Redkop

Does it really matter which is the fastest? Which looks the best? Which has the most bhp? At the end of the day we are all meant to be car enthusiasts and it's each to their own. Would be a boring world if we were all clones and liked the same thing

scoobynutta555

"What Ford has produced is not just the finest handling front drive car of it era, but the finest of all time. "

err thats why it was roundly slated for its "dangerous" handling then on all the car shows i watched. Regarding the focus being the best ever front wheel drive ever build, who cares at the end of the day the best handling cars ar 4 wheel drive or rear wheel drive (not necessarily in that order )

chrisp

I keep asking this question and it usually kills the thread

How many cossie owners have decided to get new a MY02 RS Focus and get rid of their cossie ? The usually answers :

a) The are too expensive for what they are
b) I can get an escort cossie with 400+bhp for that much
c) I am waiting for the Focus cossie
d) ME ME ME ME !

Funny not many answers d) I have heard of, in fact none .

I am glad Ford have joined the game again but lets face it they need to push it a bit further to tempt us out of our cossie and subaru 280+bhp rocketships.

chrisp

Oh and I looking for a badge in my scoob saying my other cars a focus .

Shark

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On page 5 ?

David

3times

Reading this thread makes me realise how clever some people are as they seem to know all about the RS without probably ever had, or ever will, driven one.

I am not taking a side but surely you must wait until there are enough RS's on the road that have loosened up until a comparison is made.

By the way what good is a car that you cannot get a set of golf clubs in the boot of? (Focus)

supraTT

Chrisp - Just one small problem with your comment on the "280BHP rocketships"

Have been to three scoobynet meets at Star Performance now, and regardless of what model / year or mods most of the scoobies have there, i have yet to see one make 280BHP

Usual figure floating about is 240-270 and this includes WRX models. Even a 22B which the guy was a bit *miffed* about

Just cos they are quoted at 280 dont mean they ARE 280.
My mates skyline is quoted at 280 fresh out of Japan, and they make over 300 in most cases ......

Cheers

Sprint Chief

SupraTT, early WRXs are 240bhp-260bhp, depending on model, quoted by Subaru, so if your friends have early cars then it is no surprise that they are seeing this sort of power as standard. It is only the later WRXs that have 280bhp outputs.

If you check the dyno section here, you will see plenty of later Japanese imports comfortably meeting (and sometimes exceeding) their official output, although that is at the PE rolling road (which may be a tad optimistic )

supraTT

That will explain it then, i think most of them are early models....

Out of interest what sort of boost does a standard STi-5 run ?

Ian2wdsaffcos

Shunty, I would expect it just to be running a standard stg 3 then because above that costs a fair wedge if you a person goes to a T4 they generally go the whole hog & goes for either 430 or 500+bhp depending on injectors.

As for the amount of bhp for each 1psi yes I would say you are looking at around that figure if everthing in the motor is tip-top with a T34/35 turbo & they're runnning a good intercooler to go with it.

Cheers,
Ian

jonmorris

Couple of points...


First point;

Top Gear talked nonsense - let's be honest. They were none too nice about the Subaru either. JC is a prat and considering this week he proved he couldn't drive an Elise, what he says doesn't mean much. Look at his "cool or not" section, which proves how out of touch he can be.

Tiff Needell was critical but nowhere near as much. He didn't say it was dangerous or wouldn't get you where you wanted to go - he just said the Civic Type R was the best of both worlds (Leon for smoothness and FRS for outright performance). I think that's a fair point and never expect everyone to choose the same car - how boring would that be?

Driven this weekend actually chose the Focus RS over the WRX and 206 GTi, although it was a close call and the WRX got a lot of praise for being a good all-rounder that the average person could live with. Again, this was a fair view and you can't deny the WRX is probably a better everyday car for all but the hardcore fans (who would presumably have the STi version).

Autocar even slated the TV journos for talking nonsense and suggested that if you can't control the car then you're a crap driver!


Second point;

The Cosworth is dead. Sorry guys but Ford aren't going to shoehorn a 15 year old Cosworth engine into a Focus, Mondeo or Fiesta. People have done it, fair play, but the engine is finished. Cosworth is now nothing more than a badge - a brand.

I sold my Escort in July to someone who buys/sells Escort Cossies for a living. He has one in such good condition, you'd think it was an unsold model Ford discovered at the back of a warehouse a few days ago.

You can see his own opinion of the Focus RS below and see how actually getting the car can change even the most die hard Cossie fans.

http://bbs.rsownersclub.co.uk/showthread.php?s=38fbc24e06d730771478d0aa610d57db& threadid=22496&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

People will eventually come around. Most RSOC members can't afford the Focus RS, I'm sorry to say. Buying a £3-4k Cossie and then spending money on mods is about as far as it goes. Far better to slag off the new car than admit it's something they'll only get to buy in 4-5 years time.

Now it's starting to happen.. All those negative vibes from "loyal" fast Ford owners is gradually changing as people realise that all the positive press must mean the car isn't THAT bad.

It should also be reassuring to know that this is just the first car to feature the RS badge, so things should hopefully get even better.

Jonathan


[Edited by jonmorris - 12/4/2002 2:27:18 AM]

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

http://bbs.rsownersclub.co.uk/showthread.php?s=38fbc24e06d730771478d0aa610d57db& threadid=22496&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

its been most interesting reading all the posts on this thread, I didnt mean to imply in any way that i was slagging/slatting the RS focus as i havent driven one to compare.

I admit i hadnt taken into consideration that they were still running in/loosening up.

I had just seen the window of oppotunity for, maybe the 1st, RS Focus/Impreza straight line blat with not a journalist or JC around

I love the look of the focus from when it was 1st launched and have owned one myself, would also like another one and the RS version does look like a ruff/tuff RS that we've all come to know. (apart from the 'GAY' seats styling!!!! - they should have used seats like the puma racing with the RS embroided in place of the 'ford racing'

It seems i have been mislead by TN and JC, i dont get a chance to read the mags reveiws, on the handling side of things after reading other posts on here. thanks for putting me straight

I would like to take one out just to compare but i doubt i will get the chance.

But as for not being able to hear the GT25 turbo spooling up as i 'cruised' past, i know wot i heard, i was off the power so it wasnt mine

jonmorris

I must say I am surprised you could hear the turbo. We couldn't hear it when we were inside, being thrown around Bentwaters Park for the filming of Driven.

I couldn't hear it when it jetted off with other occupants either, but the engine is rather loud so it's quite possible you need to be a bit closer than we were.

Jonathan

chrisp

I can hear my turbo spool up a lot more with the drivers window open. So I guessing its louder from outside.

scoobynutta555

"JC is a prat and considering this week he proved he couldn't drive an Elise, what he says doesn't mean much"

just because he cant rag a lotus elise around a track as good as a racing driver/testdriver, doesnt make his views any less. JC when he started knew very little about cars, and tried to descride the car in laymans terms to appeal to a wider audience, which IMHO he succeeded in doing. I suspect that his driving skills are more than equal to the majority of drivers on here, and certainly most drivers wouldnt boast they were as good as the lotus tester. As its the general public who are going to drive this car, ill stick to the opinions of jc, knowing that a "real" driver would be able to exploit the car more.

After all the handling aspects on the new car are different to the old elise, which is what jeremy was familiar with, if the Lotus tester didnt show Jeremy up then hes not doing his job properly.

The RS test was an honest test as far s i know, and they all came to the same conclusion, good on track disappointing on the road. They even prefered a bug eye, it must have been bad.

shunty

quote by SB " On that basis I'm not surprised that you beat it.....in fact, I'd be worried that a P1 kept up for those 5 seconds with a stage 3 cossie"

err... I kept up well into xxx figures with one....does that mean that mines faster than a P1 then

shunty

co55ie

scoobynutta What you mean is you personally hope that the RS is not as good as the reports suggest as it may well just knock a few more k of your ever ageing depreciating mass produced Subaru ?
Correct me if I am wrong.
Lol how many times has your engine gone pop. Such a quailty piece of kit that flat four. And aern't scoob's so great in the twisties sorry wrong car I mean't a 2.0 mondeo thats the one.

LG John

maybe shunty....maybe

How do you know it was a stage 3? Did the driver lean out the window and shout it at you whilst thundering along at xxxmph?

scoobynutta555

Dont put words in my mouth sonny, i have owned 3 fast fords including an RS. If you took the time to read what i have to say instead of trying (unsuccessfully) to be smart, youd have also read that I always wanted an escort cosworth, but when i had the means to buy one they were superseeded by the impreza, even a standard uk.

Unless you want to change everything on an Escort, including being stupid enough to chip one, they arent all that special anymore. I know from personal experience that modyfying an RS leads to big bills,even if you go to a specialist, ive been down that road before, in fact my engine went pop as you describe. Ive had imprezas for 4 years now, and apart from a clutch and a gearing syncro in a 9 year old car, havent even had to top the oil up between services, can you boast that? i think not. In the 3 fords ive had there was ALWAYS something that neded replacing or looking into.

Even so,I would quite happily move back to Ford if they have something to offer, they do not, and will not for the forseeable future, whats the LATEST release date for a cosworth focus, if here is one at all? If they brought out a 4 wheel drive cosworth puma, id have got one, they made a prototype but chickened out on the real thing. Seems to me that Ford arent really committed in really fast fords anymore.

Put your money where your mouth is and go an buy a new RS. Think youll find that depreciation wise youll kick yourself. Look at the st range on mondeos, hmmm hold value real well dont they. The p1 depreciation seems to have leveled off, im not bothered about it anyway.

I wont waste my breath on a reasoned and mature reply.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

First off no axe to grind about fords or the focus. Can anbody answer me this.....

Tonight on the way how I over took a car on a little B road. It was safe and I was past in a few seconds. The road was reasonable narrow but there was room to pass safely. As usual at this time of year the road was wet. Hope you've all got the picture now.

the overtaking manouver obviously involved me applying power pulling out to overtake. The scoob was very stable doing this. So much so that it make positioning and controling the car very easy.

In the same situation how would the Focus RS perform. What I'm asking is........with the FWD and the diff it has, would this make this overtaking manouver more challenging? I'm sure it would pull past just as quickly but would it be as stable in the putting down of the power under the overtaking?

Cheers

Guy

supraTT

Scoobynutta - P1 depreciation seems to have levelled off ????

LMAO thats why they started at about £30k, and every time you do a search for one you will find some for £18k or so hmmmmm thats a BIG drop for a newish car.

The Escort Cossie started at over £23k+ TEN YEARS AGO, and are still selling yes SELLING for £18-20k for a mint 97 model. You see they werent mass produced.

Saxoboy - Why were you surprised at the Impreza "staying with me for 5 seconds" ? and "the aerodynamics of a brick" ????

I havent seen many cars, cossie or impreza that have a 0-60 of sub 5 seconds and are like a "brick". But this coming from a SAXO boy LOL. And yes, i previously up until about 6 months ago, drove a 400BHP Twin Turbo J-Spec Supra TT. Just never bothered changing my user name

You know as much as some people get all heated on subjects like this, i actually love the banter, its great when a debate like this goes on on the BB's. Shows both sides of opinion.....love it !

Michael

chrisp

I think your figures are a touch high

from www.parkers.co.uk :

1996 N reg escort cossie lux
list price in 1996 = £27345
mint price now off a dealer 2002 = £13500

1996 N subaru impreza turbo 200 4WD UK
list price in 1996 = £18558
mint price now off a dealer 2002 = £6905

So what can we learn

escort cossie has lost in value = 27345-13500 = £13845
subaru has lost in value = 18558 - 6905 = £11653


So if you had brought the scoob you would have been over 2K better off .

Couldnt get a price for a 1997 escort cossie as 1996 seems the end of production unless it was a late registered one. P1s werent available until MY00.

chrisp

So which current cossies owners are buying one then ?

Please post as I havent heard of one yet

LG John

I haven't changed my user name yet either On the basis of your story my car will live with you 0-100

If you still think aerodynamics has little to do with good motorway grunt then go race a Fiat Coupe Turbo 20V from 90mph onwards

Ian2wdsaffcos

Agree with you Saxo Boy about aerodynamics playing a fairly big roll over 100mph BUT your argument in the case doesn't hold any water as Mike (Supra TT) owns a big wing Escort Cosworth, one of only a handful of cars that actually produces positive downforce as speeds over 80mph....this I suspect is not exactly great for aerodynamics!!!

LG John

100% correct mate When I started on my rant I still though he had the Supra and then got confused and then couldn't be bothered to edit. BUT There is one thing thats good for overcoming the lack of aerodynamics........can you guess?





That's right, big power! Which a stage 3 cossie has and a P1 (assuming standard or near) doesn't!

I win, you loose

co55ie

Pedicted residuals for the RS Focus are circa 12.5 -13k after 3 years with average mileage. A 7k loss is not bad on a 3 year old car.

A one year old P1 can be had for 20k the high engine failiure rate of these cars is not doing them any favours nor is the current downward trend in the brand

Carlos The Jackel

chrisp quoteing parkers is pointless, RS prices are about demand and not what the real value of the car is. I sold a Fiesta RS1800 about 1998 : Parker price guide: £4500, I got £8700 Try looking at Escort Cossie prices in the autotrader website. The cheapest:£8,495 (havent seen one for under 10k in a while)The most expensive:£27,995 both std cars.

scoobynutta555

what predicted residuals? who are you quoting? what 12 month old P1 for 20k?, what downwards trend in the brand? 3 year fully comprehensive warranty takes care of any rare P1 engine faiure, and wheres your order for the new RS????