ScoobydoobyDave

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
<B>they were young and foolish, they have been punished the end. Anyway, don't u feel sorry for those two kids now? getting released, and having to watch their back whereever they go, encase some nutcase try's to kill them.[/quote]

Yeah i think everyone has been young and foolish - but my young and foolish period didn't involve violently killing a 2 year old child or any one of any age!!!!!

They deserve everything they are going to get apart from the luxeries they are recieving..

coperal punishment would be to good for these pair... although I can see an apeal of stoning them to death!!!!

Dave.

Dragon

Bring back Capital punishment - the only way justice can be reached - OIMO.

Murray53

You would have hung two ten year olds?

Hollywood

There's no point in arguing about this - there's too high levels of emotion involved. Everyone is sickened by the murder, everyone probably despises the killers, but in our society (at least at the moment) the state doesn't go around killing children, whatever their crime.

In my opinion they should not be released. But they shouldn't be executed either...

Nick

Geezer

Will the people who keep quoting the ages of these two tw@ts please cease. I don't about you, but when I was ten, I knew that you weren't supposed to kill people! It was pre-meditated and evil from the ouset, even if their original intention was not to kill him. What type of person wants to take a toddler and get him lost, injured or killed through accident?

Whether they are a menace to the public now is immaterial. The punishment should fit the crime. I'm sure alot of murderers are not a danger to the public minutes after they have committed it, but they have to be punished.

I don't believe that they shoudl be given new identities or protected by the state. I do not advocate vigliantism (although for these tw I might), but for those of you with tennage daughters, imagine them bringin home their new boyfriend and it was one of those two. You wouldn't have a clue. Many is the time when people have been released because they are supposedly safe and have killed again. There are no guarantees.

Even though I am against capital punishment and vigilantes, I hope that their identities are discovered and that they get their come uppance, such is my disgust and abhorrence at their crime. I am in a way ashamed of these feelings, but there you go. I also suspect that alot of the people who agree that they should be release don't have kids of their own.

kelvin

SupraTT,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by supraTT:
<B>Grow up you absolute imbisile ![/quote]

Ever thought about taking some of your own advice? What I stated was MY OWN OPINION - what right do you have to insult me just because you don't agree with me?

I never expected everyone to have the same opinion as me, and to be honest on a bbs with 6000 odd members I'd be naive to think that this was ever going to be the case. By all means, express your opinion, but do it in a sensible way like other people have done - if not then bu$$er off somewhere else.

Kelvin.

Suresh

Just to add my tuppence worth to a very emotive issue (pouring oil on burning water more like)

I most certainly DO NOT subscribe to the liberal view on this one. Though I did hear a valid opinion from their camp this morning. It's basically that if a parent had tortured and killed their child (which does happen all too often), would they stay in prison for the rest of their lives, or would they be released in 10 years or so? I think the latter would apply, though do not necessarily agree with it.

My question for the liberal do-gooders out there :

Would you really want either of these two released and living in your neigbourhood, near where your kids play, perhaps unattended????? Perhaps they could even babysit for you, when you are out for the evening? Do you really want that?

I don't personally think these two are fit to be released into society. Ever. Doesn't matter how sorry they say they are.

The stimulus for my opinion is based upon accounts I have read of their crime. Made me sick to my stomach (and more than a shade angry).

I am sad that I live in a society where the feelings and rights of the victims (the Bulger family in this case) pay second fiddle to the rights of the criminal.

Suresh

supraTT

Lets just ask something here....how can any of you who agree with the release, sleep at night ???

The sentence should fit the Crime and i for one totally agree with Fastbluescooby and scoobydoobydave, they deserve "proper" punishment. The UK Legal system is a disgrace, people who kill others through drink driving get longer sentences in some cases....look at it that way !

Kelvin.....the only thing i can say to you is nice opinion ! where did you learn right from wrong ?
This isnt about tit-for-tat among us all, but its about agreeing that these little evil *******s deserve PUNISHMENT which is a hell of a lot longer than an 8 year stretch in a Y.O.I.
I would ask you to picture in your minds, as horrible as it is, the scene and motions of these c*nts doing what they did to James Bulger, and then try to look yourself in a mirror and say 8 years is ok, and that they now deserve to be in society again.
The simple fact that Media, Public and General opinion is AGAINST the release and would like to exact physical revenge shows that the decision is wrong.
THEY MURDERED A BABY and lied after they did it as well as tried to cover it up.
I was 10 once, and i would have got absolutely shat on if i even thought about doing this at that age....i knew right from wrong.....so did this two.
This could go on forever on this thread, but i am sure majority on here agree with me that i hope this two are hunted like animals and hurt bad. Certainly this will not make things right, but the legal system has failed to do the right thing, and the crime has not been reflected in the sentence. Thus leading society to exact its own revenge....as they say, whether its right or not....WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

Lets see some proper justice....as one individual close to the family said....SOME PROPER SCOUSE JUSTICE !!!

kelvin

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by supraTT:
<B>Kelvin.....the only thing i can say to you is nice opinion ![/quote]

My opinion is my opinion - if you dont agree with it, fine - I don't remember ever asking you too, but that isn't an excuse for insulting members of the bbs, whoever they may be, is it?

Kelvin.

GranTurismo

Hmmm,

My only real though on this is that there is more than two people in this country who have killed a child. Most of the killers were a lot older than 10 years old and "should" have been more responsible, however they dont attract that much attention, why?.

Prehaps the tabloid press should be foreced to give all profits from reporting this case to the family, and then lets see if they give it as much space!

The human mind is a very fragile thing and can be tipped to do discracefull things. It seems most people want revenge and the issue of "protecting society" is an excuse.

Prehaps they are evil, prehaps they are mad, prehaps they were mad. None of this will bring that child back to life.

Lacey1

SupraTT, I couldnt agree more!

I recently watched a documentry about the case, these two evil b**t**ds had planned the whole thing. They used to torture and kill animals, they regulary played truant from school. Someone on the documentry said they used to stay out late at night, often past 12am and their parents did NOTHING as they were afraid of social services being on their backs. What an upbringing!?!?

It is plainly clear these boys are dangerous. I certainly knew what was right from wrong much before i reached the age of 10. The things they did to James are beyond belief, imagine his terror. I hope they are aware of how much they are hated and hope they have to look over their shoulders for the rest of their numbered days.

Mo

OK my bit.

There knew what they were doing.

They've spent there childhood and teenage years growing up in nick. They are not going to be nice people.

It doesn't matter if their pictures or whereabouts are not published, <B>the people that matter know where they will be......their time will come.</B>

Dave P

A couple of observations....

My 8 and 7 year old daughters caught a glimpse of the paper this Sunday and a discussion ensued on the subject. We explained what these kids had done and their age. I have to say that both my kids were really rather shocked, to the point of silence, before my eldest said, that is really sad.

And I guess it is sad, that in todays society right and wrong steadily merge into one, a time where two 10 year olds find it in themselves to cold bloodedly murder a 2 year old toddler......

But then again, you only have to turn on the news these days to see scenes of 10 year olds in some countries carrying armed riffles, or scenes of children shooting others at school in America.

I don't think it's possible to blame anyone person, not the children, the parents, the media or anyone........ more a collective burden for what is really one very sad planet. After all didn't someone once say something like give me the boy and I will give you the man.

It's interesting that the crimes committed by Venables and Thompson were not all that different to thos committed by Brady and Hindly, but they have / will perish in jail.

Certainly I don't think discussion along the lines of vigilanty action serves any real purpose, other than to make those suggesting it as bad if not worse than those who committed this dreadful crime.

Certainly if it were my child who had been murdered in such a callous way I would want to see justice done. In this case I am not sure that it has been........

Dave

Gary Foster

I can't imagine anything worse than living in a country where 'Justice' is meated out on the basis of a 'Drum trial' conducted by the media and enforced by the public.

The ease with which the media has whipped this into a which hunt is terrifying. We will always have a small number of criminals who act in unspeakable ways, but today we seem to have a large majority of the general population prepared to throw away society for retribution.

Crimes committed by an entire society are IMO infinitely worse than crimes committed by individuals - one indicates sickness in individuals, the other indicates a sickness in a whole society, not somewhere I want to be.

Using Nimby in this way to whip up public emotion was used extensively by the **** Propaganda machine in WW2 ...

Gary
(I do not sympathise or condone what they have done, it is obviously sick and wrong)

Mice_Elf

One thing that I haven't noticed said here is that the UK does not want to release these two. That has been stated umpteen times by various people, including the Home Secretary. <B>However</B>, the ECHR (European Court of Human Rights) has decreed the the UK has "treated them badly" which violates their "human rights" and THAT is why they are being freed. It's the people in Brussels that are trying to run our country that is causing this hassle.

I think that what they did is disgusting, vile and disheartening to think that children that young can even contemplate doing something like that. When I was 10, my biggest concern was if my plasticine would dry out before I managed to squish it through the shapes in the ruler.

As has been stated, the parents have been noticeably quiet but then, what can they say? Apologies to the Bulger family will serve next to no purpose and will fall on deaf public ears and probably shouted down as insincere. They can't possibly <B>understand</B> what made these 2 commit this pre-meditated crime so can't explain it.

Britain is flailing under its curse of the Do-Gooder generation, where it is deemed incorrect (and illegal in some countries, like Germany) to discipline a child by smacking. There is a HUGE difference between a smack on the back of the legs or buttocks on rare occasions and beating 7 months of good for the roses out of your children.

We have taken powers away from teachers to discipline unruly pupils, the police receive little to no respect from most (and note MOST, not ALL) children and the parents expect society to bring their children up correctly.

America is suffering under a wave of children criminals with shootings taking place on a regular occurence. There is an horrifying statistic that in America a child is injured or killed with a handgun every 5 seconds. And Britain will follow, as it does in everything else that America does. The powers that be are so busy trying to help everyone else, that we are ignoring what is going on in Britain's own back yard.

These sorts of crimes will increase, unfortunately, until or unless we can take control of our own legal system and make it harsher and more applicable to what goes on. "Life" in this country is a maximum of 25 years. I don't condone killing someone because they killed someone else. That makes me no better than they. However, in countries where they chop off your left hand if caught stealing once and the right hand if caught stealing again, where an ear is cut off if you are caught eavesdropping on High-Ranking personages, the deterrent is such that crimes are rare.

If these 2 go to adult prison, the chances are that they will not survive very long either. Prisoners take a very dim view of anyone who harms children and women. (I used to work in the police and spent a lot of time down in the cells).

I don't have a cut and dried answer to this, I don't think that anyone does, but this is just my opinion, for what it is worth.

robski

*professionals*, LOL they are probably consultants! (grrrr dont start me on consultants)

We used to send people like this to Australia, maybe we should find somewhere to send em again? Mars sounds like a good idea to me (hope they can hold their breath for a good while )

As a new father I can honestly say if anyone did anything deliberately to my child they would pay. I would make it my lifes work.

I totally support the death penalty, this is a prime example of where it should be used.

Why havent we heard from the parents of the two boys? They are now living in luxury at the taxpayers expense, a lifestyle they would only have dreamed ago 8 years ago.

robski

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Just my tupence but I dont think Venebles and Thompson can be likened to Hindley and Brady, 2 children killing another child compared to 2 adults who were serial child killers....maybe you could compare them to Mary Bell?

DazW

Fast_Blue_Scooby

I don't think the general public need to be whipped up into a 'frenzy' over the case of James Bulger. They are already up in arms over it, you see everyone remembers what happened 8 years ago! I certainly won't forget and even if these lads were released after 16 years instead of 8 years after what they did, I would feel the same.

How would you feel if these lads did something similar once they are released? If they had sick minds at that age, then in my opinion, if they hadn't killed James Bulger then it would have been someone else later. The fact is they were a danger to other children even before that terrible act was committed.

I don't know whether they should have had help before they committed this crime. How would their problem have been identified? Not by their parents, that is for sure, teachers?, social workers?, who knows?
BUT the fact remains is that they took a little boy's life and 8 years locked away and then a return to the outside world does not fit the crime.

I see they are thinking of releasing the killer of that headmaster who was shot a few years ago. Don't forget there have been arrests this morning over the death of 10 year old Damilola Taylor. Once again the people arrested are between 14 and 15.

What can we do about it? Well we can try and find ways of ensuring that this sort of thing does not happen again, but it will happen time after time.

My solution is the death penalty to people who beyond any reasonable doubt took someone else's life. At least we will have that as a deterrent and people who take other people's lives at least know the consequences!

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Fast_Blue,

Surely you’re contradicting yourself when you state 'Well we can try and find ways of ensuring that this sort of thing does not happen again' and yet you advocate the death penalty thus learning nothing about the way a criminal/sick mind works?

DazW

Gary Foster

What of all the other children that have been murdered / raped or abused in that time ?

can you name even one ?

why are you all singling this pair out for extra punishment over and above what our society has already given ?

Why not some other case ? do you even know this is the worst ? how much worse ?

Your telling me it has nothing to do with the media reporting of this case !!

We have a legal system it has to be employed fairly and without prejudice - vigilantism and public 'trials' can have no part of this.

Murray53

I do not think anyone on this board is in any way condoning what these children perpetrated.

However I would have more sympathy for those people who are baying for'justice' if they were complaining about the terrorists (both republican and unionist) who have been given early release from Irish prisons.

These two children killed one other child (absolutely inexcusable) whereas those terrorist scum killed dozens of men women and yes even children.

I am not excusing in any way what these children did, but I feel your anger and disgust would be better aimed at more deserving cases, rather than one which the media has focussed on as an easy target and one which will sell their papers.

MY NOT SO HUMBLE OPINION

Chris L

I've resisted posting to this thread up to now. I have my own opinions, but I'm not going to post those up. What I am struggling with is why this is still in the 'general' section? I also find some of the views posted (particularly by some of the 'newer posters) to be offensive and insulting to many people on this board. Many of you who know me, will know that I don't post like this usually, but I think this thread has served it's purpose. Moderators - don't you think it was time this was moved / and or closed?

Chris
- Please note, this post has nothing to do with the case, it is simply my opinion of the posts themselves.

EvilBevel

&lt;hit my backspace key so many times now I decided to delete it all&gt;

Gary F & Chris L... respect.

Theo [please stop this thread]

Rich_R

Well said Chris!

Rich.

Chris L

Thanks for the support guys. I'm even more confused now. I notice Mark and Kim's 'jokey' threads posted today were transferred to the 'Muppet forum' straight away and yet this still remains.

Simon / moderators care to comment?

Chris

BugEyed

Agreed

Time to close this. We are all human beings (? ), but this is nothing to do with Scoobies. All this thread is doing is encouraging somebody to use this bbs to "out" the killers. Any better way of getting the bbs permently shut down has yet to be invented.

Moderators - kill this thread before it kills us.

Duncan