Electric cars
06 February 2020, 01:23 PM
#541
Scooby Regular
The scenario that given as an example is so rare its not even worth the concern. Some are using the farthest fetched doom scenarios to justify their hatred of EVs.
Ive never been stuck for more than an hour in all my 40 years of driving.
Yes the technology is now available. Ive proven to myself I can use a low end EV, do 100 miles every day and not be impeded at all. Savings galore in running, emissions, servicing
Ive never been stuck for more than an hour in all my 40 years of driving.
Yes the technology is now available. Ive proven to myself I can use a low end EV, do 100 miles every day and not be impeded at all. Savings galore in running, emissions, servicing
06 February 2020, 02:44 PM
#542
Scooby Senior
A study showed that 20% uptake in heatpumps created a 14% increase in grid demand. On the assumption they are heatpumos operating in their normal mode (not in extra heat mode which uses significantly more electricity). Assume gas boilers are banned and eco incentives we could scale that uptake to 80% resulting in a 56% national increase in household electricity consumption!
And thats a increase and before plugging in the car or switching on the hob to fry an egg! What if it’s colder than usual? Climate change as you well know doesn’t mean it’s going to be warmer, we’ll see more regular temperatures extremes. So, it’s -5 degrees outside, the humid air has caused the air source heatpump to freeze up its evaporator fins so it has to switch to extra heat mode, which can be between 3 and 12kw depending on the size of the unit (mines 9Kw plus 2.5kw for the compressor). So let’s say that conservatively a heatpump in extra/auxiliary/emergency heat mode needs four times its usual power...400%. And let’s say 15% of household suffer this problem, that’s 15% using 400% which together means and total electric increase is now 60%
And thats a increase and before plugging in the car or switching on the hob to fry an egg! What if it’s colder than usual? Climate change as you well know doesn’t mean it’s going to be warmer, we’ll see more regular temperatures extremes. So, it’s -5 degrees outside, the humid air has caused the air source heatpump to freeze up its evaporator fins so it has to switch to extra heat mode, which can be between 3 and 12kw depending on the size of the unit (mines 9Kw plus 2.5kw for the compressor). So let’s say that conservatively a heatpump in extra/auxiliary/emergency heat mode needs four times its usual power...400%. And let’s say 15% of household suffer this problem, that’s 15% using 400% which together means and total electric increase is now 60%
It's very easy to get blinkered by the whole EV argument and the media is pumping a very one sided argument, but its important not to lose sight of the bigger picture.
The kids are getting it though, which is a reassuring sign. Firstly they have been brought up to be skeptical of everything they read online and generally don't trust the media. They also get that the best way to reduce carbon emissions from personal transport is to take public transport. Fewer and fewer young people are opting not to buy a car and many are not even bothering with a driving license.
EVs have their positives, particularly for inner city air quality and certainly have a place in the available transport mix. But when you consider the whole picture, for the majority of users, they will have limited positive impact on climate change and cause significant other environmental damage, such that it is currently better to stick with an ICE vehicle that swapping to a current gen EV. Then there is the whole issue of access to charging points, which may be fine for people with a driveway, but if you rely on on-street parking, EVs are simply not an option. Then there are grid capacity issues which are not going to be solved in the next 15 years, making banning of ICEs impossible.
If EVs are the right solution for you, then yes, you should absolutely go down that path, but you also have to look realistically at the whole picture and accept that in many cases they are not a good solution and should not be used. Most importantly, we should be considering more lifestyle changes rather than simply swapping from ICE to EV and continuing with our unsustainable habits!
Greta gets it and thankfully the kids listen more to her than they do to Boris Johnson or the Daily Mail! You wonder why there is so much hatred towards her, its because she is more effective at delivering change than the politicians or press could ever dream of and her change is putting the environment rightly ahead of the economy and that seriously scares the people in power!
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06 February 2020, 07:26 PM
#543
Originally Posted by BMWhere?
This is why the house I'm building will have 7KW of solar to easily power the heat pump, and I added a backup system using a wood burner which is capable of fully heating the house when it's too cold/dark to efficiently use the heat pump.
The major problem in the UK is its housing is well below acceptable standards, and those that claim to be still fall short. Even new builds.
Workmanship is poor, knowledge from both homeowners and tradespeople of ‘doing it right’ is lacking, materials aren’t as good as they claim to be. Getting stuff built or altered is at the mercy of the local planners giving approval which is especially awkward in green belt and conservation areas (my neighbour had permission refused to demolish and rebuild his house to modern standards).
We need to do a lot better.
06 February 2020, 10:17 PM
#544
Scooby Senior
The major problem in the UK is its housing is well below acceptable standards, and those that claim to be still fall short. Even new builds.
Workmanship is poor, knowledge from both homeowners and tradespeople of ‘doing it right’ is lacking, materials aren’t as good as they claim to be. Getting stuff built or altered is at the mercy of the local planners giving approval which is especially awkward in green belt and conservation areas (my neighbour had permission refused to demolish and rebuild his house to modern standards).
We need to do a lot better.
Workmanship is poor, knowledge from both homeowners and tradespeople of ‘doing it right’ is lacking, materials aren’t as good as they claim to be. Getting stuff built or altered is at the mercy of the local planners giving approval which is especially awkward in green belt and conservation areas (my neighbour had permission refused to demolish and rebuild his house to modern standards).
We need to do a lot better.
The minimum new-build requirement here is to save 15% compared to the average German home, with the average being reassessed every couple of years, so its a sliding requirement driving ever more efficient homes. If you come in at 45% energy reduction, then you qualify for government supported credit and cash-back deals. I'm building to a target of 60% energy reduction compared to the average which gives me €100K low interest credit with €15K cash-back incentive, plus another €6.5K for being self sustaining with Solar. Using pre-fabricated techniques, tripple glased Pasiv-House windows, modern insulation and membranes with a ventilation system and head exchanger, its not actually so difficult to meet the 60% saving standard and only adds around €25K to traditional building techniques, which when you offset against the cash-back offers, it means only around €4K personal outlay which will easily be recovered in under 5 years on electricity bills alone!
Given my excess of solar power (planned 7KW solar, estimated self consumption 4.5KW), then the environmental balance for an EV would certainly make it a more attractive alternative for my case, however the new house will be only 3KM from work, so I'll be barely using my car in future, which then flips the balance back to keeping the Scooby
07 February 2020, 09:27 AM
#545
Yeah, Germany is way ahead on energy efficient housing and incentive schemes, although building costs are also much higher, but self ownership is also quite uncommon. Renting is the standard way of living.
The minimum new-build requirement here is to save 15% compared to the average German home, with the average being reassessed every couple of years, so its a sliding requirement driving ever more efficient homes. If you come in at 45% energy reduction, then you qualify for government supported credit and cash-back deals. I'm building to a target of 60% energy reduction compared to the average which gives me €100K low interest credit with €15K cash-back incentive, plus another €6.5K for being self sustaining with Solar. Using pre-fabricated techniques, tripple glased Pasiv-House windows, modern insulation and membranes with a ventilation system and head exchanger, its not actually so difficult to meet the 60% saving standard and only adds around €25K to traditional building techniques, which when you offset against the cash-back offers, it means only around €4K personal outlay which will easily be recovered in under 5 years on electricity bills alone!
Given my excess of solar power (planned 7KW solar, estimated self consumption 4.5KW), then the environmental balance for an EV would certainly make it a more attractive alternative for my case, however the new house will be only 3KM from work, so I'll be barely using my car in future, which then flips the balance back to keeping the Scooby
The minimum new-build requirement here is to save 15% compared to the average German home, with the average being reassessed every couple of years, so its a sliding requirement driving ever more efficient homes. If you come in at 45% energy reduction, then you qualify for government supported credit and cash-back deals. I'm building to a target of 60% energy reduction compared to the average which gives me €100K low interest credit with €15K cash-back incentive, plus another €6.5K for being self sustaining with Solar. Using pre-fabricated techniques, tripple glased Pasiv-House windows, modern insulation and membranes with a ventilation system and head exchanger, its not actually so difficult to meet the 60% saving standard and only adds around €25K to traditional building techniques, which when you offset against the cash-back offers, it means only around €4K personal outlay which will easily be recovered in under 5 years on electricity bills alone!
Given my excess of solar power (planned 7KW solar, estimated self consumption 4.5KW), then the environmental balance for an EV would certainly make it a more attractive alternative for my case, however the new house will be only 3KM from work, so I'll be barely using my car in future, which then flips the balance back to keeping the Scooby
Yesterday was clear sun all day and it peaked at 1.1kw mid afternoon, it probably managed about 4kwh, most of the time with cloud its half that. As such the return on investment on this install is likely to be beyond the lifespan of the panels and inverter
Who/what/why decided to install them there is beyond me, maybe ‘the wife’ didn’t want them on the front and spoiling ‘the look’. Worse still they built a double garage...perfect opertunity to have a south facing roof...nope, they pitched the roof East/West
This is my point really, it’s simply idiocy on both previous homeowner, planners and installers.
Now, as it is it’s a undersized install from the off, that is only generating half of its potential at best, doubling it payback time. If I want to improve it I’m faced with either moving it, or adding to it... The latter would be another 3kw on a East roof or in the garden facing south, but even when costing that up, the return on investment is far too long IMHO.
So for me the ideal course is to minimise energy use rather than mitigate it with panels. This is where the house’s construction is called into question, like so many British homes it’s typical of having extensions and modifications throughout its life when really it should have been knocked down and rebuilt. I’m lucky that it was re-skinned with thermalite blocks and second insulated cavity...with render its over 400mm!
Still there are lots of shortcomings...new windows not sealing fully and leak air, under closer scrutiny the hollows in the frames are empty with no insulation and I’d question the effectiveness of the thermal breaks...I’m surprised that this is still the ‘norm’ for modern PVC/Aluminum window frames!
I honestly could go on and on about stuff like this. But realistically, I can only do so much before finances dictate that the return on investment isn’t worth it. I don’t care about the eco argument, it’s all about what all the humdrum essentials cost...like power, water internet etc.
07 February 2020, 10:22 AM
#546
Scooby Senior
I’m currently looking at solar PV, I inherited a 3kw roof install from the previous owner, but they are all facing West! Fine in summer with long afternoon/evenings...practically useless in winter without intelligent energy management within the house.
Yesterday was clear sun all day and it peaked at 1.1kw mid afternoon, it probably managed about 4kwh, most of the time with cloud its half that. As such the return on investment on this install is likely to be beyond the lifespan of the panels and inverter
Who/what/why decided to install them there is beyond me, maybe ‘the wife’ didn’t want them on the front and spoiling ‘the look’. Worse still they built a double garage...perfect opertunity to have a south facing roof...nope, they pitched the roof East/West
This is my point really, it’s simply idiocy on both previous homeowner, planners and installers.
Now, as it is it’s a undersized install from the off, that is only generating half of its potential at best, doubling it payback time. If I want to improve it I’m faced with either moving it, or adding to it... The latter would be another 3kw on a East roof or in the garden facing south, but even when costing that up, the return on investment is far too long IMHO.
So for me the ideal course is to minimise energy use rather than mitigate it with panels. This is where the house’s construction is called into question, like so many British homes it’s typical of having extensions and modifications throughout its life when really it should have been knocked down and rebuilt. I’m lucky that it was re-skinned with thermalite blocks and second insulated cavity...with render its over 400mm!
Still there are lots of shortcomings...new windows not sealing fully and leak air, under closer scrutiny the hollows in the frames are empty with no insulation and I’d question the effectiveness of the thermal breaks...I’m surprised that this is still the ‘norm’ for modern PVC/Aluminum window frames!
I honestly could go on and on about stuff like this. But realistically, I can only do so much before finances dictate that the return on investment isn’t worth it. I don’t care about the eco argument, it’s all about what all the humdrum essentials cost...like power, water internet etc.
Yesterday was clear sun all day and it peaked at 1.1kw mid afternoon, it probably managed about 4kwh, most of the time with cloud its half that. As such the return on investment on this install is likely to be beyond the lifespan of the panels and inverter
Who/what/why decided to install them there is beyond me, maybe ‘the wife’ didn’t want them on the front and spoiling ‘the look’. Worse still they built a double garage...perfect opertunity to have a south facing roof...nope, they pitched the roof East/West
This is my point really, it’s simply idiocy on both previous homeowner, planners and installers.
Now, as it is it’s a undersized install from the off, that is only generating half of its potential at best, doubling it payback time. If I want to improve it I’m faced with either moving it, or adding to it... The latter would be another 3kw on a East roof or in the garden facing south, but even when costing that up, the return on investment is far too long IMHO.
So for me the ideal course is to minimise energy use rather than mitigate it with panels. This is where the house’s construction is called into question, like so many British homes it’s typical of having extensions and modifications throughout its life when really it should have been knocked down and rebuilt. I’m lucky that it was re-skinned with thermalite blocks and second insulated cavity...with render its over 400mm!
Still there are lots of shortcomings...new windows not sealing fully and leak air, under closer scrutiny the hollows in the frames are empty with no insulation and I’d question the effectiveness of the thermal breaks...I’m surprised that this is still the ‘norm’ for modern PVC/Aluminum window frames!
I honestly could go on and on about stuff like this. But realistically, I can only do so much before finances dictate that the return on investment isn’t worth it. I don’t care about the eco argument, it’s all about what all the humdrum essentials cost...like power, water internet etc.
Trying to modernise an older building for modern building efficiency will always cost more than any potential savings. The only cost effective way to implement efficiency in a building is with a new-build. Very few people will invest large sums of their own money for purely environmental reasons. So if we want people to actually do the needed modernisation or re-building, then there has to be a proper incentive scheme in place to re-balance the sums that people will be willing to invest in improvements.
24 March 2020, 01:53 PM
#552
I don't think electric is a fad, but I suspect battery cars will be, unless there is a step change in technology or some way to make them without raping the earth for rare minerals. Again.
24 March 2020, 02:24 PM
#553
Scooby Senior
I think battery cars will have their place for a long time, but they will never be the single or largest alternative to ICE vehicles.
08 April 2020, 09:48 AM
#555
Scooby Regular
Crazy man , it’s just a luxury item
If it could be proven the electric has come from renewable sources then just might be acceptable, not otherwise
who is going to pay for your new electric infrastructure ??
Isle Man has the right idea
If it could be proven the electric has come from renewable sources then just might be acceptable, not otherwise
who is going to pay for your new electric infrastructure ??
Isle Man has the right idea
10 June 2020, 10:52 AM
#557
Scooby Regular
Anything to do with lockdown and sunniest spring ever !?!
Mr PayPal certainly got a lockdown on most of us
6k isn’t going to tempt me to get turned over on a new leaf either
Mr PayPal certainly got a lockdown on most of us
6k isn’t going to tempt me to get turned over on a new leaf either
Last edited by IdonthaveaScooby; 10 June 2020 at 10:54 AM.
10 June 2020, 01:16 PM
#558
Scooby Senior
I also read a very interesting report the other day on a Chinese company that is ready to start production of new car batteries with 1 million km/16 year life. Will certainly tip the overall CO2 balance much more favourably to the electric car, but will have to see the construction details to asses if there is a reduction in other environmental damage related to the battery production before we can say this is a real positive step forward for EV's over ICE's. I'd still prefer to see more H2 vehicles over EV's though!
10 June 2020, 01:32 PM
#559
Scooby Regular
No, we've just cut down hard wood trees in North America and shipped them to Drax instead and claimed it's carbon neutral.
10 June 2020, 01:51 PM
#560
Scooby Regular
Well its cutting down hardwood forest in favour of quick grow softwood pulp forest
in the same vein as bio fuel and palm olive
no more amazon
in the same vein as bio fuel and palm olive
no more amazon
12 July 2020, 08:52 AM
#564
Our Nissan Leaf will cost the equivalent of buying a brand new car for £9000.00 in what we save in not buying petrol.
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12 July 2020, 10:24 AM
#566
Scooby Regular
I’m curious as to how the car market will deal with the transition period coming (whether it be in 2 or 20 years) from ICE to EV/BEV. Current financial climate aside. When do car manufacturers switch focus. If you fancy buying a family car, want something with a bit of poke and makes a nice noise. Something considered well built you may be looking at spending 25k up to 40k depending on your requirements and financial situation. If you do it over 3/4/5 year finance are you at risk that by the time you pay it off its almost obsolete. What will happen to trade in values given the fact your trade in (if you choose that route) is also eventually obsolete. Eventually the government will force our hands I’m sure but how will they deal with basically penalising those who can’t afford to change.
Also at what point do we all stop spending money on our cars as the writing is on the wall and they are on their way out. Will you actually ever be allowed to drive them again? I would imagine we will but be hugely taxed until such a point they are eventually phased out full stop.
Also at what point do we all stop spending money on our cars as the writing is on the wall and they are on their way out. Will you actually ever be allowed to drive them again? I would imagine we will but be hugely taxed until such a point they are eventually phased out full stop.
12 July 2020, 04:02 PM
#567
I’m curious as to how the car market will deal with the transition period coming (whether it be in 2 or 20 years) from ICE to EV/BEV. Current financial climate aside. When do car manufacturers switch focus. If you fancy buying a family car, want something with a bit of poke and makes a nice noise. Something considered well built you may be looking at spending 25k up to 40k depending on your requirements and financial situation. If you do it over 3/4/5 year finance are you at risk that by the time you pay it off its almost obsolete. What will happen to trade in values given the fact your trade in (if you choose that route) is also eventually obsolete. Eventually the government will force our hands I’m sure but how will they deal with basically penalising those who can’t afford to change.
Also at what point do we all stop spending money on our cars as the writing is on the wall and they are on their way out. Will you actually ever be allowed to drive them again? I would imagine we will but be hugely taxed until such a point they are eventually phased out full stop.
Also at what point do we all stop spending money on our cars as the writing is on the wall and they are on their way out. Will you actually ever be allowed to drive them again? I would imagine we will but be hugely taxed until such a point they are eventually phased out full stop.
Emissions, legislation and public demand will rapidly shrink ICE production. In the meantime legacy manufacturers are trying to cash in by massively over inflating EV new car costs.
Battery cost per kW has plummeted in recent years.
Evs are much simpler in design and require thousands of less parts
Yes there are massive savings running an EV but these could be considerably improved if legacy cars companies didn't try to milk customers.
13 July 2020, 10:58 AM
#569
Scooby Regular
yes its got to be enforcement , since nobody really quite buys the environmental arugument
unless theyre one that is directly affected by exhaust emissons
unless theyre one that is directly affected by exhaust emissons