superstring

Hi Subarussian

Yes, the Professional kit is stiffer overall than the Performance kit, not just the anti-roll bar.

The Evo issue in quetion is 013/November 1999. There's a side bar on page 061 (evo-speak )titled "Impreza WR Sport".

In case you can't readily get your hands on the mag, here's the relevant paragraph:

"The firmed up suspension (Prodrive Professional) is less successfull but then the RB5 (Stock suspension) is such a hard act to follow. The front is about 15 per cent stiffer, the rear 40 per cent, which has changed the character of the car. It has improved steering weight, feel and precision, especially at high speed, which was one of the few weakness of the RB5. The downside is that the ride is now over-firm on the sort of roads Imprezas normally shine on - those bumpy back-roads that get badly puddled when it rains."

Also, according to the evo article, the stock Impreza Turbo suspension (RB5 or base model) at that time was more or less the equivalent of the Prodrive Performance kit, developed a few years previously (1996/1997). I asked Mike Wood from Prodrive about this when I was in the UK a couple of years back and he said that while the spring rates might be similar, the damping was very different.

Good luck with your decision!

John

[Edited by superstring - 2/16/2003 12:41:44 AM]

Rasher

Can Subaru Dealerships supply both types of kit for your road car????

Damian Harty

Subarussion invited me to contribute on this thread, so I'll say something briefly.

I can't really comment too much here because I don't have detailed knowledge of the other supplier's kits, however I can comment on one specific question about the dampers. We are Bilstein's official low-volume production source and so the "Bilstein" dampers that go to companies like Caterham are in fact Prodrive dampers. What this means is that we build the dampers in the Prodrive Subaru kits to shim packs and piston settings that are specific to our cars and our springs.

Another comment I can make is that as dampers get older they lose subtlety, which you tend only to notice when you go back to new dampers. How much this happens depends on the exact history of the units. While "we would say this because we sell the dampers" it's equally true that another supplier that doesn't sell them will say you don't need them specifically because they don't supply them. All I can say is that you pay your money and take your choice - personally I've never regretted spending money on good tyres rather than cheap ones and never regretted spending money on good suspension either...

Subarussian

Damian, many thanks for visting the thread and posting your thoughts! I agree with you completely - you get what you paid for... In this case I am not trying to save money, but I am trying to make sure that I get the best value for money, i.e. "best" handling car. For example, I don't mind spending £1,400 if my car is going to handle like P1 But I want to make sure that I don't make my car handle worse for everyday driving(e.g. my perception of adjustable coilover kits).

That's why I am concerned by what John posted here about the Prodrive Professional kit. What's your view about it? Is it still suitable for "normal" roads?

For the benefit of other guys here is your response on "your" thread re the Prodrive kits:

"Prodrive Handling Pack for 00 MY: Probably a bit too specific for me to comment on but it's likely that the Pro pack will feel firmer and more neutral and the Performance one will be a bit more rounded for everyday usage. Personally I choose daily comfort over absolute ability - but as I've already mentioned I am an old fart."

So is it just a question of worse "daily comfort" of the Pro kit or ALSO worse daily handling?

By the way, does anyone know what suspension is on the P1?

Cheers,

Andrei

Subarussian

John -- Thanks for the reference and quote. I am concerned and more confused now It's a shame that Subaru don't have demo cars to test drive these upgrades. Oh well...

Rasher -- The answer is 'yes'. Both kits are available for road cars from Subaru dealers. RRP for either kit is £1,100(ish) incl VAT but not fitting.

Subarussian

Claudius, how do you reply with quote? I remember there used to be a special button but I can't find it anymore...

superstring

Andrei

The P1 has Sti Version V Type R struts and custom Prodrive (softer) springs.

Subarussian

Thanks John. Do you know how these compare to the Prodrive kits?

superstring

Andrei

In a word, "no". But, from what I've been able to put together, my feeling is that it's in between the Performance kit and the Professional in terms of stiffness. But I could be wrong .

BTW if Damian isn't able to answer your questions definitively, Mike Wood may be the man to speak to. I believe he's in charge of Prodrive's road car division and I know he frequents the ScoobyNet board on a fairly regular basis.

Good luck.

[Edited by superstring - 2/17/2003 7:11:28 PM]

Rasher

I am about to invest in the Prodrive suspension kit but until this thread I didn't realise that Prodive made two kits!!!!
So I would be very interested to know which you would recommend for everyday driving

Thanks Nige..

Subarussian

Posted by Damian on the other thread:

Daily Handling Q: This is a bit difficult to answer since it depends what your day consists of. However, if you almost never do track days I think the Performance Pack is probably the one for you - it should deliver a noticeably more "sophisticated" ride. It's almost impossible to define what I mean by that but if you get it you will see what I mean; there is less sensation to do with the texture of the road while losing none of the information about the form of the road and the level of grip available, as well as good body control. There should also be useful improvements in your confidence in the car in a variety of circumstances.

Hmm... I really have to find demo cars with these kits to choose for myself, or get a ride in somebody else's car...

Rasher

I have just been informed by a very reputable dealership that there is only one Prodrive suspension kit available for an MY00??

Subarussian

Very confusing indeed. I got this e-mail from my dealer:

"Had to check with Subaru Uk on prices & information, apparently the suspension kits have been combined, you can now only get 1 kit. This is classed as a performance kit with mounting bushes, but does not include a new rear antiroll bar. There is no longer a professional kit available. The professional kit has been replaced with the part number sacc2139kit, this price is the same money £975 + vat."

I guess Damian is not very close to the "consumer division" of Prodrive if he didn't tell us about this change...

So it sounds like there is only a "softer" more "sophisticated" option available now. What about those "bushes" - what do they do?

Subarussian

OK, just as if it wasn't confusing enough I got an e-mail from Mike Wood from Prodrive this afternoon telling me that yes, there is onle ONE kit available now... wait for it... the Professional one, with the rear anti-roll bar and bushes!!! Going to ring my dealer tomorrow to confirm the price, etc.

SCOSaltire

lol!

keep up the good investigation...

looking forward to seeing how you get on

superstring

Unbelievable........

Subarussian

Right, there is 'light' at the end of the tunnel. Got this e-mail from Mike Wood yesterday. I hope this is the final clarification

From: Mike Wood
Sent: 20 February 2003 22:01
To:
Subject: RE: Prodrive suspension - conflicting info


Andrei

The 'professional' suspension was developed from my desire to produce the ultimate road kit for the Impreza but still retain reasonable ride comfort so that the car was useable every day. What we achieved was a kit that gave better high speed contol and handling than a P1 but with a similar ride. (we weren't in a position to change damper spec on the P1 other than to something that existed already in the Subaru parts
bin) When used with 17" wheels and tyres I can't see how you are going to get anything better for road use unless you use a hideously expensive damper like an Ohlins.

The kit comprises springs, dampers and a rear antiroll bar. As the arb is a different diameter to std we also include bushes for the body mounts in the right diameter.

I hope this helps!

Regards

Mike
=============

Many thanks, Mike! Sounds great to me! Going to ring around for the best price, and book the car in...

Cheerio

Andy Hamilton

Hooray

Looks like you've finally decided

I thought it was going to be about 2006 by the time you made your mind up

Look forward to seeing/riding in it when it's done!

Andy

Subarussian

Yes but... what about Leda B? May be I should consider it too?

Hoping to get quotes on Monday.

Rasher, I sent you an e-mail. Did you get it? Want to cross-check quotes with you...

SCOSaltire

Subarussian

i am still stuck with the same decision..

Leda or Prodrive

Want the best for A and B roads
hmmmmm

Rasher

YES GOT IT MATE YHM

Subarussian

Best quote £1,308.63 all in and fitted.

Subarussian

Well, well, well... The kit is on! And what a fantastic result! Unbelievable!!! Here is a quick review for those who are interested:

- no understeer at low or high speeds
- the car feels much more composed
- somehow it feels quicker in a straight line
- and definitely faster (not just feels faster) through the corners! I estimate that I can take corners 10-15% faster now
- the steering is much more direct and responsive; it requires less lock than before to turn
- I can get back on the throttle almost immediately after the turn-in; don't need to wait for the apex
- the ride is noticably harder and can be quite bumpy, especially at low speeds; however it is reasonable over speed bumps
- the most peculiar change is that after the turn-in when the nose changes direction there is a slight nudge at the back as if the back wheels 'tuck in'...

Nige, what about you, mate?

Rasher

love it, agree with everything you said, just made me realise how much the OE rolled through corners, frightening in comparison!!! That coupled with the quickshift and £200 for my OE kit. Total cost minus the £200 was just over £1300 not bad eh???
I'm off up to my parents in North Wales at the weekend, their are some fantasic roads up there, can't wait

superstring

Andrei

Glad to hear you're happy with your new suspension, but have you tried driving "the sort of roads Imprezas normally shine on - those bumpy back-roads that get badly puddled when it rains." ??

Cheers, John

darkblueturbo

whatever you have done always makes your car feel faster, it's pschological. Mine felt faster the first drive after a rolling road!

Seriously, it's probably due to the stiffer damper/spring settings that mean less body roll, they'll also mean less pitch under heavy accelration and braking, so although only a slight difference, the car can get the power through the wheels easier.
Get an Anti-Lift kit fitted and notice it even more, especially powering out of corners...

What kit did you have fitted in the end? the prodrive performance one?

Whatever it is, glad you enjoy it -that's all that matters at the end of the day!

Ragos Elias

Well,

I have tried a lot of suspension kits.Starting from standard then to Coni again to standard, changed to Prodrive WR SPORT KIT, lEDA KIT and finally bought the Profrive Prof.kit from Jim as he said on top. Prof.kit is excellent and the best of all I have fitted until now.
Go for it and will not be dissapointed.

Elias

Subarussian

Superstring - not yet, you cheeky bugger

There is only one kit available for the Classic shape -- the Professional one, and that's the one I got.

I wonder if a strut brace will make a noticable difference?

JIM THEO

You forgot to mention Elias that it spoils ride quality remarkably (it's a professional kit if that means something!), but agree about your first comment, BEST kit overall!
JIM

T2000PPP

Subarurusian-- are you sure it was the last one?? Ive just booked a prodrive handling pack to be fitted to my classic this week.
The dealer has phoned to say its arrived and has posetion of it.