Scooby Vs MR2 Turbo
14 January 2003, 03:11 AM
#91
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Yup... tubby does 165 delimited. You think a 245 bhp car will only go 145?? tish!!!! the tubby also kicks out 31.0 kg of torque!
http://users.breathemail.net/mensah/my95turbo.html
http://users.breathemail.net/mensah/my95turbo.html
14 January 2003, 09:34 AM
#92
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hahahaha
hey, well said image doctor.
I've got a '92 MR2 Turbo, and my mate has a '93 WRX. He's usually quicker off the line, but as soon as we both get rolling my '2 usually edges ahead. It's fairly even tho in all honesty. But I'll agree that I've lost a bit of confidence behind the wheel since my first ****-end-out-at-50 experience in my '2.
hey, well said image doctor.
I've got a '92 MR2 Turbo, and my mate has a '93 WRX. He's usually quicker off the line, but as soon as we both get rolling my '2 usually edges ahead. It's fairly even tho in all honesty. But I'll agree that I've lost a bit of confidence behind the wheel since my first ****-end-out-at-50 experience in my '2.
14 January 2003, 09:34 AM
#93
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hahahaha
hey, well said image doctor.
I've got a '92 MR2 Turbo, and my mate has a '93 WRX. He's usually quicker off the line, but as soon as we both get rolling my '2 usually edges ahead. It's fairly even tho in all honesty. But I'll agree that I've lost a bit of confidence behind the wheel since my first ****-end-out-at-50 experience in my '2.
hey, well said image doctor.
I've got a '92 MR2 Turbo, and my mate has a '93 WRX. He's usually quicker off the line, but as soon as we both get rolling my '2 usually edges ahead. It's fairly even tho in all honesty. But I'll agree that I've lost a bit of confidence behind the wheel since my first ****-end-out-at-50 experience in my '2.
14 January 2003, 11:19 AM
#95
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I've done 150 (indicated) in my NA version, so would think the Turbs could do more.
Dont forget, these things are sleak re aerodynamics. The faster you go, the more stable they become in my experience.
PS 150 was on a private road obviously
Dont forget, these things are sleak re aerodynamics. The faster you go, the more stable they become in my experience.
PS 150 was on a private road obviously
14 January 2003, 05:40 PM
#96
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MR2-Rob --- Perhaps you should read more than one "journalistic" source when you need technical information about a car.
No stock MR2 can reach 165 MPH. Top speeds attained by Japanese specification MR-2 Turbos can reach 141 MPH using official testing equipment and NOT off the clock like how so many of you claim.
Do you (and anyone else here) consider that 95% of analogue speedo's are off by 10-30 MPH the faster you go? So whatever you read from the clock isnt really true.
MR2_tubby --- Do you actually know what you are talking about?
A full Japanese spec dynos at 220 BHP (JIS), or 225 BHP under western standards of power. The US spec registers at 200 BHP.
Nevertheless, you cannot reach 165 MPH with 245 HP, unless you are in at most a 0.28 - 29 drag co-efficient car.
WRX_280 --- Erm, has it ever occured to you that those Supras had been modified from stock? Did they omit to tell you they bipassed whatever fuel cut off system Toyota planted into the Supra to get that speed?
Why not tell that to Toyota if they still sold Supra Twin Turbos, and they'll happyly make your warrantee void because you removed the speed limiters. A 320+ BHP BMW M3, a 400BHP M5 can easily reach 170+ MPH without their own limiters.
Dont ANY of you LEARN anything about the cars you drive (or wished you drove?)???
No stock MR2 can reach 165 MPH. Top speeds attained by Japanese specification MR-2 Turbos can reach 141 MPH using official testing equipment and NOT off the clock like how so many of you claim.
Do you (and anyone else here) consider that 95% of analogue speedo's are off by 10-30 MPH the faster you go? So whatever you read from the clock isnt really true.
MR2_tubby --- Do you actually know what you are talking about?
A full Japanese spec dynos at 220 BHP (JIS), or 225 BHP under western standards of power. The US spec registers at 200 BHP.
Nevertheless, you cannot reach 165 MPH with 245 HP, unless you are in at most a 0.28 - 29 drag co-efficient car.
WRX_280 --- Erm, has it ever occured to you that those Supras had been modified from stock? Did they omit to tell you they bipassed whatever fuel cut off system Toyota planted into the Supra to get that speed?
Why not tell that to Toyota if they still sold Supra Twin Turbos, and they'll happyly make your warrantee void because you removed the speed limiters. A 320+ BHP BMW M3, a 400BHP M5 can easily reach 170+ MPH without their own limiters.
Dont ANY of you LEARN anything about the cars you drive (or wished you drove?)???
14 January 2003, 05:48 PM
#97
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My point exactly! the speed indicated on your speedo isen't at all accurate. If your speedo on your N/A MR2 is reading "150mph" hee hee! then your probably really doing 130mph.
14 January 2003, 05:54 PM
#98
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Cosworth427,
whoops, seems as if i got on your ****!
LOL...160MPH on a stock Supra is ridiculous. Toyota are the same persons that said they dyno at 320BHP, where in-fact they dyno 300HP at the *wheels*. Read wheels! Goto any Supra forum, and ask them what standard Supras dyno at, and they'll tell you exactly the same. Supras have NO speed/fuel cut off points!
Standard Rev 2 onward cars do 160MPH + for a fact. Goto:
http://freespace.virgin.net/turbo.charged/mr2/gtschris_v2.html#
And hit the calc button. What do you get at 7200rpm in 5th (these are with standard tyres)? Thankyou very much!
Before you ask...yes the car can hit the limiter in 5th.
Wheres your source of data anyway? Yup thought you'd figured that up yourself
Regards (not really)
whoops, seems as if i got on your ****
!LOL...160MPH on a stock Supra is ridiculous. Toyota are the same persons that said they dyno at 320BHP, where in-fact they dyno 300HP at the *wheels*. Read wheels! Goto any Supra forum, and ask them what standard Supras dyno at, and they'll tell you exactly the same. Supras have NO speed/fuel cut off points!
Standard Rev 2 onward cars do 160MPH + for a fact. Goto:
http://freespace.virgin.net/turbo.charged/mr2/gtschris_v2.html#
And hit the calc button. What do you get at 7200rpm in 5th (these are with standard tyres)? Thankyou very much!
Before you ask...yes the car can hit the limiter in 5th.
Wheres your source of data anyway? Yup thought you'd figured that up yourself
Regards (not really)
14 January 2003, 06:42 PM
#100
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This is amusing! For what it's worth I remember on one of the MR2 forums some guy with a mildly modified car posted a speeding ticket he got from the Belgian police while on a trip to Europe - 172mph!
As mentioned earlier, aerodynamics have a lot to do with it - the CD of the Mk2 is a very slippery 0.30. Also, park an MR2 next to practically any normal car and look at the height difference - the MR2 has a much smaller frontal area too, so can achieve high speeds with relatively little power. The 158bhp original could crack 137mph - the same power in the Honda Accord coupe (for example) only takes it to 129mph.
As mentioned earlier, aerodynamics have a lot to do with it - the CD of the Mk2 is a very slippery 0.30. Also, park an MR2 next to practically any normal car and look at the height difference - the MR2 has a much smaller frontal area too, so can achieve high speeds with relatively little power. The 158bhp original could crack 137mph - the same power in the Honda Accord coupe (for example) only takes it to 129mph.
14 January 2003, 06:48 PM
#101
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WRX-280 ---- I suggest you delete or edit your previous post as you're completely wrong about the car.
That calculator (written in Java) is no evidence that a 220BHP MR-2 can reach 166 MPH. There is simply NOT enough power to reach that speed with 0.31 drag on the stock car body. Answer me this, did that calculator mention the factor of drag?
A Vauxhall 16V 150 BHP Calibra has a low drag rating of 0.26 cd, and yet its top speed is only 145 MPH. Yet you like to think a 152 BHP N/A MR-2 can go faster with the extra drag it carries.
There is nothing special or mythical about the MR-2 that makes it defy physics, sorry, but when it comes to scientifics, you really do need to look for the facts.
MR-2 Turbo - 220-225 BHP/ MAX SPEED - 141 MPH (230 KPH)
MR-2 N/A 2 litre - 152 BHP/ MAX SPEED - 128 MPH
That calculator (written in Java) is no evidence that a 220BHP MR-2 can reach 166 MPH. There is simply NOT enough power to reach that speed with 0.31 drag on the stock car body. Answer me this, did that calculator mention the factor of drag?
A Vauxhall 16V 150 BHP Calibra has a low drag rating of 0.26 cd, and yet its top speed is only 145 MPH. Yet you like to think a 152 BHP N/A MR-2 can go faster with the extra drag it carries.
There is nothing special or mythical about the MR-2 that makes it defy physics, sorry, but when it comes to scientifics, you really do need to look for the facts.
MR-2 Turbo - 220-225 BHP/ MAX SPEED - 141 MPH (230 KPH)
MR-2 N/A 2 litre - 152 BHP/ MAX SPEED - 128 MPH
14 January 2003, 06:59 PM
#103
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Don't start bigging up the aerodynamics of the MR2 too much, they won't help it do 20mph over what Toyota say it does, which is:-
Max speed:- 137mph
0-60 7.7 secs
for a N/A car which is brand new. put 20,000 miles on this and won't do it in this time anymore.
Supra TT
0-60 4.9
Max speed 155mph
326 bhp @ the flywheel
MR2 is a nice looking car and that is why I used to own one.
But it's only as fast as it is, and you can only change that by modding it up.
Want a car with proper aerodynamics that will make a difference to the top speed, then get hold of a big block Ford V8 and build yourself a GT40.
Max speed:- 137mph
0-60 7.7 secs
for a N/A car which is brand new. put 20,000 miles on this and won't do it in this time anymore.
Supra TT
0-60 4.9
Max speed 155mph
326 bhp @ the flywheel
MR2 is a nice looking car and that is why I used to own one.
But it's only as fast as it is, and you can only change that by modding it up.
Want a car with proper aerodynamics that will make a difference to the top speed, then get hold of a big block Ford V8 and build yourself a GT40.
14 January 2003, 07:04 PM
#104
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"Want a car with proper aerodynamics that will make a difference to the top speed, then get hold of a big block Ford V8 and build yourself a GT40."
Or in the real world, get a Calibra 8v/16v and use that. 0.26 cd, it's in the top 5 low drag cars in the world.
Or in the real world, get a Calibra 8v/16v and use that. 0.26 cd, it's in the top 5 low drag cars in the world.
14 January 2003, 07:23 PM
#105
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Sad gets - all I can piture is a grey suit and the Twix advert with all these figures being lashed about Drag, CD, this and that - who really cares?Cosworth - why you getting so mad about this debate?
Do you (and anyone else here) consider that 95% of analogue speedo's are off by 10-30 MPH the faster you go? So whatever you read from the clock isnt really true.
DW
[Edited by Dream Weaver - 1/14/2003 7:25:58 PM]
14 January 2003, 07:38 PM
#108
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So the new WRX has a rated top speed of 143mph with 218PS (from subaru's homepage). So thats quicker than the Rev3 245PS MR2 Turbo, which does 141mph? Yeah, alright then.
I'm sure it must be the 4WD transmission losses and brick like aerodynamics that make it faster.
I'm sure it must be the 4WD transmission losses and brick like aerodynamics that make it faster.
14 January 2003, 09:01 PM
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Cosworth427,
what HP does a box standard Impreza have? 208BHP is it? Ok lets just say 210BHP for arguments sake (156 WHP...LOL ).
Whats top speed of this car? 144MPH. Lets round it upto 145MPH for you.
Your saying that a 145MPH 4WD car, with a worse CD and gearing then an MR2 has *MORE* top end then a car, which has over more then 50WHP more. Please tell me you are talking *pants*.
And *what* is your source. Either put up this up or shutup
I suggest you delete all your posts , oh and preferably while your at it, do us all a favour and unsubscribe
[Edited by WRX_280 - 1/14/2003 9:05:03 PM]
what HP does a box standard Impreza have? 208BHP is it?
Ok lets just say 210BHP for arguments sake (156 WHP...LOL ).Whats top speed of this car? 144MPH. Lets round it upto 145MPH for you
.Your saying that a 145MPH 4WD car, with a worse CD and gearing then an MR2 has *MORE* top end then a car, which has over more then 50WHP more. Please tell me you are talking *pants*.
And *what* is your source. Either put up this up or shutup
I suggest you delete all your posts
, oh and preferably while your at it, do us all a favour and unsubscribe [Edited by WRX_280 - 1/14/2003 9:05:03 PM]
14 January 2003, 10:34 PM
#110
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Cosworth - you have gone out of your way to prove the sort of point I was trying to make earlier about not believing anyone.
You consistently quote figures for the underpowered american Turbo, and we consistently remind you about the big Japanese brother,
you don't acknowledge many many other peoples views who actually own these cars,
you resort to insults about our knowledge,
I have given you one piece of interesting reading about an American Turbo review - I couldn't be bothered to back myself up 10 times - I have other things to do and because you would rubbish the claims anyway).
By the way, what dial system does the Scooby utilise, analogue or digital?
I might be wrong about this so please don't refer to it if I am, but don't the MR2 Turbo late revisions use a digital system of measurement - maybe some of the guys who own Turbo 2's could help on this?
Don't mean to be ars*y, hope this is still in good spirits.
Rob
You consistently quote figures for the underpowered american Turbo, and we consistently remind you about the big Japanese brother,
you don't acknowledge many many other peoples views who actually own these cars,
you resort to insults about our knowledge,
I have given you one piece of interesting reading about an American Turbo review - I couldn't be bothered to back myself up 10 times - I have other things to do and because you would rubbish the claims anyway).
By the way, what dial system does the Scooby utilise, analogue or digital?
I might be wrong about this so please don't refer to it if I am, but don't the MR2 Turbo late revisions use a digital system of measurement - maybe some of the guys who own Turbo 2's could help on this?
Don't mean to be ars*y, hope this is still in good spirits.
Rob
14 January 2003, 11:15 PM
#114
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From the sounds of this the Scooby owners are getting a bit touchy
Is it true that the Scooby got its name because its just a big clumsy lump of a dog that always screws up? Maybe we should call the '2 the Scrappy cus it seems to be annoying the f**k out of the Scoobys
If you want to put it to the test organise a track day and have a race between a standard Scooby and a standard MR2 Turbo and see who comes out on top.
Is it true that the Scooby got its name because its just a big clumsy lump of a dog that always screws up? Maybe we should call the '2 the Scrappy cus it seems to be annoying the f**k out of the Scoobys
If you want to put it to the test organise a track day and have a race between a standard Scooby and a standard MR2 Turbo and see who comes out on top.
14 January 2003, 11:25 PM
#115
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WRX-280
================================================== ===============
Your saying that a 145MPH 4WD car, with a worse CD and gearing then an MR2 has *MORE* top end then a car, which has over more then 50WHP more. Please tell me you are talking *pants*.
================================================== ================
Do you even realise the implications of what you are saying?
143- 144 MPH is attainable with 215 HP AND it is documented as FACT in VARIOUS publications. No the 2002 WRX isnt 208, it registers as 215 BHP (DIN not JIS)(according to EVO magazine). What you just did was you are illustrating that a high drag car CAN be fast.
Worse gearing? I dont think so. Overal ratio of the Impreza WRX is 2.81:1 while the MR-2 Turbo is 3.01:1. If anything was "worse" geared for top speed, it would be the MR-2, due to it having SHORTER ratios than the Impreza WRX.
The 166.x MPH which YOU and MR2-rob CLAIM is the top speed of a 225 BHP MR-2. The existence of a Impreza and the software used doesnt prove that by any means. Period.
Once you get your head out of your *** - you realise where you went wrong, because you have no argument left to save you.
MR-2_rob
================================================== ================
"You consistently quote figures for the underpowered american Turbo, and we consistently remind you about the big Japanese brother"
================================================== ================
No, I quoted BOTH Japanese market restricted versions AND US export versions. The Japanese car is rated at 220BHP (JIS) and 200 BHP in the US specification car. I get these figures from a few books I have laying around. I dont make this stuff up to annoy you.
220+ HP is the maximum output of a 1991 MR-2 Turbo - period.
94 Models and onwards received twin-entry turbo chargers, power is increased to 241 BHP. The car tops at 125 MPH because of a limiter. http://www.mr2-toyota.com
Even with 241 BHP in mind, I said this before, there is nothing special or mythical about an MR-2 that allows it to defy the physics of power and aerodynamics. All cars from all manufacturers are affected, and an MR-2 is no exception to this rule.
================================================== ===============
"you don't acknowledge many many other peoples views who actually own these cars,
you resort to insults about our knowledge"
================================================== ================
This is the problem, you and WRX-280 dont HAVE any knowledge of to speak. Why should I respect the opinion of someone who refuses to learn and decides to base their opinions on misconceptions and rumours instead of fact?
WRX_280 assumed that an MR-2 Turbo can acheive near 170 MPH top speeds because he seen it from some Java software. Why the hell should I respect his opinion when he has no idea about cars and would rather much spout even more B.S just to hide the fact that he is WRONG?
================================================== ================
"By the way, what dial system does the Scooby utilise, analogue or digital?
I might be wrong about this so please don't refer to it if I am, but don't the MR2 Turbo late revisions use a digital system of measurement - maybe some of the guys who own Turbo 2's could help on this?"
================================================== ================
Most modern cars use more sophisticated speedos to give more accurate figures of speed - no disagreement there, but it still doesnt eliminate the inaccuracies of the speed completly.
Real equipment (speed traps, calibration of speedo, or optical wheel) is used by official testers to monitor speed on NEW cars, let alone 10 year old cars.
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/14/2003 11:28:06 PM]
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/14/2003 11:34:28 PM]
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/15/2003 12:02:40 AM]
================================================== ===============
Your saying that a 145MPH 4WD car, with a worse CD and gearing then an MR2 has *MORE* top end then a car, which has over more then 50WHP more. Please tell me you are talking *pants*.
================================================== ================
Do you even realise the implications of what you are saying?
143- 144 MPH is attainable with 215 HP AND it is documented as FACT in VARIOUS publications. No the 2002 WRX isnt 208, it registers as 215 BHP (DIN not JIS)(according to EVO magazine). What you just did was you are illustrating that a high drag car CAN be fast.
Worse gearing? I dont think so. Overal ratio of the Impreza WRX is 2.81:1 while the MR-2 Turbo is 3.01:1. If anything was "worse" geared for top speed, it would be the MR-2, due to it having SHORTER ratios than the Impreza WRX.
The 166.x MPH which YOU and MR2-rob CLAIM is the top speed of a 225 BHP MR-2. The existence of a Impreza and the software used doesnt prove that by any means. Period.
Once you get your head out of your *** - you realise where you went wrong, because you have no argument left to save you.
MR-2_rob
================================================== ================
"You consistently quote figures for the underpowered american Turbo, and we consistently remind you about the big Japanese brother"
================================================== ================
No, I quoted BOTH Japanese market restricted versions AND US export versions. The Japanese car is rated at 220BHP (JIS) and 200 BHP in the US specification car. I get these figures from a few books I have laying around. I dont make this stuff up to annoy you.
220+ HP is the maximum output of a 1991 MR-2 Turbo - period.
94 Models and onwards received twin-entry turbo chargers, power is increased to 241 BHP. The car tops at 125 MPH because of a limiter. http://www.mr2-toyota.com
Even with 241 BHP in mind, I said this before, there is nothing special or mythical about an MR-2 that allows it to defy the physics of power and aerodynamics. All cars from all manufacturers are affected, and an MR-2 is no exception to this rule.
================================================== ===============
"you don't acknowledge many many other peoples views who actually own these cars,
you resort to insults about our knowledge"
================================================== ================
This is the problem, you and WRX-280 dont HAVE any knowledge of to speak. Why should I respect the opinion of someone who refuses to learn and decides to base their opinions on misconceptions and rumours instead of fact?
WRX_280 assumed that an MR-2 Turbo can acheive near 170 MPH top speeds because he seen it from some Java software. Why the hell should I respect his opinion when he has no idea about cars and would rather much spout even more B.S just to hide the fact that he is WRONG?
================================================== ================
"By the way, what dial system does the Scooby utilise, analogue or digital?
I might be wrong about this so please don't refer to it if I am, but don't the MR2 Turbo late revisions use a digital system of measurement - maybe some of the guys who own Turbo 2's could help on this?"
================================================== ================
Most modern cars use more sophisticated speedos to give more accurate figures of speed - no disagreement there, but it still doesnt eliminate the inaccuracies of the speed completly.
Real equipment (speed traps, calibration of speedo, or optical wheel) is used by official testers to monitor speed on NEW cars, let alone 10 year old cars.
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/14/2003 11:28:06 PM]
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/14/2003 11:34:28 PM]
[Edited by Cosworth427 - 1/15/2003 12:02:40 AM]
14 January 2003, 11:31 PM
#116
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Late MR2s use digital speedos.
AFAIK the top speed as published by Toyota is 162mph for the Turbo.
I've touched 160mph myself (indicated, of course) with a few revs to spare before the limiter kicked in - my **** fell out though as it felt like it was about to take off.
AFAIK the top speed as published by Toyota is 162mph for the Turbo.
I've touched 160mph myself (indicated, of course) with a few revs to spare before the limiter kicked in - my **** fell out though as it felt like it was about to take off.
15 January 2003, 12:23 AM
#117
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Everything I have read about the tubby states that it would get around 165, with the jap 112 mph limiter off, but I have a n/a currently, so can't say catagorically. and won't get tubby till end of the month. Whether it is 165 minus the error or not, i don't know, but I'm sure someone out there who isn't biased will come up with something. Either way, it will be pretty even with the scooby I would imagine.
Andy
PS... isn't 4wd some sort of driver aid, like traction control?? Ya big girls blouses!
Andy
PS... isn't 4wd some sort of driver aid, like traction control?? Ya big girls blouses!
15 January 2003, 12:29 AM
#118
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Cosworth427,
ok, cut the bull$hit. What magazine or url are you using to get your figures for the MR2 Turbo? Until you do so i will not comment further! I have over 3 different sources on the internet where the indicated top speed claim is over 150MPH+. Just cos a car is limited does it mean it has useless top end?...LOL! If thats the case an MR2 Turbo would lose to the 1st Impreza Turbos
Another thing...i've pulled a stock RB5 from a 100 roll when my car was stock. The RB5 owner toppped out at 145, i was still pulling. I've also pulled a 319BHP STi-Type R from a roll on (when not stock). I have videos from both races. Shame plates are showing! Oh...it also says alot about my almost 9 yeard old car
You need to pull your head out your ***, not figures
Regards
ok, cut the bull$hit. What magazine or url are you using to get your figures for the MR2 Turbo? Until you do so i will not comment further! I have over 3 different sources on the internet where the indicated top speed claim is over 150MPH+. Just cos a car is limited does it mean it has useless top end?...LOL! If thats the case an MR2 Turbo would lose to the 1st Impreza Turbos
Another thing...i've pulled a stock RB5 from a 100 roll when my car was stock. The RB5 owner toppped out at 145, i was still pulling. I've also pulled a 319BHP STi-Type R from a roll on
(when not stock). I have videos from both races. Shame plates are showing! Oh...it also says alot about my almost 9 yeard old car You need to pull your head out your ***, not figures
Regards
15 January 2003, 01:09 AM
#120
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Does anyone have a stash of old "Revs" magazines lying around?
They featured a top speed day a while ago, and I remember the MR2s being surprisingly close to the Supras. Could domeone dig out that old article?
PS remember the Fiat Coupe 20V is rated at about 220bhp and their owners swear it'll crack 155mph.
They featured a top speed day a while ago, and I remember the MR2s being surprisingly close to the Supras. Could domeone dig out that old article?
PS remember the Fiat Coupe 20V is rated at about 220bhp and their owners swear it'll crack 155mph.