Evo 8 - WTF?!!!!
22 August 2002, 05:03 PM
#31
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Part of a conversation from another BBS. I wrote this. Im sure some of you will disagree, but then thats the idea of a discussion.
The current WRX has been left way way behind. Everybody else has raised their game, and Subaru have attempted to keep up by turning a "niche" car into something more regular. In doing so, they have probably alienated a large amount of their customers, currrent and prospective.
IMO, my WRX is a below average car, with an above average engine. Oh, and its got four wheel drive, but the "transmission" package leaves a lot to be desired.
The standard WRX should be where the STi is at, and the STi should be shipping with 300bhp as standard. They appear to be missing the point somewhat atm, in that people (again IMO) who bought the older Scooby, were not that interested in "refined" power delivery, they just wanted the turbo to come on song with a bang. Thats the car I thought I was getting, and sadly, I've been very disapointed.
The people appear to be pitching the WRX as a cheaper version of the S3, but its not. It doesn't come close, and looking at the build quality of said car, it never will. If that is not the case, and they are pitching it as a ***** out drivers car, then they are also well short of the mark.
They need to make their mind up. Are they trying to sell a refined, moderatly powered car to compete with the likes of Audi, BMW, VW etc. or is it a ***** out drivers car? Which ever one you choose, its miles behind the competition, and they need to do something rather radical about it, otherwise, its days are numbered.
Again, IMO, they should choose the ***** out drivers car route, because they (Japs) don't have a clue when it comes to putting together a well built refined motor.
IMO, my WRX is a below average car, with an above average engine. Oh, and its got four wheel drive, but the "transmission" package leaves a lot to be desired.
The standard WRX should be where the STi is at, and the STi should be shipping with 300bhp as standard. They appear to be missing the point somewhat atm, in that people (again IMO) who bought the older Scooby, were not that interested in "refined" power delivery, they just wanted the turbo to come on song with a bang. Thats the car I thought I was getting, and sadly, I've been very disapointed.
The people appear to be pitching the WRX as a cheaper version of the S3, but its not. It doesn't come close, and looking at the build quality of said car, it never will. If that is not the case, and they are pitching it as a ***** out drivers car, then they are also well short of the mark.
They need to make their mind up. Are they trying to sell a refined, moderatly powered car to compete with the likes of Audi, BMW, VW etc. or is it a ***** out drivers car? Which ever one you choose, its miles behind the competition, and they need to do something rather radical about it, otherwise, its days are numbered.
Again, IMO, they should choose the ***** out drivers car route, because they (Japs) don't have a clue when it comes to putting together a well built refined motor.
22 August 2002, 05:29 PM
#32
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Qwerty I couldn't agree more. The Subaru and the Evo seem to be having a bit of an identity crisis at the moment and even the mighty Skyline GT-R is being turned into some Audi TT style hairdressers coupe??
I realise the Japanese manufacturers may be trying to compete with their European rivals but like you said, why bother. That's not what they are about and it's not what we the consumer want so they should stop faffing around with all this civilised, watered down crap, leave the repmobiles to people who Excel at making them and give us proper drivers cars again. As I said, if I wanted refinement I wouldn't by a 2 litre turbocharged rally replica.
I realise the Japanese manufacturers may be trying to compete with their European rivals but like you said, why bother. That's not what they are about and it's not what we the consumer want so they should stop faffing around with all this civilised, watered down crap, leave the repmobiles to people who Excel at making them and give us proper drivers cars again. As I said, if I wanted refinement I wouldn't by a 2 litre turbocharged rally replica.
22 August 2002, 07:19 PM
#33
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I think what the Japanese is trying to do is to please many people at the same time, hence the toned down versions for export markets, & the raw versions for home consumption.
I guess if u don't want the softie version, u can always import a raw version by yourself.
My view is reinforced by the following reply from the HK Subaru agent, who has decided to offer the export spec Forester as opposed to the JDM spec car for the 1st time. Remember the export spec Forester turbo has 177ps vs the 220ps tha JDM car has.
"It was under our careful consideration for importing the export version Forester. Over the past few years, the export version Forester was quite successful and acceptable by HK buyers. The selling point for Japanese model is "power", it has a bit different theme from export version. Also, as we already have high performance models on both Legacy & Impreza, therefore we don't need to have Forester under the same theme, this is crossover SUV only."
So there u go, the export versions are always intended for smooth power delivery & a comfortable driving experience, whereas JDM cars are more raw & abrupt.
I guess if u don't want the softie version, u can always import a raw version by yourself.
My view is reinforced by the following reply from the HK Subaru agent, who has decided to offer the export spec Forester as opposed to the JDM spec car for the 1st time. Remember the export spec Forester turbo has 177ps vs the 220ps tha JDM car has.
"It was under our careful consideration for importing the export version Forester. Over the past few years, the export version Forester was quite successful and acceptable by HK buyers. The selling point for Japanese model is "power", it has a bit different theme from export version. Also, as we already have high performance models on both Legacy & Impreza, therefore we don't need to have Forester under the same theme, this is crossover SUV only."
So there u go, the export versions are always intended for smooth power delivery & a comfortable driving experience, whereas JDM cars are more raw & abrupt.
22 August 2002, 09:35 PM
#34
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So there u go, the export versions are always intended for smooth power delivery & a comfortable driving experience, whereas JDM cars are more raw & abrupt.
23 August 2002, 11:29 AM
#35
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QUOTE
"As a final attempt to shift more Evo 7s (I've only seen a couple on the roads, as opposed to quite a few STI UKs), perhaps they should drop it in price for the last production run (a la RX7) to compete directly in line with the new Focus."
All 7's brought to the UK have been sold as has the whole production run worldwide. The reason you don't see so many is because they are rare - that's part of the appeal. I have never seen another 7 on the road, but I see STI's regularly.
[Edited by SimonEvoExtreme - 8/23/2002 11:30:34 AM]
"As a final attempt to shift more Evo 7s (I've only seen a couple on the roads, as opposed to quite a few STI UKs), perhaps they should drop it in price for the last production run (a la RX7) to compete directly in line with the new Focus."
All 7's brought to the UK have been sold as has the whole production run worldwide. The reason you don't see so many is because they are rare - that's part of the appeal. I have never seen another 7 on the road, but I see STI's regularly.
[Edited by SimonEvoExtreme - 8/23/2002 11:30:34 AM]
23 August 2002, 11:58 AM
#36
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The reason why you don't see so many Evo 7's is because they are ugly. I mean the Sti 7 isn't exactly a looker but I can still appreciate it's purposeful presence but the Evo 7.....Eaarghh.
The Evo 6 was better by miles and judging by the pictures I have seen of the Evo 8 that isn't going to fair much better either.
The Evo 6 was better by miles and judging by the pictures I have seen of the Evo 8 that isn't going to fair much better either.
23 August 2002, 12:50 PM
#37
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Shouldnt we be asking, why are Evos so rare if they are so good and better than scoobs, surely a manufacturer sells cars to make a profit, this "lets make a few to keep the prices up" is a joke unless you have a prancing horse on the front or something equally exotic.
Basically we are talking high performance BUT mainstream production cars. If they are stopping production it probably means they cant sell them amd/or not enough demand and/or there is not enough profit in them. Which every way you look at it the fact that rumours say it looks like production may be finishing and by the amount of subarus compared to evos on the road it looks like the lancers have lost the small market share. To me this would be worrying if you buy one as will the specialists and knowledge also dry up with so few cars on the road ??.
Cheers
ChrisP
Basically we are talking high performance BUT mainstream production cars. If they are stopping production it probably means they cant sell them amd/or not enough demand and/or there is not enough profit in them. Which every way you look at it the fact that rumours say it looks like production may be finishing and by the amount of subarus compared to evos on the road it looks like the lancers have lost the small market share. To me this would be worrying if you buy one as will the specialists and knowledge also dry up with so few cars on the road ??.
Cheers
ChrisP
23 August 2002, 01:21 PM
#38
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Don't all Evo's have to go through SVA before entering the UK as they do not have European Type Approval.
Is there still a limit on the number of vehicles of a particular model that can be bought through SVA in a single year?
At the end of the day Subaru and Mitsubishi have to make money out of these cars somehow and if alienating a small group of enthusiasts to achieve this is necessary then it looks like that is what they will do.
By making the cars more comfortable both companies get the chance to sell them in North America which is potentially a large market for any car maker.
Shame!!!
Is there still a limit on the number of vehicles of a particular model that can be bought through SVA in a single year?
At the end of the day Subaru and Mitsubishi have to make money out of these cars somehow and if alienating a small group of enthusiasts to achieve this is necessary then it looks like that is what they will do.
By making the cars more comfortable both companies get the chance to sell them in North America which is potentially a large market for any car maker.
Shame!!!
23 August 2002, 05:41 PM
#39
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Shouldnt we be asking, why are Evos so rare if they are so good and better than scoobs, surely a manufacturer sells cars to make a profit, this "lets make a few to keep the prices up" is a joke unless you have a prancing horse on the front or something equally exotic.
UK spec impreza turbo 215 bhp?
RB5 or various special editions 230bhp??
Sti anything from 240 to 280bhp and now I belive a new one at 330bhp???
Theres the problem for MMC Its full on or nothing, theres no smaller package. If we look at the EVO as the sti people have the choise to go yeah I like the Imprezas but cannot afford a STI I'll get a wrx or a sport etc etc..
See what I'm getting at? Theres the reason EVOS are rare.
[Edited by cryptwalk - 8/23/2002 5:42:48 PM]
23 August 2002, 11:05 PM
#41
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I don't think the current format will end with the Evo 7, not for Japan at least. The full on thing will still be offered in Japan, so its likely that the grey importers will be in vogue again.
I don't think the SVA limits are still there, but anyway, the Evo 7 is also available in LHD form in Germany.
I don't think the SVA limits are still there, but anyway, the Evo 7 is also available in LHD form in Germany.
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