Coronavirus Pah!
09 April 2020, 01:47 PM
#452
What good does blaming anyone do? Yes it started in China, but who cares where it started, it is here and the only thing we need to worry about is dealing with it and minimising the impact.
Be it Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu or whatever else, epidemics and pandemics can start anywhere. The wet market argument is pretty weak. Sure it may be a risky place for passing diseases to humans, but live animal markets are not exclusive to China. Every zoo or pet-shop around the world also or feeding the ducks at the local park or farmers at a cattle market. Anywhere where man has close contact to animals there is a risk of disease transference. Sure, China could get rid of its wet markets, and I'd be all in favour of that generally, but pandemics will still occur regardless.
China actually reacted very quickly and decisively this time. Far more quickly than it did with the SARS outbreak and China has been praised by the WHO for its openness and response to the outbreak. When you look at the number of cases and death toll in China, then they have certainly been very successful in containing it given their population of over a billion. There are already more deaths in the UK than in China!
This is a highly contagious disease spreading very quickly from person to person before someone is even aware they have it, making it almost impossible to contain. Ebola is not so easily transferred, hence Ebola outbreaks have been relatively easy to contain. The same was true of SARS and Swine Flu. China has done an amazing job of containing COVID-19 and limiting the spread, as has Germany. Iran, then Italy and Spain, followed by UK and USA have done a very poor job of containing it and, as a result, it continues to spread around the world.
If you're looking for blame, then Iran, Italy and Spain should shoulder much of the blame for ignoring the warnings coming from China and continuing life as normal. The UK and USA came later, but their ignorance to the problem and advice coming from others means they also should take some blame. Germany, along with Switzerland, Austria and most Eastern European countries listened to the warnings and acted quickly and decisively to confine the spread and the results are quite clear to see in the number of deaths in those countries.
Its human nature to apportion blame on someone else, but often you are as much to blame as anyone else!
Be it Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu or whatever else, epidemics and pandemics can start anywhere. The wet market argument is pretty weak. Sure it may be a risky place for passing diseases to humans, but live animal markets are not exclusive to China. Every zoo or pet-shop around the world also or feeding the ducks at the local park or farmers at a cattle market. Anywhere where man has close contact to animals there is a risk of disease transference. Sure, China could get rid of its wet markets, and I'd be all in favour of that generally, but pandemics will still occur regardless.
China actually reacted very quickly and decisively this time. Far more quickly than it did with the SARS outbreak and China has been praised by the WHO for its openness and response to the outbreak. When you look at the number of cases and death toll in China, then they have certainly been very successful in containing it given their population of over a billion. There are already more deaths in the UK than in China!
This is a highly contagious disease spreading very quickly from person to person before someone is even aware they have it, making it almost impossible to contain. Ebola is not so easily transferred, hence Ebola outbreaks have been relatively easy to contain. The same was true of SARS and Swine Flu. China has done an amazing job of containing COVID-19 and limiting the spread, as has Germany. Iran, then Italy and Spain, followed by UK and USA have done a very poor job of containing it and, as a result, it continues to spread around the world.
If you're looking for blame, then Iran, Italy and Spain should shoulder much of the blame for ignoring the warnings coming from China and continuing life as normal. The UK and USA came later, but their ignorance to the problem and advice coming from others means they also should take some blame. Germany, along with Switzerland, Austria and most Eastern European countries listened to the warnings and acted quickly and decisively to confine the spread and the results are quite clear to see in the number of deaths in those countries.
Its human nature to apportion blame on someone else, but often you are as much to blame as anyone else!
I do not believe for a second that the death reports in China are accurate. I am sure there are probably 1000% more deaths than that are attributed to COVID-19.
Your points towards Spain and others that ignored the warnings share blame in all this are spot on. This level of negligence could almost be criminal.
Last edited by mrtheedge2u2; 09 April 2020 at 02:29 PM.
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09 April 2020, 05:37 PM
#453
Don't believe the Chinese figures for a minute.
One rally forum I frequent has a member that is a weather tech for world champion Ott Tanak. At the moment he is involved with studying the corona virus quite meticulously. It is suggested that since the start of the epidemic there have been around 45k deaths. Of those going by figures from the past it is estimated that 25k of those deaths are normal figure for the timeframe with no virus, and estimated that 18-19k deaths is nearer that actual figure for covid deaths.
One rally forum I frequent has a member that is a weather tech for world champion Ott Tanak. At the moment he is involved with studying the corona virus quite meticulously. It is suggested that since the start of the epidemic there have been around 45k deaths. Of those going by figures from the past it is estimated that 25k of those deaths are normal figure for the timeframe with no virus, and estimated that 18-19k deaths is nearer that actual figure for covid deaths.
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09 April 2020, 07:10 PM
#455
Scooby Regular
What good does blaming anyone do? Yes it started in China, but who cares where it started, it is here and the only thing we need to worry about is dealing with it and minimising the impact.
Be it Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu or whatever else, epidemics and pandemics can start anywhere. The wet market argument is pretty weak. Sure it may be a risky place for passing diseases to humans, but live animal markets are not exclusive to China. Every zoo or pet-shop around the world also or feeding the ducks at the local park or farmers at a cattle market. Anywhere where man has close contact to animals there is a risk of disease transference. Sure, China could get rid of its wet markets, and I'd be all in favour of that generally, but pandemics will still occur regardless.
China actually reacted very quickly and decisively this time. Far more quickly than it did with the SARS outbreak and China has been praised by the WHO for its openness and response to the outbreak. When you look at the number of cases and death toll in China, then they have certainly been very successful in containing it given their population of over a billion. There are already more deaths in the UK than in China!
This is a highly contagious disease spreading very quickly from person to person before someone is even aware they have it, making it almost impossible to contain. Ebola is not so easily transferred, hence Ebola outbreaks have been relatively easy to contain. The same was true of SARS and Swine Flu. China has done an amazing job of containing COVID-19 and limiting the spread, as has Germany. Iran, then Italy and Spain, followed by UK and USA have done a very poor job of containing it and, as a result, it continues to spread around the world.
If you're looking for blame, then Iran, Italy and Spain should shoulder much of the blame for ignoring the warnings coming from China and continuing life as normal. The UK and USA came later, but their ignorance to the problem and advice coming from others means they also should take some blame. Germany, along with Switzerland, Austria and most Eastern European countries listened to the warnings and acted quickly and decisively to confine the spread and the results are quite clear to see in the number of deaths in those countries.
Its human nature to apportion blame on someone else, but often you are as much to blame as anyone else!
Be it Ebola, SARS, Swine Flu or whatever else, epidemics and pandemics can start anywhere. The wet market argument is pretty weak. Sure it may be a risky place for passing diseases to humans, but live animal markets are not exclusive to China. Every zoo or pet-shop around the world also or feeding the ducks at the local park or farmers at a cattle market. Anywhere where man has close contact to animals there is a risk of disease transference. Sure, China could get rid of its wet markets, and I'd be all in favour of that generally, but pandemics will still occur regardless.
China actually reacted very quickly and decisively this time. Far more quickly than it did with the SARS outbreak and China has been praised by the WHO for its openness and response to the outbreak. When you look at the number of cases and death toll in China, then they have certainly been very successful in containing it given their population of over a billion. There are already more deaths in the UK than in China!
This is a highly contagious disease spreading very quickly from person to person before someone is even aware they have it, making it almost impossible to contain. Ebola is not so easily transferred, hence Ebola outbreaks have been relatively easy to contain. The same was true of SARS and Swine Flu. China has done an amazing job of containing COVID-19 and limiting the spread, as has Germany. Iran, then Italy and Spain, followed by UK and USA have done a very poor job of containing it and, as a result, it continues to spread around the world.
If you're looking for blame, then Iran, Italy and Spain should shoulder much of the blame for ignoring the warnings coming from China and continuing life as normal. The UK and USA came later, but their ignorance to the problem and advice coming from others means they also should take some blame. Germany, along with Switzerland, Austria and most Eastern European countries listened to the warnings and acted quickly and decisively to confine the spread and the results are quite clear to see in the number of deaths in those countries.
Its human nature to apportion blame on someone else, but often you are as much to blame as anyone else!
These "wet" markets, where live a dead meat mingle in close proximity to humans are ridiculous and clearly dangerous
Its 2020 not the 12th Century
09 April 2020, 07:23 PM
#456
Scooby Regular
There seems to be a lot more people out and about under the guise of excercising
if that means more unslighlty lycra it seems small price to pay
more concerned with the quantity jowl faced 30 somthing mums running around in range rovers
what on earth has happend in the last 25 years , it wasnt like this at one time
if that means more unslighlty lycra it seems small price to pay
more concerned with the quantity jowl faced 30 somthing mums running around in range rovers
what on earth has happend in the last 25 years , it wasnt like this at one time
Last edited by IdonthaveaScooby; 09 April 2020 at 07:28 PM.
09 April 2020, 08:24 PM
#457
[QUOTE=IdonthaveaScooby;12077110]
more concerned with the quantity jowl faced 30 somthing mums running around in range rovers
/QUOTE]
That is so blooming spot on and correct
Evoques
more concerned with the quantity jowl faced 30 somthing mums running around in range rovers
/QUOTE]
That is so blooming spot on and correct
Evoques
10 April 2020, 09:47 AM
#458
Scooby Regular
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...break-11971189
Making it legislation is one thing though, enforcing it will be something else. It still hasn't stopped the import and use of illegal animal products for traditional medicine such as rhino horn and tiger ***** and pangolin scales and all the rest...
10 April 2020, 10:14 AM
#459
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-he...-idUKKCN21R1DB
Testing aside; A fairly good sum up of how Germany managed better than us; They had the tenacity to trace patient zero in clusters of infections. Such as that at Webasto. Where we failed early on.
As I said at the start of this saga, we as an island had a strategic advantage and should have locked down our ports of entry to known hotspots far far sooner, or at the very least introduced strict vetting of arrivals to check their condition and intended destination so clusters of outbreaks can be traced to individuals. Our authorities as do port operators (sea, train and air) have alot to answer here in the lack of initial interest, due diligence and legislation in the control of infectious disease. Which is odd as with live animals both in farming and transport we have pretty damn strict rules (mostly privately implemented); Ever try taking a dog into the cabin of a plane? Not possible in the UK, its effectively banned (hold/cargo only and even then it’s still a ball ache ) ... but it’s fine to have certain animals in the cabin on selected flights in the rest of Europe and you can happily swan through the departure lounge with a small dog trotting on a lead by your side (most operators employ a 7ish kg limit).
This is an old study that highlights the issue : https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...27?src=recsys&
Where control falls on local authorities and the private owners of airports and as result has a lacking in overall understanding and a inability of implementing countermeasures, when it should be something that is enacted or mandated by national regulation or body of control. DEFRA for example have quite clear rules and countermeasure laws in place for animal infection control for say, foot and mouth, with legal ramifications for those who flout it. Would it not be prudent to extend DEFRA’s jurisdictions to cover humans travelling?
Testing aside; A fairly good sum up of how Germany managed better than us; They had the tenacity to trace patient zero in clusters of infections. Such as that at Webasto. Where we failed early on.
As I said at the start of this saga, we as an island had a strategic advantage and should have locked down our ports of entry to known hotspots far far sooner, or at the very least introduced strict vetting of arrivals to check their condition and intended destination so clusters of outbreaks can be traced to individuals. Our authorities as do port operators (sea, train and air) have alot to answer here in the lack of initial interest, due diligence and legislation in the control of infectious disease. Which is odd as with live animals both in farming and transport we have pretty damn strict rules (mostly privately implemented); Ever try taking a dog into the cabin of a plane? Not possible in the UK, its effectively banned (hold/cargo only and even then it’s still a ball ache ) ... but it’s fine to have certain animals in the cabin on selected flights in the rest of Europe and you can happily swan through the departure lounge with a small dog trotting on a lead by your side (most operators employ a 7ish kg limit).
This is an old study that highlights the issue : https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...27?src=recsys&
Where control falls on local authorities and the private owners of airports and as result has a lacking in overall understanding and a inability of implementing countermeasures, when it should be something that is enacted or mandated by national regulation or body of control. DEFRA for example have quite clear rules and countermeasure laws in place for animal infection control for say, foot and mouth, with legal ramifications for those who flout it. Would it not be prudent to extend DEFRA’s jurisdictions to cover humans travelling?
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 April 2020 at 10:16 AM.
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10 April 2020, 10:41 AM
#461
If I hear another advert saying:
”exceptional times”
”difficult times”
”perilous times”
“unprecedented times”
etc.
And any other inexplicably annoying buzz phrase or use of meaningless adjectives.
I may just throw the remote at the TV hard enough to break it.
”exceptional times”
”difficult times”
”perilous times”
“unprecedented times”
etc.
And any other inexplicably annoying buzz phrase or use of meaningless adjectives.
I may just throw the remote at the TV hard enough to break it.
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 April 2020 at 10:43 AM.
10 April 2020, 11:05 AM
#462
Scooby Regular
Sadly corrupt african dictators and thier many paid hangers on dont give a toss which chinese take what animals out of africa , if it means theyll get ready cash in exchange , same goes for various minerals
11 April 2020, 12:10 PM
#466
This whole thing is out of hand
1 in 10 Americans unemployed. We will follow suit
1 in 10 Americans unemployed. We will follow suit
11 April 2020, 12:36 PM
#468
Being honest I think our “real world” unemployment ratio wasn’t that far off since the mid-2000s and hasn’t really changed that much, just these days it’s masked as underemployment (short hours on variable/zero hour contracts, or limited hours to maintain benefits). All that will happen is it’ll shift back to unemployment when contracts aren’t renewed.
This virus, is a great excuse to off load surplus employees. Just like immediately after 9-11 when I was unemployed and saw big companies that once had big recruitment drives simply pulled the plug entirely on UK jobs.
This virus, is a great excuse to off load surplus employees. Just like immediately after 9-11 when I was unemployed and saw big companies that once had big recruitment drives simply pulled the plug entirely on UK jobs.
11 April 2020, 02:23 PM
#470
But having said that, a friend of the missus put a post on Facebook yesterday picture of her kids playing on a trampoline. Several hours later a post saying they had spent the afternoon in a & e cos her husband pulled the ligaments in his leg playing on said trampoline.
11 April 2020, 05:22 PM
#472
Scooby Senior
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11 April 2020, 10:17 PM
#477
Scooby Senior
totally stupid, I have several motorbikes in my garage but wouldn't dream of riding them at the moment. Maybe if some of these idiots really can not go without riding for a while, perhaps they could volunteer to become blood delivery riders so they are actually contributing and doing some good rather than needless risk.
But having said that, a friend of the missus put a post on Facebook yesterday picture of her kids playing on a trampoline. Several hours later a post saying they had spent the afternoon in a & e cos her husband pulled the ligaments in his leg playing on said trampoline.
But having said that, a friend of the missus put a post on Facebook yesterday picture of her kids playing on a trampoline. Several hours later a post saying they had spent the afternoon in a & e cos her husband pulled the ligaments in his leg playing on said trampoline.
Sorry Al, normally I agree with most of what you say but Germany currently has 50,000+ more confirmed cases than the UK, admittedly not as many deaths but that can be manipulated with how you report them. so for all Germany's ridiculously expensive health system it is currently in a worse state than the UK.
