RC Developments
19 December 2002, 11:39 PM
#31
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Wadsy,
used to live in Hampshire til recently - you might have been close enough to sample my car!
Anyway - I have moved.
If you read other posts here it is obvious who I think it good in the serious department.
If you are serious email me...
...rannoch1@hotmail.com.
And by the way - I am not saying RC Developments are bad - I am saying that just cos someone does HKS or JUN does not make them great - you need to talk to them to see if they know what they are doing.
Trout
used to live in Hampshire til recently - you might have been close enough to sample my car!
Anyway - I have moved.
If you read other posts here it is obvious who I think it good in the serious department.
If you are serious email me...
...rannoch1@hotmail.com.
And by the way - I am not saying RC Developments are bad - I am saying that just cos someone does HKS or JUN does not make them great - you need to talk to them to see if they know what they are doing.
Trout
22 December 2002, 04:34 PM
#33
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Hi Chaps,
I took a trip up to RC Developments on Friday to have a chat regarding a full engine rebuild etc etc. Appart from the crazy atmosphere of constantly ringing phones, faxes etc etc I can say that Clive actually does know a lot about scoobs and has done a LOT of research on engine internals, bolt ons, electronics. He too agrees that some parts used on the big boys cars are made by smaller than your average Cosworth, Arrow etc BUT (and i agree with this)how much R&D has actually gone into that product?? I dont think that Mr Joe Bloggs who runs a small co will have as much money to spend as the likes of Cosworth, JUN, Apexi etc. Most garages will use these products because they are tried and tested which gives them their reputation. He too has used parts from small time companies but there are always probs when it comes to warranty claims and things of that order.
Their demo scoob which they have running up there (92 WRX) has had a lot of money spent on it (approx £70K) but the actual tuning price was a lot less and if you have a look at it you will know why. Just the bodykit, spary job, the leather interior and ice alone cost him near the £40k mark. The engine has ONLY BEEN OPENED ONCE and i can say the car actually looks nice. Appart from that RC have built a couple of relly high powered cars way over the 400bhp mark but people have just not publicised about them and i must say the RR grapghs were very impressive.
Personally i would definately trust them with my car from what i have seen and heard from the team up there. If i didnt know any better i would have said that they were more specialised in Scoobs rahter than EVO's as the garage was rammed with scoobs all for BIG power upgrades.
RC gets my vote and my car will be going there soon.
ANT
[Edited by SonicG - 12/22/2002 4:36:35 PM]
I took a trip up to RC Developments on Friday to have a chat regarding a full engine rebuild etc etc. Appart from the crazy atmosphere of constantly ringing phones, faxes etc etc I can say that Clive actually does know a lot about scoobs and has done a LOT of research on engine internals, bolt ons, electronics. He too agrees that some parts used on the big boys cars are made by smaller than your average Cosworth, Arrow etc BUT (and i agree with this)how much R&D has actually gone into that product?? I dont think that Mr Joe Bloggs who runs a small co will have as much money to spend as the likes of Cosworth, JUN, Apexi etc. Most garages will use these products because they are tried and tested which gives them their reputation. He too has used parts from small time companies but there are always probs when it comes to warranty claims and things of that order.
Their demo scoob which they have running up there (92 WRX) has had a lot of money spent on it (approx £70K) but the actual tuning price was a lot less and if you have a look at it you will know why. Just the bodykit, spary job, the leather interior and ice alone cost him near the £40k mark. The engine has ONLY BEEN OPENED ONCE and i can say the car actually looks nice. Appart from that RC have built a couple of relly high powered cars way over the 400bhp mark but people have just not publicised about them and i must say the RR grapghs were very impressive.
Personally i would definately trust them with my car from what i have seen and heard from the team up there. If i didnt know any better i would have said that they were more specialised in Scoobs rahter than EVO's as the garage was rammed with scoobs all for BIG power upgrades.
RC gets my vote and my car will be going there soon.
ANT
[Edited by SonicG - 12/22/2002 4:36:35 PM]
24 December 2002, 11:07 AM
#34
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Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
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ant...
Mail me before you commit to anything... this is something I am doing with my engine...
David
Mail me before you commit to anything... this is something I am doing with my engine...
David
24 December 2002, 05:43 PM
#35
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You'll find that the vast majority of the UK Subaru tuners/engine builders will recommend Cossie pistons/Arrow rods, because they'er pretty much the only "off the shelf" option, meaning they don't have to stock.
To suggest that the smaller, specialist companies don't spend much time on R&D, or their integrity is any less than that of larger companies, is not only insulting, but just plain misleading.
There's a very good reason that the most "big boys" dont run Arrow rods, and that's because they won't run an "H" section rod, in an engine running serious power.
If you look at Crower's web site, for example, they don't even offer an "H" section rod for a high power 4 cylinder car, only "I" section !!!
It's a shame that some companies/people choose to discount a product, without even knowing anything about it, and that's pretty much why you'll only ever get offered "Cossie pistons/Arrow rods".
You'll also find that a lot of companies will only offer stock Subaru big end bearings, for the same reason.
I suspect that that's why the UK are so far behind Aus' in tuning these cars.
Mark.
[Edited by R19KET - 12/25/2002 2:41:26 AM]
To suggest that the smaller, specialist companies don't spend much time on R&D, or their integrity is any less than that of larger companies, is not only insulting, but just plain misleading.
There's a very good reason that the most "big boys" dont run Arrow rods, and that's because they won't run an "H" section rod, in an engine running serious power.
If you look at Crower's web site, for example, they don't even offer an "H" section rod for a high power 4 cylinder car, only "I" section !!!
It's a shame that some companies/people choose to discount a product, without even knowing anything about it, and that's pretty much why you'll only ever get offered "Cossie pistons/Arrow rods".
You'll also find that a lot of companies will only offer stock Subaru big end bearings, for the same reason.
I suspect that that's why the UK are so far behind Aus' in tuning these cars.
Mark.
[Edited by R19KET - 12/25/2002 2:41:26 AM]
25 December 2002, 08:15 AM
#36
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Alanjack,
at this point in time I am having an engine put together - there are things being done to the block that mass rebuilders can only dream of - or charge you very high prices for...so for rebuild reliability I can only compare the experience to Oz cars because tuners don't do this stuff in the UK.
In terms of of running a tuned car - my approach has enabled me to run 350-360bhp on my car - on road and a couple of thousand track miles - for about 55k miles on my Sti V with the chocolate engine.
With the sort of power that I propose to get on my new engine - it will be significantly higher than the sort of numbers quoted here - and I expect to rebuild it again - even it is only preventative - as it will be so highly tuned. At what point that is will depend on how I use it.
Remember if you are getting into serious tuning and using your car on track then expect to have to do what highly tuned cars do. For example the Caterham R500 needs to be rebuilt every 4,000 track miles.
I am sure RC Developments do a great job at what they do - but it is not the only road to travel.
As Albert Einstein once said, "People would rather live with a problem that they cannot solve, than to accept a solution that they did not understand".
Happy Christmas everybody
Trout
PS And if you are serious can we discuss this further offline rannoch1@hotmail.com
at this point in time I am having an engine put together - there are things being done to the block that mass rebuilders can only dream of - or charge you very high prices for...so for rebuild reliability I can only compare the experience to Oz cars because tuners don't do this stuff in the UK.
In terms of of running a tuned car - my approach has enabled me to run 350-360bhp on my car - on road and a couple of thousand track miles - for about 55k miles on my Sti V with the chocolate engine.
With the sort of power that I propose to get on my new engine - it will be significantly higher than the sort of numbers quoted here - and I expect to rebuild it again - even it is only preventative - as it will be so highly tuned. At what point that is will depend on how I use it.
Remember if you are getting into serious tuning and using your car on track then expect to have to do what highly tuned cars do. For example the Caterham R500 needs to be rebuilt every 4,000 track miles.
I am sure RC Developments do a great job at what they do - but it is not the only road to travel.
As Albert Einstein once said, "People would rather live with a problem that they cannot solve, than to accept a solution that they did not understand".
Happy Christmas everybody
Trout
PS And if you are serious can we discuss this further offline rannoch1@hotmail.com
25 December 2002, 07:46 PM
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Albert Einstein was not so brilliant! It was because of him i had to sit my **** down and do endless hours of revision when i was at uni and school. He has been nothing but a pain in the neck in using all his theories and formulas.
Merry Xmas!
May i add, Clive of RC is a true engine builder. I know some people think differently but that is the truth. The reason why he uses Cosworth, Arrow etc is only because they have been tried and tested without any major dramas. The demo MY92 wrx which he has created uses cosworth - arrow combo and it has worked for him. Maybe we should stop and look what we really want out of our scoobs. Running a 2litre 400bhp is not so bad in itself and not too expensive to get there. On the other hand who really wants a 500-600bhp monster???? I know some people are power freaks but i have been in a 380bhp scoob which clocked a 0-60time of 3.78secs. Who on this earth wants more??? Remember we live in the uk where speed limits are 70mph :-). Getting to this speed in approx 4 secs is pretty good in my books. Marks car which is pretty mind blowing is just that but thats to his taste and needs. Its not a competition at the end of the day ITS A CAR! Saying that i wouldnt mind a 500bhp monster :-)))))
Gez
Merry Xmas!
May i add, Clive of RC is a true engine builder. I know some people think differently but that is the truth. The reason why he uses Cosworth, Arrow etc is only because they have been tried and tested without any major dramas. The demo MY92 wrx which he has created uses cosworth - arrow combo and it has worked for him. Maybe we should stop and look what we really want out of our scoobs. Running a 2litre 400bhp is not so bad in itself and not too expensive to get there. On the other hand who really wants a 500-600bhp monster???? I know some people are power freaks but i have been in a 380bhp scoob which clocked a 0-60time of 3.78secs. Who on this earth wants more??? Remember we live in the uk where speed limits are 70mph :-). Getting to this speed in approx 4 secs is pretty good in my books. Marks car which is pretty mind blowing is just that but thats to his taste and needs. Its not a competition at the end of the day ITS A CAR! Saying that i wouldnt mind a 500bhp monster :-)))))
Gez
25 December 2002, 11:01 PM
#41
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Just to get things into perspective, my reply related to Ant's "Big boys" comments.
Now given that Ant had made the comments, and had been talking about Big power (500bhp~700bhp) engines, it seemed appropriate say say why the "big boys" use the internals they do.
Comments about 70mph are a little daft. On that basis, not only do we not need to remotly tune our cars, but we don't need cars such as the Subaru in the first place.
Mark.
Now given that Ant had made the comments, and had been talking about Big power (500bhp~700bhp) engines, it seemed appropriate say say why the "big boys" use the internals they do.
Comments about 70mph are a little daft. On that basis, not only do we not need to remotly tune our cars, but we don't need cars such as the Subaru in the first place.
Mark.
26 December 2002, 12:08 AM
#42
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R19KET you know what conversions i will be having to my car! My point is that its a bit unfortunate that we can only do 70mph by law on the motorway. To a non scoobynutter 500-600bhp might be over the top for a uk road, we just cant push that kinda power all the way. Its just one of those things. To some people 300-400bhp is more than enough if not too much for our roads. 500-600bhp is just ott TO SOME, NOT OTHERS (HINT HINT HINT) cough cough me :-) Ant should look at his real needs for the car. DOes he want so much power! Will he be able or want to use it?? IF he does then he is one step closer knowing where he should get his engine tuned.
Gez
Gez
26 December 2002, 12:23 AM
#43
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Gez,
You of all people should know I was pulling your leg
I'm not saying that all owners want 500bhp, or anything like it, and of course people should base their tuning route/parts, on what they want to achieve.
Nore am I suggesting that Arrow rods aren't a good product. They have a great reputation, but you wouldn't generally find them in the "high" power cars. I guess "High power" is also a subjective term............
Mark.
You of all people should know I was pulling your leg
I'm not saying that all owners want 500bhp, or anything like it, and of course people should base their tuning route/parts, on what they want to achieve.
Nore am I suggesting that Arrow rods aren't a good product. They have a great reputation, but you wouldn't generally find them in the "high" power cars. I guess "High power" is also a subjective term............
Mark.
26 December 2002, 01:53 AM
#44
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Location: Leeds - It was 562.4bhp@28psi on Optimax, How much closer to 600 with race fuel and a bigger turbo?
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Either way... no offence mark, and I know you wont take any... but you are a company that supply high performance parts... I asked you to source some bits and you point blank refused as you had no experience of them, but you had tried others which you were happy with... I now use these and I am happy.. Tried and tested..
Ive spoken to mark many times and most limitations are he doesnt want to get his hands dirty or can make more money holding a phone
I am having my new engine built by one of marks suppliers / partners / contacts... what ever they are called...
eitherway it will be well known and it wont be shy of running boost or making power..
I WONT discuss my new engine on here until it is run in, in the car... anybody that wishes to discuss it can mail me..
(just incase I run out of money)
David
Ive spoken to mark many times and most limitations are he doesnt want to get his hands dirty or can make more money holding a phone
I am having my new engine built by one of marks suppliers / partners / contacts... what ever they are called...
eitherway it will be well known and it wont be shy of running boost or making power..
I WONT discuss my new engine on here until it is run in, in the car... anybody that wishes to discuss it can mail me..
(just incase I run out of money
)David
26 December 2002, 10:25 AM
#45
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Alanjack,
for some reason you keep asking me how many people want to have 'specialist' engines - well I know of dozens of cars that have had rebuilds - and some paid through the nose because they went to one supplier and didn't shop around - and some didn't cos they did some research and talked to a number of people and got a good deal.
Now RC may be the chaps to offer that best deal - I don't know - but I ain't seen any evidence here either!
....anyway - back to where I started....
....I have not used RC Developments (the subject of this thread) but....
....I get concerned when posts go up saying that xxx supplier must be brilliant because they know how to bolt on parts from major Japanese tuning houses....
....and I said this because I have seen bills of this approach and believe that better value can be found elsewhere (and some of those bills have been mine!!!) from my own painful experience....
....and specifically for regarding RC - although this is regarding EVOs - I was at a track day where there were five cars VIs and VIIs all claiming around 430bhp - three from a small independent EVO specialist and two from RC - as I said before, the drivers capability might have been very different - but the Specialists cars were very quick - whereas the RC cars were around the same pace as my modest 330bhp-ish Scoob....
....mind you - they probably turned to boost down with the EBC to save the engine as it was a hot day.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 12/28/2002 8:48:30 AM]
for some reason you keep asking me how many people want to have 'specialist' engines - well I know of dozens of cars that have had rebuilds - and some paid through the nose because they went to one supplier and didn't shop around - and some didn't cos they did some research and talked to a number of people and got a good deal.
Now RC may be the chaps to offer that best deal - I don't know - but I ain't seen any evidence here either!
....anyway - back to where I started....
....I have not used RC Developments (the subject of this thread) but....
....I get concerned when posts go up saying that xxx supplier must be brilliant because they know how to bolt on parts from major Japanese tuning houses....
....and I said this because I have seen bills of this approach and believe that better value can be found elsewhere (and some of those bills have been mine!!!) from my own painful experience....
....and specifically for regarding RC - although this is regarding EVOs - I was at a track day where there were five cars VIs and VIIs all claiming around 430bhp - three from a small independent EVO specialist and two from RC - as I said before, the drivers capability might have been very different - but the Specialists cars were very quick - whereas the RC cars were around the same pace as my modest 330bhp-ish Scoob....
....mind you - they probably turned to boost down with the EBC to save the engine as it was a hot day.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 12/28/2002 8:48:30 AM]
26 December 2002, 12:33 PM
#46
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David,
No offence taken. If the worst someone can say about me is that I won't recommend products I don't know, and I'm not keen on getting my hands dirty (not for you, anyway ) I'm happy.
Arrow rods are fine for 99% of people, they're just expensive, but I don't like the design of the Cossie piston. It's good in terms of strength, but the design incorperates a big skirt taper, and this causes them to rattle/slap. Cosworth recommend a 4thou bore clearance, and I know of someone trying 1.5~1.75thou, they still rattled, apart from it being very risky running such a small clearance.
If people don't mind their engines sounding like a bag of nails, then Cossie pistons are fine too.
My comments are about the "products", and in no way should be misinterpreted as an opinion about RC. I'm sure whoever use them are very happy with their work.
Mark.
No offence taken. If the worst someone can say about me is that I won't recommend products I don't know, and I'm not keen on getting my hands dirty (not for you, anyway
) I'm happy.Arrow rods are fine for 99% of people, they're just expensive, but I don't like the design of the Cossie piston. It's good in terms of strength, but the design incorperates a big skirt taper, and this causes them to rattle/slap. Cosworth recommend a 4thou bore clearance, and I know of someone trying 1.5~1.75thou, they still rattled, apart from it being very risky running such a small clearance.
If people don't mind their engines sounding like a bag of nails, then Cossie pistons are fine too.
My comments are about the "products", and in no way should be misinterpreted as an opinion about RC. I'm sure whoever use them are very happy with their work.
Mark.
26 December 2002, 02:43 PM
#47
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Sorry to hijack the thread but can I ask a quickie whilst people who know about rebuilds are on the board.Is there such a thing as an uprated big end bearing.Since these seem to be the culprit in a number of failures I was wondering whether its feasible to uprate these.I'm sure this is probably a stupid question other wise alot of people would do it.By the way I do understand that on big BHP engines everything has to be uprated,but on a moderate one like I'm aiming for(ie circa 330-340 BHP) It might be helpful.
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