Electric cars
06 September 2018, 01:16 PM
#245
Scooby Senior
I'm all for using more renewable energy, but you have to acknowledge that renewable's are incredibly inconsistent. Solar in only useful when the sun shines. Wind doesn't work if there is no wind or, funnily enough, if there is too much wind. Tidal is pretty consistent and predictable, but there are two still periods per day, at least one of which will always fall during peak times. The only renewable we can control is bio/compost which of course still creates CO2 (and worse) emissions. We can of course increase hydro storage to store the inconsistent renewable energy to be released at peak times. I'd definitely be in favour of building a huge dam in the Thames estuary and flooding up to the Thames valley, would also solve a lot more problems than just the energy crisis 
But yes, thumbs up for more renewable's, but also be realistic that non renewable's are equally important to create the required energy stability. At least until we can come up with a consistent renewable solution.
On a side note, its great to see one of SN lead Brexiteers posting an article about how Brexit is threatening the renewable energy growth in the UK
When did you become a liberal and start reading the Guardian 
But yes, thumbs up for more renewable's, but also be realistic that non renewable's are equally important to create the required energy stability. At least until we can come up with a consistent renewable solution.
On a side note, its great to see one of SN lead Brexiteers posting an article about how Brexit is threatening the renewable energy growth in the UK
When did you become a liberal and start reading the Guardian
06 September 2018, 01:28 PM
#246
Scooby Regular
I'm all for using more renewable energy, but you have to acknowledge that renewable's are incredibly inconsistent. Solar in only useful when the sun shines. Wind doesn't work if there is no wind or, funnily enough, if there is too much wind. Tidal is pretty consistent and predictable, but there are two still periods per day, at least one of which will always fall during peak times. The only renewable we can control is bio/compost which of course still creates CO2 (and worse) emissions. We can of course increase hydro storage to store the inconsistent renewable energy to be released at peak times. I'd definitely be in favour of building a huge dam in the Thames estuary and flooding up to the Thames valley, would also solve a lot more problems than just the energy crisis
But yes, thumbs up for more renewable's, but also be realistic that non renewable's are equally important to create the required energy stability. At least until we can come up with a consistent renewable solution.
On a side note, its great to see one of SN lead Brexiteers posting an article about how Brexit is threatening the renewable energy growth in the UK When did you become a liberal and start reading the Guardian
But yes, thumbs up for more renewable's, but also be realistic that non renewable's are equally important to create the required energy stability. At least until we can come up with a consistent renewable solution.
On a side note, its great to see one of SN lead Brexiteers posting an article about how Brexit is threatening the renewable energy growth in the UK
When did you become a liberal and start reading the Guardian have faith in humanities ability to solve problems (the trick of course is to recognise the problem)
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 06 September 2018 at 01:30 PM.
13 September 2018, 07:02 PM
#253
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Youll never actual get 147 of course , well only for the 1st 27 miles !
its as an appalling con in the same way every celeb mus have a prius , somewhere , along with rest of the fleet
its as an appalling con in the same way every celeb mus have a prius , somewhere , along with rest of the fleet
13 September 2018, 07:04 PM
#254
Scooby Senior
Depends on the manufacturer. Some insist you buy, others insist you lease and others give you the option. If you buy, you may take a hit on the resale value. Leasing the bateery is probably the long term better option. If you can't lease the battery, the lease the car is the best option imho.
13 September 2018, 09:23 PM
#256
Scooby Senior
A gallon of petrol has a completely different energy density than diesel, LPG, Hydrogen and I'm really not sure about the energy density of a gallon of electricity.
Comparing diesel to petrol for example, diesel cars have a lower mpg figure, but diesel has a higher energy density than petrol. Petrol cars burn the fuel more efficiently though, so they can convert more of the stored energy into drive. On the balance, diesel is still more efficient than petrol, but not by as much as the mpg figures would imply.
To give a better comparrison, you really need to consider how much energy is required to travel a given distance for a given fuel type and vehicle. i.e. compare apples to apples!
For electric vehicles, you should also consider the energy loss from charging the vehicle. i.e. the amount of energy you have drawn from the grid and not the amount of energy the car used from the battery. Also, as has been said before, you don't know where the electricity came from. If its nice clean wind energy, then great, but if its from coal or gas, then you're almost certainly better off with oil based products from an efficiency point of view. Don't get me started on the amount of water you need to consume to extract the lithium from salt plains!
Another thing to consider for the future, hydrogen has the best energy density of all available vehicle energy sources Sod electric vehicles, convert to hydrogen
14 September 2018, 10:38 AM
#259
Given that the whole mining. refining, transporting, manufacturing process for the metals used for making these lithium ion batteries is one of the most polluting processes in the world, hybrids are really the worst of both worlds ecologically. Not only do they encourage pollution in the lithium manufacturing process but they also contribute to the pollution associated to the drilling, refining and transporting of crude oil as hybrids still use fossil fuels like a conventional car. Sure it looks great for the consumer at end of this chain they can quote nice green figures for their motor, but all it's done is shift the pollution elsewhere where lithium and colbolt mining and disposal of the associated waste is largely unregulated, unlike the oil industry.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...bor-practices/
https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...cars-batteries
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/20...s-Lithium.html
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...bor-practices/
https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...cars-batteries
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/20...s-Lithium.html
14 September 2018, 11:59 AM
#261
Originally Posted by BMWhere?
mpg is a completely useless figure for comparrison for anything other than cars on the same fuel. Its like omparing apples to chocolate teapots!
A gallon of petrol has a completely different energy density than diesel, LPG, Hydrogen and I'm really not sure about the energy density of a gallon of electricity.
Comparing diesel to petrol for example, diesel cars have a lower mpg figure, but diesel has a higher energy density than petrol. Petrol cars burn the fuel more efficiently though, so they can convert more of the stored energy into drive. On the balance, diesel is still more efficient than petrol, but not by as much as the mpg figures would imply.
To give a better comparrison, you really need to consider how much energy is required to travel a given distance for a given fuel type and vehicle. i.e. compare apples to apples!
For electric vehicles, you should also consider the energy loss from charging the vehicle. i.e. the amount of energy you have drawn from the grid and not the amount of energy the car used from the battery. Also, as has been said before, you don't know where the electricity came from. If its nice clean wind energy, then great, but if its from coal or gas, then you're almost certainly better off with oil based products from an efficiency point of view. Don't get me started on the amount of water you need to consume to extract the lithium from salt plains!
Another thing to consider for the future, hydrogen has the best energy density of all available vehicle energy sources Sod electric vehicles, convert to hydrogen
A gallon of petrol has a completely different energy density than diesel, LPG, Hydrogen and I'm really not sure about the energy density of a gallon of electricity.
Comparing diesel to petrol for example, diesel cars have a lower mpg figure, but diesel has a higher energy density than petrol. Petrol cars burn the fuel more efficiently though, so they can convert more of the stored energy into drive. On the balance, diesel is still more efficient than petrol, but not by as much as the mpg figures would imply.
To give a better comparrison, you really need to consider how much energy is required to travel a given distance for a given fuel type and vehicle. i.e. compare apples to apples!
For electric vehicles, you should also consider the energy loss from charging the vehicle. i.e. the amount of energy you have drawn from the grid and not the amount of energy the car used from the battery. Also, as has been said before, you don't know where the electricity came from. If its nice clean wind energy, then great, but if its from coal or gas, then you're almost certainly better off with oil based products from an efficiency point of view. Don't get me started on the amount of water you need to consume to extract the lithium from salt plains!
Another thing to consider for the future, hydrogen has the best energy density of all available vehicle energy sources Sod electric vehicles, convert to hydrogen
Hydrogen will probably be the mass fuel in the long term coupled with more efficient solar for partial charging as you go, plus other small bits.
14 September 2018, 06:41 PM
#262
can you buy a used electric car that has a battery lease and not take out the lease and take your chances with battery reliability? Looking at a 1 year old Renault Zoe but the battery lease puts me off. If I could ignore the lease option I could be tempted .
15 September 2018, 12:06 PM
#264
Scooby Senior
You would have to ask Renault if they would sell the battery as they are the owners. My guess is they wouldn't as it's their business model to lease the batteries. If you intend to keep the car for 5 years or more, then I wouldn't risk buying them, leading is probably the best long term option!
16 September 2018, 05:07 PM
#267
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Will we be able to dictate air pollution quality in deepest India eg , now we're out of the euros
( where its proper filthy for your health)
( where its proper filthy for your health)
16 September 2018, 06:30 PM
#268
17 September 2018, 07:53 AM
#269
Why does that bother you when the damage to people and children and the environmental and health impact is far worse for those who mine the cobalt and lithium in your cars? Just because you like to be smug about mpg and low emissions where you live, doesn't mean your car doesn't pollute elsewhere.
