ZYMOL warning
13 February 2000, 08:37 AM
#32
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I have deliberately allowed some time before posting this - both as an user of Zymol products and someone who has many years of daily experience with representation of non-UK (mainly US) manufacturers of at least equally equisite products, although of a different nature. Here are some thoughts for those who have already decided to panic and (as usually) enjoy anything and everything that gives a slightest hope of possible doubt and speculation:
1) It is always possible that counterfeit products are produced and sold, although I dare say I very much doubt that was the case here, at least not up to x-mas 1999.
2) I checked my own packaging of the Z3 wax and , indeed, spacing between the words is in one location somewhat different to what Zymol USA have shown on their 'warning drawing' and there is no zym-21 or whatever. Let us, however, not forget, that such details can be ammended at any point in time during the manufacturing process of a product and, unless there is a deeper reason (usually nothing to do with the product itself)it is not even bothered with or noticed either by the manufacturer or consumers. Only when certain goals need to be achieved, desperate search for any 'applicable discrepancy' is welcome and quite useful to find and use.
3) All my products were purchased well before Mr. Underwood entered the picture and my Z3 wax was purchased in the US and still does not correspond to markings given by Zymol US. Does this (theoretically) mean that even the US market had to fight 'untrue' products? Unlikely. Perhaps we could find out (off line preferably if someone wants to collect the statistics info)
if and how many waxes are in the 'right' or 'wrong' jars. Something tells me we will all end up having the 'wrong' ones unless goods have been purchased in the US last week or so.
4) Now comes the important and not to be forgotten part. Whenever there is a disagreement or dispute between the manufacturer and a distributor in another conutry, things can go many ways. I am, of course, not in a position to speculate what may or may not have happened between Zymol UK and Zymol USA, but assuming Mr. Underwood indeed confirmed "there was and is a dispute" I expect derogatory comments to take place and, if nothing else works, something like we see with Zymol at the moment. In other words, when manufacturers feel they cannot do what they (often rightly so, I dare say) feel they are entitled to in relation to any aspect of their distributor's behaviour, they decide to choose and apply any method to achieve the result they want. Solicitors are pretty normal to be used, steps to convince the consumers into this, that or the other even more so.Simply put, do whatever you can to prevent the other party from conducting business and, in the meantime, engage legal poeple to do what they feel might be appropriate. The catalogue of means that 'justify goals' is infinite. Again, I am not saying that there may not be something wrong here, but I am pretty much convinced this is more of a legal/office/distributor-manufacturer conflict than the lesser grade quality of the product. How come that conterfeit products suddenly appeared just as and when problems between Zymol US and UK surfaced?
5) Just to reiterate, no one wants to use acknowledged state of the art product of the kind unless it does what it is supposed to and how it is supposed to. I do hope that time will give us more information on this subject and even if Mr. Underwood informs us at some point in time it will simply be another 'side of the story' and it is unlikely we will never know the real truth behind it.
6) Which, by the way, is exactly what interested parties never want us to know. If they did want us to know, they would not create panic, concern and disbelief, but simply solve whatever problems they may be going through.
7) Corresponding with either side, as John Felstead's copies of mail clearly demonstrate, is of no use either. They look exactly as one would expect manufacturer's response to look in the given situation and that is fine. Useful they are not - just increasing the speculation and concern among 'potential victims'. Not to mention 'good will to sell directly from the US' just to give us an opportunity to see how 'the real product looks'.
7) I hereby confirm that I have had not communication whatsoever with either Zymol UK or Zymol USA and have no intention of doing so. Like most other SIDC members, I bought Zymol products in the UK between September and December 1999 apart from the Z3 wax bought in the US in November 1999. The purpose of this post is only to give in insight into typical and regular situations which occur in the manufacturer/distributor relationships from time to time.
Hope it helps shed some more light when main actors decide to play with their cards on the table.
Serious interest rather than excessive concern is what I would recommend at this stage as all this will have an end sooner or later and then we will 'know'.
q.
PS. I am eagerly waiting to see new parties in the UK emerging offering themselves and their services to Zymol USA as their 'new better' distributors for the UK. Not to worry - walking over bodies not even dead yet is something to be expected. Well known practice.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 13-02-2000).]
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 13-02-2000).]
1) It is always possible that counterfeit products are produced and sold, although I dare say I very much doubt that was the case here, at least not up to x-mas 1999.
2) I checked my own packaging of the Z3 wax and , indeed, spacing between the words is in one location somewhat different to what Zymol USA have shown on their 'warning drawing' and there is no zym-21 or whatever. Let us, however, not forget, that such details can be ammended at any point in time during the manufacturing process of a product and, unless there is a deeper reason (usually nothing to do with the product itself)it is not even bothered with or noticed either by the manufacturer or consumers. Only when certain goals need to be achieved, desperate search for any 'applicable discrepancy' is welcome and quite useful to find and use.
3) All my products were purchased well before Mr. Underwood entered the picture and my Z3 wax was purchased in the US and still does not correspond to markings given by Zymol US. Does this (theoretically) mean that even the US market had to fight 'untrue' products? Unlikely. Perhaps we could find out (off line preferably if someone wants to collect the statistics info)
if and how many waxes are in the 'right' or 'wrong' jars. Something tells me we will all end up having the 'wrong' ones unless goods have been purchased in the US last week or so.
4) Now comes the important and not to be forgotten part. Whenever there is a disagreement or dispute between the manufacturer and a distributor in another conutry, things can go many ways. I am, of course, not in a position to speculate what may or may not have happened between Zymol UK and Zymol USA, but assuming Mr. Underwood indeed confirmed "there was and is a dispute" I expect derogatory comments to take place and, if nothing else works, something like we see with Zymol at the moment. In other words, when manufacturers feel they cannot do what they (often rightly so, I dare say) feel they are entitled to in relation to any aspect of their distributor's behaviour, they decide to choose and apply any method to achieve the result they want. Solicitors are pretty normal to be used, steps to convince the consumers into this, that or the other even more so.Simply put, do whatever you can to prevent the other party from conducting business and, in the meantime, engage legal poeple to do what they feel might be appropriate. The catalogue of means that 'justify goals' is infinite. Again, I am not saying that there may not be something wrong here, but I am pretty much convinced this is more of a legal/office/distributor-manufacturer conflict than the lesser grade quality of the product. How come that conterfeit products suddenly appeared just as and when problems between Zymol US and UK surfaced?
5) Just to reiterate, no one wants to use acknowledged state of the art product of the kind unless it does what it is supposed to and how it is supposed to. I do hope that time will give us more information on this subject and even if Mr. Underwood informs us at some point in time it will simply be another 'side of the story' and it is unlikely we will never know the real truth behind it.
6) Which, by the way, is exactly what interested parties never want us to know. If they did want us to know, they would not create panic, concern and disbelief, but simply solve whatever problems they may be going through.
7) Corresponding with either side, as John Felstead's copies of mail clearly demonstrate, is of no use either. They look exactly as one would expect manufacturer's response to look in the given situation and that is fine. Useful they are not - just increasing the speculation and concern among 'potential victims'. Not to mention 'good will to sell directly from the US' just to give us an opportunity to see how 'the real product looks'.
7) I hereby confirm that I have had not communication whatsoever with either Zymol UK or Zymol USA and have no intention of doing so. Like most other SIDC members, I bought Zymol products in the UK between September and December 1999 apart from the Z3 wax bought in the US in November 1999. The purpose of this post is only to give in insight into typical and regular situations which occur in the manufacturer/distributor relationships from time to time.
Hope it helps shed some more light when main actors decide to play with their cards on the table.
Serious interest rather than excessive concern is what I would recommend at this stage as all this will have an end sooner or later and then we will 'know'.
q.
PS. I am eagerly waiting to see new parties in the UK emerging offering themselves and their services to Zymol USA as their 'new better' distributors for the UK. Not to worry - walking over bodies not even dead yet is something to be expected. Well known practice.
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 13-02-2000).]
[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 13-02-2000).]
13 February 2000, 12:54 PM
#33
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If Mr Underwood had been able to answer
my questionaire via E-mail 5 days ago I am sure that I would not have posted on IWOC!
I would be staggered that Zymol counterfeiting warrants a stand at the Motor Show!
In fact if I was the first to out wax counterfeiters, I am sure that Mr Underwood would be the first to congratulate me!
Editted as now cooled down a bit
[This message has been edited by Anders (edited 14-02-2000).]
my questionaire via E-mail 5 days ago I am sure that I would not have posted on IWOC!
I would be staggered that Zymol counterfeiting warrants a stand at the Motor Show!
In fact if I was the first to out wax counterfeiters, I am sure that Mr Underwood would be the first to congratulate me!
Editted as now cooled down a bit
[This message has been edited by Anders (edited 14-02-2000).]
13 February 2000, 07:17 PM
#36
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A different way of looking at the "problem".
Are you happy with your wax/quality of finish ? Convinced its better than anything you've used ? If so then why worry...
Given the response over the months I suspect that everyone is chuffed to bits
Are you happy with your wax/quality of finish ? Convinced its better than anything you've used ? If so then why worry...
Given the response over the months I suspect that everyone is chuffed to bits
13 February 2000, 07:36 PM
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Hi Ian,
I was planning on ordering some more zymol products shortly,do you know if it's business as usual because their site seems to be down?
Just for the record i have been using these products for six months and are by far the best i have ever tried ,this won't stop me useing them.
I met mark at the london motorshow he was very helpful and passed on loads of tips. hope this matter gets resolved quickly.
regards
Rob
p.s. nice meeting you down at ss,thanks for the spin
I was planning on ordering some more zymol products shortly,do you know if it's business as usual because their site seems to be down?
Just for the record i have been using these products for six months and are by far the best i have ever tried ,this won't stop me useing them.
I met mark at the london motorshow he was very helpful and passed on loads of tips. hope this matter gets resolved quickly.
regards
Rob
p.s. nice meeting you down at ss,thanks for the spin
13 February 2000, 07:51 PM
#39
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To be honest Rob, I do not know if its business as usual or not, the site is down at the moment. Until the legal side is sorted out i wouldnt like to comment on it either way.
It was good to see a few new faces Saturday
It was good to see a few new faces Saturday
13 February 2000, 08:44 PM
#41
Lets put thinks into perspective here.
I dont know what the current situation is with regards to wether all the products being sold are illegal counterfeit here or the genuine product is being sourced via the grey import route.
I do know that SOME of the products i have recieved have not been manufactured by zymol in the USA, but chuck bennett is addament that ALL the products are fake after speaking to him at some detail.
On the literature in my starter kit it states that Zymol UK Limited is the exclusive importer of zymol products into the UK. Acording to the CEO of zymol this is not true. Someone is not telling the truth here.
I was told that the reason the zymol-uk web site is down is because zymol had contacted the authorities that control ISP's world wide and had this site shut down.
I am still awaiting a reply to my mail to mark underwood i sent this morning.
since contacting the USA i have recieved 8 emails with details of various lawyers etc i could contact to confirm the authenticity of Mr Bennett, Including the law firm representing turtlewax who are the only company that zymol licensess to sell there product.
I am struggleing to keep an open mind on this one.
The issue here is not wether the products mark supplies are good at the job or not.
The issue is that there is a possibility that i have been sold a product on the basis that it is the genuine product from the USA and he is the factory backed importer of that product.
Think about how you would feel if you purchased a car, thinking it was a subaru impreza manufactured in Japan by fuji heavy industries.
You then have a problem with this car after months of enjoying its dynamics only to find it is a copy made in india, has no waranty back up, you have lost your initial investment and have no one to sue for the problems you are now facing.
I for one am stunned by this situation and am still waiting for an explanation from mark as to how this can happen, is it a supplier/agent tiff or a genuine fraud? I dont know yet. I have plenty of info from the USA but nothing from zymol-uk.
I am waiting for mark to supply some answers to this. I will not hessitate to start proceedings with VISANET if answers dont come soon from mark.
I dont know what the current situation is with regards to wether all the products being sold are illegal counterfeit here or the genuine product is being sourced via the grey import route.
I do know that SOME of the products i have recieved have not been manufactured by zymol in the USA, but chuck bennett is addament that ALL the products are fake after speaking to him at some detail.
On the literature in my starter kit it states that Zymol UK Limited is the exclusive importer of zymol products into the UK. Acording to the CEO of zymol this is not true. Someone is not telling the truth here.
I was told that the reason the zymol-uk web site is down is because zymol had contacted the authorities that control ISP's world wide and had this site shut down.
I am still awaiting a reply to my mail to mark underwood i sent this morning.
since contacting the USA i have recieved 8 emails with details of various lawyers etc i could contact to confirm the authenticity of Mr Bennett, Including the law firm representing turtlewax who are the only company that zymol licensess to sell there product.
I am struggleing to keep an open mind on this one.
The issue here is not wether the products mark supplies are good at the job or not.
The issue is that there is a possibility that i have been sold a product on the basis that it is the genuine product from the USA and he is the factory backed importer of that product.
Think about how you would feel if you purchased a car, thinking it was a subaru impreza manufactured in Japan by fuji heavy industries.
You then have a problem with this car after months of enjoying its dynamics only to find it is a copy made in india, has no waranty back up, you have lost your initial investment and have no one to sue for the problems you are now facing.
I for one am stunned by this situation and am still waiting for an explanation from mark as to how this can happen, is it a supplier/agent tiff or a genuine fraud? I dont know yet. I have plenty of info from the USA but nothing from zymol-uk.
I am waiting for mark to supply some answers to this. I will not hessitate to start proceedings with VISANET if answers dont come soon from mark.
13 February 2000, 09:16 PM
#43
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Anyone living in the plymouth area?
If so why not pop round to see if zymol is still trading or are their offices now deserted.
Maybe ask a few Questions as to whats happening.
Chip.
If so why not pop round to see if zymol is still trading or are their offices now deserted.
Maybe ask a few Questions as to whats happening.
Chip.
13 February 2000, 09:28 PM
#46
nick has spoken to mark and asked him to post something here.
I would have thought that mark would have done this as a matter of urgency considering the issues.
i have emailed mark direct and have recieved no answers yet.
I want all my correspondence in writing and have received 8 mails from the USA to date but non from mark.
what do i mean by contacting VISANET?
Quite simple, i will start procedings to refund my money i paid mark for this product if i dont see anything in the next 2 days.
I hope this is not a fraud we are dealing with here as i too found mark very helpfull, but at the moment i have my doubts.
I would have thought that mark would have done this as a matter of urgency considering the issues.
i have emailed mark direct and have recieved no answers yet.
I want all my correspondence in writing and have received 8 mails from the USA to date but non from mark.
what do i mean by contacting VISANET?
Quite simple, i will start procedings to refund my money i paid mark for this product if i dont see anything in the next 2 days.
I hope this is not a fraud we are dealing with here as i too found mark very helpfull, but at the moment i have my doubts.
13 February 2000, 09:32 PM
#47
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Just read this entire thread with interest.
Anders, why did you use it as an opportunity to drag your saga with Power Engineering into this. Surely you've had your say on this matter in several other threads. (By the way, I do hope your car is back on the road soon).
I_think_you've_gone_a_little_bit_too_far@22B ...
Mike Riley
Anders, why did you use it as an opportunity to drag your saga with Power Engineering into this. Surely you've had your say on this matter in several other threads. (By the way, I do hope your car is back on the road soon).
I_think_you've_gone_a_little_bit_too_far@22B ...
Mike Riley
13 February 2000, 09:34 PM
#48
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Jeez you guys, don't you think the speculation should stop as to the authenticity of Zymol UK/Mark Underwood.
The best thing would be to stop and think that this is a person who has been good to the BBS and its members in the form of Banner ad sponsorship and discounted products along with a mountain of knowledge.
At present nobody seems to have any clear info so before we start besmirching this guys character lets wait for facts and stop creating all this fiction and speculation.
<B>Chapter 1</B>
It wasn't that long ago that Power Engineering were the golden boys of the BBS.....those who would provide the power to tame the elusive MY99 ECU.....then as the result of a highly publicised and continuing "car problem" the BBS members so brutally carved them down......many of whom nodoubt didn't even know Dave Power or had knowledge of the tuning provided....and now we never hear of DP on the BBS anymore...
<B>Chapter 2</B>
And so it were up to a new crusader in the form of Mark Underwood to provide cleaning advice to all and sundry and provide discounted goods and top rate customer service and so the new golden boy was born......then as the result of some highly confusing information and innapropriate emails the BBS massive came out into the night once more and the witch hunt was on again to stike down the golden boy of the moment in such an unsavory fashion.
Someone <B>please</B> close this thread before any more damage occurs to what is a person doing a damn fine job based on past comments of the users of his products.
Innocent till proven guilty and all that........<B>BUT</B> if it turns out that all is not well in Zymol land then its a case of <I>Smythers, release the hounds</I>
but not till everyone shows their cards.
laters
fris
[This message has been edited by frisby (edited 13-02-2000).]
[This message has been edited by frisby (edited 13-02-2000).]
The best thing would be to stop and think that this is a person who has been good to the BBS and its members in the form of Banner ad sponsorship and discounted products along with a mountain of knowledge.
At present nobody seems to have any clear info so before we start besmirching this guys character lets wait for facts and stop creating all this fiction and speculation.
<B>Chapter 1</B>
It wasn't that long ago that Power Engineering were the golden boys of the BBS.....those who would provide the power to tame the elusive MY99 ECU.....then as the result of a highly publicised and continuing "car problem" the BBS members so brutally carved them down......many of whom nodoubt didn't even know Dave Power or had knowledge of the tuning provided....and now we never hear of DP on the BBS anymore...
<B>Chapter 2</B>
And so it were up to a new crusader in the form of Mark Underwood to provide cleaning advice to all and sundry and provide discounted goods and top rate customer service and so the new golden boy was born......then as the result of some highly confusing information and innapropriate emails the BBS massive came out into the night once more and the witch hunt was on again to stike down the golden boy of the moment in such an unsavory fashion.
Someone <B>please</B> close this thread before any more damage occurs to what is a person doing a damn fine job based on past comments of the users of his products.
Innocent till proven guilty and all that........<B>BUT</B> if it turns out that all is not well in Zymol land then its a case of <I>Smythers, release the hounds</I>
but not till everyone shows their cards.
laters
fris
[This message has been edited by frisby (edited 13-02-2000).]
[This message has been edited by frisby (edited 13-02-2000).]
13 February 2000, 10:09 PM
#54
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Well said, frisby! Who's next for the BBS hate bombs? 
Johnfelstead, I understand your concern but I think it's misleading to compare being sold fake car wax (<I>if</I> you were...) costing maybe £100 to being sold a fake car costing £20,000 or more. None of us likes to be sold a dud (<I>if</I> you were...), and I'm sure we're all concerned to know we're not using something that will damage our cars, but let's keep a sense of perspective here.
There is clearly some legal stuff going on, and Mark may well have been advised to say nothing in public until it has been sorted out. So silence from him doesn't imply guilt.
I have to say that the wording of the warnings on the US Zymol site look a bit dodgy themselves. Have the lawyers they claim to have hired looked at the warnings ...
Johnfelstead, I understand your concern but I think it's misleading to compare being sold fake car wax (<I>if</I> you were...) costing maybe £100 to being sold a fake car costing £20,000 or more. None of us likes to be sold a dud (<I>if</I> you were...), and I'm sure we're all concerned to know we're not using something that will damage our cars, but let's keep a sense of perspective here
. There is clearly some legal stuff going on, and Mark may well have been advised to say nothing in public until it has been sorted out. So silence from him doesn't imply guilt.
I have to say that the wording of the warnings on the US Zymol site look a bit dodgy themselves. Have the lawyers they claim to have hired looked at the warnings ...
13 February 2000, 10:13 PM
#55
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Companies selling fake goods do not rent a stand at a major international motorshow, especially with the knowledge that the CEO of the company that owns the rights to the product was at last years show.
p.s. Anders give it a rest, if there is anyone out there who has not heard about your car I've not met them. Power Engineering still do work on my car, just remapped it for a new downpipe, I had a problem with their Phase 1 remap which was swiftly rectified Merv really knows his stuff. In fact (whisper it) He and Dave Power knew something that Pete Croney didn't. No detting, and I don't drive slowly, the red is a target to be reached in every gear.
Paul_enough_about_Power_Engineering_I_am_fed_up_of _hearing_about_it_in_unrelated_threads@22B.com
p.s. Anders give it a rest, if there is anyone out there who has not heard about your car I've not met them. Power Engineering still do work on my car, just remapped it for a new downpipe, I had a problem with their Phase 1 remap which was swiftly rectified Merv really knows his stuff. In fact (whisper it) He and Dave Power knew something that Pete Croney didn't. No detting, and I don't drive slowly, the red is a target to be reached in every gear.
Paul_enough_about_Power_Engineering_I_am_fed_up_of _hearing_about_it_in_unrelated_threads@22B.com
13 February 2000, 11:46 PM
#56
well, just spoke to mark.
to say my head is smoking would be the understatement of the year.
i have emailed mark all my correspondance with zymol usa for his own records.
when i spoke to chuck bennett in the USA he said there was no contract with mark to sell his products, he backed this up with 8 seperate mails.
mark is going to fax me a copy of the contract he has with zymol USA at work in the morning.
i will post on this in the morning. If i do recieve this copy then i will be absolutely disgusted with the way zymol usa has handled this.
i am trying to be completely open with all my corespondance and will not hide anything, even if it makes me look stupid.
i hope mark can send this as i have wanted to believe he was legit, but this has looked more difficult to believe after all the various mails i have been recieving from the USA.
I will post on here first thing in the morning when i have seen the contract.
to say my head is smoking would be the understatement of the year.
i have emailed mark all my correspondance with zymol usa for his own records.
when i spoke to chuck bennett in the USA he said there was no contract with mark to sell his products, he backed this up with 8 seperate mails.
mark is going to fax me a copy of the contract he has with zymol USA at work in the morning.
i will post on this in the morning. If i do recieve this copy then i will be absolutely disgusted with the way zymol usa has handled this.
i am trying to be completely open with all my corespondance and will not hide anything, even if it makes me look stupid.
i hope mark can send this as i have wanted to believe he was legit, but this has looked more difficult to believe after all the various mails i have been recieving from the USA.
I will post on here first thing in the morning when i have seen the contract.
14 February 2000, 08:51 AM
#58
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>Mark
You make a very good point & this is what I thought before I started using Zymol. It is however, an excellent product & is also fun to use too. I used to have to wear plastic gloves when I applied Autoglym as it messed up my hands (some sort of petroleum allergy), Zymol is fine for me.
>Zymol USA v Zymol UK
Someone here is not being entirely truthful. USA says that EVERY product we have been sold is fake. This is a pretty strong statement. If we have been sold legit product then Mark should be able to easily prove it. The question over Subaru wax should also easily be proved.
I expect that Mark will have to make some calls today & it would be reasonable to give him say a week to get his info together. There has obviously been a big bust up between Mark & Zymol USA & by the tone & wording of the US postings, it looks like it has got personal too.
Zymol USA have made their statement & it should be easy for Mark to present his case once he has all the facts together & once he's got legal advice. It is of course possible, that if legal action is to follow, Mark will not be able to make public his evidence until after the case. This could be a big plus point for Zymol USA as they would have achieved the effect of putting Mark out of business.
At the moment, I think that nearly all of us are prepared to give Mark the benefit of the doubt & I think we should give Mark a week to sort out his position. I would respectfully suggest that the people threatening Trading Standards & Credit Card action would not hurt their case by waiting 7 days.
You make a very good point & this is what I thought before I started using Zymol. It is however, an excellent product & is also fun to use too. I used to have to wear plastic gloves when I applied Autoglym as it messed up my hands (some sort of petroleum allergy), Zymol is fine for me.
>Zymol USA v Zymol UK
Someone here is not being entirely truthful. USA says that EVERY product we have been sold is fake. This is a pretty strong statement. If we have been sold legit product then Mark should be able to easily prove it. The question over Subaru wax should also easily be proved.
I expect that Mark will have to make some calls today & it would be reasonable to give him say a week to get his info together. There has obviously been a big bust up between Mark & Zymol USA & by the tone & wording of the US postings, it looks like it has got personal too.
Zymol USA have made their statement & it should be easy for Mark to present his case once he has all the facts together & once he's got legal advice. It is of course possible, that if legal action is to follow, Mark will not be able to make public his evidence until after the case. This could be a big plus point for Zymol USA as they would have achieved the effect of putting Mark out of business.
At the moment, I think that nearly all of us are prepared to give Mark the benefit of the doubt & I think we should give Mark a week to sort out his position. I would respectfully suggest that the people threatening Trading Standards & Credit Card action would not hurt their case by waiting 7 days.
14 February 2000, 09:48 AM
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I still have yet to use the stuff, tbough I bought some in December. My only concern is that the stuff could damage my car, which sounds stupid given the level of enthusiasm for it. The idea of stripping every form of protection off my car (hd cleanse) and me cocking up the re-application of the wax has meant that I've not got around to it yet.
Re: another 7 days not hurting the case. You will need to initiate the chargeback with your credit card issuer within 180 days of the charge being applied.
I would guess that Mark is itching to post, but given the tricky and no doubt litigious and legal nature of this, he's got to tread very carefully.
I've not yet contacted Mark - will do so today, assuming the phone isn't engaged!
Re: another 7 days not hurting the case. You will need to initiate the chargeback with your credit card issuer within 180 days of the charge being applied.
I would guess that Mark is itching to post, but given the tricky and no doubt litigious and legal nature of this, he's got to tread very carefully.
I've not yet contacted Mark - will do so today, assuming the phone isn't engaged!
14 February 2000, 10:28 AM
#60
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It seems likely that there is a mixture of genuine and fake products that have been supplied to people here. My experience is that the packaging for HD-cleanse in particulair is very poor and certainly looks unprofessional. My carbon wax also has the wrong number of spaces on the writing on the bottom of the container although this could be a Zymol USA red hearing. I think that the main problem is the thought that these products may damage your paint work and it is that which prompts people to encourage visits to trading standards etc. After all no one wants to loose the money for the products but damage to paint work would I suppose upset many owners more. The thought of waiting whilst someone may be off with your cash is difficult especially as redress would then prove difficult. If this is a con then time is always of essence and 7 days may be too long.