the US market, for which there is considerable data.
.
15 January 2003, 09:57 AM
#127
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OK read all the pages 
.... if we are talking UK spec I've had both 1997 UK spec N/A MR2 (in a lovely Azure Blue) and now an MY00 Impreza Turbo wagon.
My MR2 had the standard updated supsension/Yoko tyres etc. In the dry I would say the handling between the Scoob/MR2 is comparable. The MR2 was quite capable of going round large-ish roundabouts at 80 odd bananas quite comfortably without any fear of rear end breakaway
In the wet the MR2 is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be .. I mean you are driving a mid engined 160 odd BHP rear wheel drive don't just mash the accelerator to the carpet half way round a greasy tight bend.
As was said before, get the car set-up and balanced before the corner, feel the available grip, feather the throttle through the bend and apply full throttle when it is safe to do so.
Saying that however the Scoob is much quicker in the wet.
MR2 was quick, loved that 3rd gear pull all the way to 100 bananas
. Major downside in the MR2 .. being in the wrong gear.
It needed revs, uphill slip roads if you were caught below 4K I used to find myself rocking in my seat saying come on, come on. My scoob is MUCH quicker. The Turbo MR2 however would surely address this situation.
If I was not married with a wee one I'd certainly consider changing my MY00 wagon for a Turbo MR2.
Both great cars .. I have very fond memories of that MR2
Doofus.
.... if we are talking UK spec I've had both 1997 UK spec N/A MR2 (in a lovely Azure Blue) and now an MY00 Impreza Turbo wagon.My MR2 had the standard updated supsension/Yoko tyres etc. In the dry I would say the handling between the Scoob/MR2 is comparable. The MR2 was quite capable of going round large-ish roundabouts at 80 odd bananas quite comfortably without any fear of rear end breakaway
In the wet the MR2 is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be .. I mean you are driving a mid engined 160 odd BHP rear wheel drive don't just mash the accelerator to the carpet half way round a greasy tight bend.
As was said before, get the car set-up and balanced before the corner, feel the available grip, feather the throttle through the bend and apply full throttle when it is safe to do so.
Saying that however the Scoob is much quicker in the wet.
MR2 was quick, loved that 3rd gear pull all the way to 100 bananas
. Major downside in the MR2 .. being in the wrong gear. It needed revs, uphill slip roads if you were caught below 4K I used to find myself rocking in my seat saying come on, come on. My scoob is MUCH quicker. The Turbo MR2 however would surely address this situation.
If I was not married with a wee one I'd certainly consider changing my MY00 wagon for a Turbo MR2.
Both great cars .. I have very fond memories of that MR2
Doofus.
15 January 2003, 10:03 AM
#128
Scooby Regular
Spot on Doofus - exactly my experience also. With the gears, you just have to get used to changing down into second at about 60-70mph, when in most cars it would kill the engine.
This takes you to about 4.5k rpm and into the lovely power band.
This takes you to about 4.5k rpm and into the lovely power band.
15 January 2003, 05:02 PM
#130
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Dream Weaver: your N/A shouldn't hit the limiter in 5th unless you've a modded MR2 - N/As just don't produce enough power. My old N/A used to stick at about 6k rpm and an indicated 145mph, and this was the concensus among other N/A owners that I've spoken to in the past.
15 January 2003, 06:42 PM
#133
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When they're tuned they can go quite quickly....
Also, (Yank car)....
http://images.cynikal.net/mr2/litera...es/part15.html
Also, (Yank car)....
http://images.cynikal.net/mr2/litera...es/part15.html
15 January 2003, 07:02 PM
#134
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I cant believe i started this! It seems like bloody ages ago now! To be honest im now struggling to establish which of you own scooby's and who owns MR2's! Some of the people seem to be getting a little agro with their comments and its not just the scooby owners. That comment about prefering a Nova showed a distinct lack of intelligence or humour! Like everyone else here i have seen different figures for both cars but when it comes down to it they a both great cars and both very quick! Strangely enough me and my mate have talked about this recently and when im in his MR2 i think his car is quicker but when he is in my scooby he swears mine is quicker! I know it always seems that way from the passenger seat but it goes to show it must be bloody close!
15 January 2003, 09:09 PM
#138
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READ with CARE.
Dream Weaver
================================================== ================
"Cosworth - you're talking out your **** mate. Did you not notice the post from cletteridge where an MR2 had been caught in Belgium by the POLICE doing 172MPH - next you will tell us that the police speed traps are not calibrated correctly."
================================================== =================
You mean this?
"This is amusing! For what it's worth I remember on one of the MR2 forums some guy with a mildly modified car posted a speeding ticket he got from the Belgian police while on a trip to Europe - 172mph!"
Answer me this, Dream Weaver, do you TRUST facts of physics of cars OR the honestly and integrity of many humans using the internet? How many people "claim" to be children but in fact they are Paedophiles? How many people claim to have done something or are something that they are not?
So what goddamn point are you trying to make by posting what some Belgian with his "modified" MR-2 claims he has done on the road with his car?
WRX_280
================================================== ================
"ok, cut the bull$hit. What magazine or url are you using to get your figures for the MR2 Turbo? Until you do so i will not comment further! I have over 3 different sources on the internet where the indicated top speed claim is over 150MPH+. Just cos a car is limited does it mean it has useless top end?...LOL! If thats the case an MR2 Turbo would lose to the 1st Impreza Turbos"
================================================== =================
I put up the URL of the source for the MR-2 turbo. http://www.mr2-toyota.com. The "faster" Turbo model with 241 HP was limited to 125 MPH according to that source with the revised 241 HP car. This would mean that in STOCK mode, it is NOT in the top 20 fastest production cars in the world @ stock 125 MPH. Which was the point of WHY I posted in this thread in the 1st place. I dont hate the MR-2, I said this before. I even tried getting a N/A MK-1 and a MK-2 last summer to replace my Cavalier SRi.
================================================== ================
"Another thing...i've pulled a stock RB5 from a 100 roll when my car was stock. The RB5 owner toppped out at 145, i was still pulling. I've also pulled a 319BHP STi-Type R from a roll on (when not stock). I have videos from both races. Shame plates are showing! Oh...it also says alot about my almost 9 yeard old car"
================================================== =================
?????
And what does this prove? It proves that what you SEE on the SPEEDO is the actual speed you are going? Speedometers become increasingly inaccurate at high speeds, everyone else involved in this thread acknowledges that, why cant you?
With THAT in mind, and how wrong you were about the MR-2's "worse" gearing and the WRX's HP figure, the more and more you post in here, the more you sound like a 17 year old kid who has been jerking off over Jordon too many times. You wanna resort to insults about "asses" rather than recite tangible facts to give some hope to your argument? I'd throw both of them right back at you, "boy".
Very weak - it is time for you to grow up.
MR-2_rob
================================================== ===============
" So if we apply your logic for the REV 1 and ignore its limiter enabling 145mph, then surely you should be talking about the REV 3 with its higher bhp being de-limited, thus allowing speeds of over 155mph, as quoted."
================================================== =================
So now you claim that it only does 155 MPH instead of 166.7 MPH as with WRX_280 and his childish attempt to prove it with some speed calculator?
Nevertheless, Rob - is 112 - 125 MPH in STOCK UNMODIFIED form qualify the car to be in the top 20 I listed? How many "restricted" 280 + HP cars are in that list I posted that cannot go beyond its own 155 barrier? How many Japanese and German performance models with more than enough power to reach 170+
The bottom line is, Rob and anyone else who actuall pays enough attention. What the MR-2 can do at top speed ONLY interests me IF I wanted to go that fast. I am NOT interested in its alleged 160+ MPH top speed when you people want to claim it is in the top 20, where there are MANY "restricted cars" that are FASTER under restriction.
Dream Weaver
================================================== ================
"Cosworth - you're talking out your **** mate. Did you not notice the post from cletteridge where an MR2 had been caught in Belgium by the POLICE doing 172MPH - next you will tell us that the police speed traps are not calibrated correctly."
================================================== =================
You mean this?
"This is amusing! For what it's worth I remember on one of the MR2 forums some guy with a mildly modified car posted a speeding ticket he got from the Belgian police while on a trip to Europe - 172mph!"
Answer me this, Dream Weaver, do you TRUST facts of physics of cars OR the honestly and integrity of many humans using the internet? How many people "claim" to be children but in fact they are Paedophiles? How many people claim to have done something or are something that they are not?
So what goddamn point are you trying to make by posting what some Belgian with his "modified" MR-2 claims he has done on the road with his car?
WRX_280
================================================== ================
"ok, cut the bull$hit. What magazine or url are you using to get your figures for the MR2 Turbo? Until you do so i will not comment further! I have over 3 different sources on the internet where the indicated top speed claim is over 150MPH+. Just cos a car is limited does it mean it has useless top end?...LOL! If thats the case an MR2 Turbo would lose to the 1st Impreza Turbos"
================================================== =================
I put up the URL of the source for the MR-2 turbo. http://www.mr2-toyota.com. The "faster" Turbo model with 241 HP was limited to 125 MPH according to that source with the revised 241 HP car. This would mean that in STOCK mode, it is NOT in the top 20 fastest production cars in the world @ stock 125 MPH. Which was the point of WHY I posted in this thread in the 1st place. I dont hate the MR-2, I said this before. I even tried getting a N/A MK-1 and a MK-2 last summer to replace my Cavalier SRi.
================================================== ================
"Another thing...i've pulled a stock RB5 from a 100 roll when my car was stock. The RB5 owner toppped out at 145, i was still pulling. I've also pulled a 319BHP STi-Type R from a roll on (when not stock). I have videos from both races. Shame plates are showing! Oh...it also says alot about my almost 9 yeard old car"
================================================== =================
?????
And what does this prove? It proves that what you SEE on the SPEEDO is the actual speed you are going? Speedometers become increasingly inaccurate at high speeds, everyone else involved in this thread acknowledges that, why cant you?
With THAT in mind, and how wrong you were about the MR-2's "worse" gearing and the WRX's HP figure, the more and more you post in here, the more you sound like a 17 year old kid who has been jerking off over Jordon too many times. You wanna resort to insults about "asses" rather than recite tangible facts to give some hope to your argument? I'd throw both of them right back at you, "boy".
Very weak - it is time for you to grow up.
MR-2_rob
================================================== ===============
" So if we apply your logic for the REV 1 and ignore its limiter enabling 145mph, then surely you should be talking about the REV 3 with its higher bhp being de-limited, thus allowing speeds of over 155mph, as quoted."
================================================== =================
So now you claim that it only does 155 MPH instead of 166.7 MPH as with WRX_280 and his childish attempt to prove it with some speed calculator?
Nevertheless, Rob - is 112 - 125 MPH in STOCK UNMODIFIED form qualify the car to be in the top 20 I listed? How many "restricted" 280 + HP cars are in that list I posted that cannot go beyond its own 155 barrier? How many Japanese and German performance models with more than enough power to reach 170+
The bottom line is, Rob and anyone else who actuall pays enough attention. What the MR-2 can do at top speed ONLY interests me IF I wanted to go that fast. I am NOT interested in its alleged 160+ MPH top speed when you people want to claim it is in the top 20, where there are MANY "restricted cars" that are FASTER under restriction.
15 January 2003, 09:16 PM
#142
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fatherpierre
================================================== ================
"The guy that was caught by the Belguim police had a 340bhp MR2. Hardly mildly modded!"
================================================== ================
Thank you very much!
================================================== ================
"The guy that was caught by the Belguim police had a 340bhp MR2. Hardly mildly modded!"
================================================== ================
Thank you very much!
15 January 2003, 09:43 PM
#143
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Do you guys do realize serious speed in the UK = jail sentence. If you dont understand what that it means, just stop think and take a reality check, no job, no house, no car, no family and no nipping down the pub to tell your mates how quick your car is.
Just remember that when you are seeing if your car will redline top gear. lets be sensible out there guys. If you want to top speed runs do it on a trackday/airfield days. It not like its difficult to get on one is it.
Just remember that when you are seeing if your car will redline top gear. lets be sensible out there guys. If you want to top speed runs do it on a trackday/airfield days. It not like its difficult to get on one is it.
15 January 2003, 10:15 PM
#146
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The restrictor is removed because a kph to mph converter is placed between the gearbox and ecu and reduces the speed input to 62.5% to read in mph rather than kph. Adding this means the restriction is still there its just at 180mph rather than 180kph (112mph).
[Edited by chrisp - 1/15/2003 10:18:58 PM]
[Edited by chrisp - 1/15/2003 10:18:58 PM]
15 January 2003, 10:19 PM
#147
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Evening Cosworth
Nearly thought we werent gonna continue our little dispute this evening.
Whatever you say now should be read by all very carefully because, like I said, you yourself told us that the REV 1 could do 145, so I believe it was you who got his conversation twisted up by quoting de restricted car figures.
You seem to be the oracle of car quotation figures and yes you do know more than me, from the sounds of it you have lots of literature available. Is it on the net for us to see?
Even though you know more about a subject, it doesn't mean you can't be wrong about one figure such as the top speed, especially when there are numerous other people supporting the argument.
Im not saying your theories behind stats arent correct either, all im trying to say is that the list that we all saw did exist and that these figures of speed are substantiated by people with experience of the cars, some of whom use Apexi timing equipment and other methods of timing other than the dials.
Actually If you read my post I said 155+ as a speed - as in "capable of beyond" hence the plus sign.
The argument of the list put aside (we might aswell forget it because we have seen it and you dont believe it so nobody is gonna change their opinion), I was simply commenting about your inaccuracy of quoting different conditions for different cars.
Why did you choose to quote the REV 1 Turbo de-restricted and leave the REV 3 out because of restriction? Was it because you knew that the REV 3 was faster but this destroyed your argument that MR2's top out at 145 de-restricted?
Rob
Nearly thought we werent gonna continue our little dispute this evening.
Whatever you say now should be read by all very carefully because, like I said, you yourself told us that the REV 1 could do 145, so I believe it was you who got his conversation twisted up by quoting de restricted car figures.
You seem to be the oracle of car quotation figures and yes you do know more than me, from the sounds of it you have lots of literature available. Is it on the net for us to see?
Even though you know more about a subject, it doesn't mean you can't be wrong about one figure such as the top speed, especially when there are numerous other people supporting the argument.
Im not saying your theories behind stats arent correct either, all im trying to say is that the list that we all saw did exist and that these figures of speed are substantiated by people with experience of the cars, some of whom use Apexi timing equipment and other methods of timing other than the dials.
Actually If you read my post I said 155+ as a speed - as in "capable of beyond" hence the plus sign.
The argument of the list put aside (we might aswell forget it because we have seen it and you dont believe it so nobody is gonna change their opinion), I was simply commenting about your inaccuracy of quoting different conditions for different cars.
Why did you choose to quote the REV 1 Turbo de-restricted and leave the REV 3 out because of restriction? Was it because you knew that the REV 3 was faster but this destroyed your argument that MR2's top out at 145 de-restricted?
Rob
15 January 2003, 10:33 PM
#148
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Chris P
Of course i realise that speed kills. I cannot stand people speeding above a safe limit and hope I would not do this myself, for 2 reasons 1 - the implication of the law and what would happen if you got caught, and 2 - the fact that I couldn't live with myself if I hurt someone else through being thoughtless on a public road.
Well done for pointing it out though - its a worthy comment, however the discussion here is purely about a machines ability and not wether it is adviseable to reach it.
Same goes for drink-driving.
I will also admit freely that being in cars doing excessive speeds honestly does make me slightly nervous and therefore I try and steer clear of it. Some might say that I shouldn't have an MR2 because of that but I'm saving my interest in using a cars full ability until I have a few more years experience under my belt and then I will go on an organised circuit day with an instructor. For now I will enjoy my car for its handling and acceleration, not all out top speed.
Of course i realise that speed kills. I cannot stand people speeding above a safe limit and hope I would not do this myself, for 2 reasons 1 - the implication of the law and what would happen if you got caught, and 2 - the fact that I couldn't live with myself if I hurt someone else through being thoughtless on a public road.
Well done for pointing it out though - its a worthy comment, however the discussion here is purely about a machines ability and not wether it is adviseable to reach it.
Same goes for drink-driving.
I will also admit freely that being in cars doing excessive speeds honestly does make me slightly nervous and therefore I try and steer clear of it. Some might say that I shouldn't have an MR2 because of that but I'm saving my interest in using a cars full ability until I have a few more years experience under my belt and then I will go on an organised circuit day with an instructor. For now I will enjoy my car for its handling and acceleration, not all out top speed.
15 January 2003, 10:41 PM
#149
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MR2 Rob, how does suggesting that there are loads of scooby's on the road detract from their ability as a performance car? I can see both sides of this particular debate which seems to have turned into a 'who quoted what from where debate'! Just as I thought you started to have some sense you take the ****!
15 January 2003, 10:46 PM
#150
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It's run its course now!
My Turbo does the 160+mph - so there
Largely irrelevant, though, as I've only ever ventured into that area of stupid speed twice and didn't particularly enjoy the experience either time.
My Turbo does the 160+mph - so there
Largely irrelevant, though, as I've only ever ventured into that area of stupid speed twice and didn't particularly enjoy the experience either time.