Exactly: If successive governments during the last 20years had invested just half of their £30-40billion fuel/road tax income back into transport every year. We wouldn’t need cars.

 

What will happen with driving tests? If you pass in an auto car, you can't drive manual, but in 2040, 10 years after we move on, all the instructors will have shiny new electric auto cars, yet an 18year old who has just passed their test, the only option open to them is a 12 year old banger, which is petrol/diesel and manual?

You can't just let people loose on their own in a manual car first time out!

I'm not saying this should be a barrier, defending ICE etc, it's just a genuine question.

 

Aged manual cars will be quite valuable for a few years until there is a glut of used town/commuter EVs for sale


My youngest child will be taught by me just before the ICE ban comes into play. I expect she will be using our Nissan Leaf to learn

 

I guess it will be like 7.5ton and minibuses where you’ll just have to take a different test to drive a manual. I was the last year to have the old school licence before they made these categories a separate test.

The 7.5ton class has come in handy over the years

 

And, what will the second hand market for EV cars be like? It remains to be seen what battery life we get out of these things, and the battery is the single most expensive component, it's not lke you can get a second hand engine to replace your current 1.3l if it goes bang! recycling old batteries?

Alot of things to be sorted in 10 years, sounds like a log time, but knowing how the UK works, it's far too short!

 

The life of battery packs is excellent overall. Lots of horror stories being bandied around, but then when you see battery packs being repaired for £500 pound by swapping out the faulty sub paxk instead of the whole battery assembly.

This will only get better, with time. Batteries can be recycled and again this will improve as sclae up of products appear..

There is an afterlife for car batteries with storage banks being the obvious option.

Most manufacturers offer 8 year 100,000 mile warranty. Its all to do keeping the charge in the 20-85% range for the majority of tbe time. This is where lithium cells can be charged many thousands of times before degrading

It doesn't mean charging to 100% is forbidden, just used for long trips, which has been demonstrated, are few and far between, compared to short local journeys

 

UK electric vehicle maker 'Arrival' to list on Nasdaq amid surging demand

 

I’m currently rebuilding my Makita battery packs....First pack died (two shorted cells tripped the protection circuit) after just six years. Second pack died last week after eleven years of DIY use but spent the past 12months with obvious loss of capacity....considering Teslas also use 18550s it doesn’t inspire me with confidence of longevity (Makita cells were Sony). So battery pack rebuilds/repairs is going to be inevitable...

Spot welding ten 18550 unprotected cells on a drill is one thing. Doing the same on a Tesla pack is going to be lot more arduous and time consuming....and if it goes wrong, erm, yeah, could be fun.


If it were a £6k Dacia you’d say fair do, ten year lifespan, car’s scrap. Something of higher value they are definitely going to need a exchange/insurance plan.

 

I reckon Tesla Panasonic batteries will be of superior quality to Makita batteries. The most important factor is the way the batteries are held within a temperature range and charged management- Tesla are supreme at battery management.
Building replacement blocks will be automated to ensure high QC
​​​​​​​
Tesla's battery day revealed their new tabless cells bonded into the body of the car with resin. They must be pretty confident these cells wont fail and be able to deliver a million miles.

 

Then I think it is reasonable for Tesla to give a 500k mile warranty on the batteries. What is the battery warranty at this moment?

 

These Makita cells are Sony VT...used in many applications from small gadgets all the way up to eBikes.

Packs have cell management on each cell pair (five pairs) as well as temperature monitoring. Circuit permanently locks out charging if a cell pair goes faulty or out of voltage range. Charging circuit also logs charge and discharge cycles for warranty purposes.

The fact youtube is full of EV battery tear downs is a indicator of the future. When more manufacturers jump on board resource demand will certainly have a impact on cell quality. Remember Chinese capacitor syndrome? That wrecked the reputation of many Japanese and American electrical goods manufacturers. A plague that started from stolen/copied designs that ended up in China then spread over to Taiwan, its still a problem today.

 

How actually do you repair/replace one particular cell in say a cube over 1000 A2 or the like ?

 

As I understand it if a bad cell is pulling down the block pack, its more efficient to cut the fuse wire to that cell, its removal from the parallel is minimal. Its only when multiple cells fail then the block is replaced for another block.

I ran Leaf Spy on my Nissan Leaf to see how the cell packs were doing, fully charged all 96 cells were within 4 milli Volts of each other, and when nearly flat they were within 12mV. My A/hr rating with voltage indicates I have 98% capacity at 50k miles usage.

Nissan is known to be a simple design with no active cooling/heating with fluid around the cells. Unlike Tesla which flows coolant around all of its many thousands of cells. This is either heated or cooled to maintain best performance

 

Everyone is assuming batteries, but what about developments around Hydrogen? That would be much better?

 

It will be when they can produce Hydrogen without burning fossil fuels to extract the hydrogen.

Currently 95% of Hydrogen production comes from Steam Methane Reforming (SMR). Methane is a fossil fuel.
Then there is the energy to make 1kg of liquid hydrogen around 50kWatts, whether that's provided by a green energy supply or not, it is a great deal of energy.

Once these not so tiny issues are overcome, Hydrogen will be more a specialist energy supply.

Looking forward to the development of said technology

 

We'll just go on burning someone elses wood lol

thatll make us carbon nuetral gulit load shifted out the back yard

 

I Don find it interesting how issues I raised 18 months ago on here and got shot down, are now being talked about in a serious light.

Told you so,,,, lol

Anyway un all seriousness I cant help but think its a jump with both feet rea tion to what we are not prepared for. Batterybtevh and a suitable network arnt in place, rhe network is an easy one, just put more charging stations down. But the tech issue is a big one.

Don't get me wrong, I hope om wrong and we do develop the tech in time, but I can see it being another diesel situation of they push it now.

 

Its not quite so simple as just building more charging stations, we'll also need more power stations to supply the electricity to the charging stations!

While lithium batteries can be partially recycled, the industry isn't currently capable of recycling vehicle batteries, which means dead batteries are currently ending up in landfill! Re-purposing is also an option where the energy demands on the batteries are not as high as EVs, which will extend the life of EV batteries, but currently there is minimal demand for re-purposing and ultimately the batteries are still doomed to die at some point.

I find it really interesting that searching the internet, you can never find an actual cost to replace the batteries of an EV. Currently all manufacturers that don't have a battery rental scheme seem to be replacing dead batteries for free, even those out of warranty, which is very generous, but can't continue forever! It's like they don't really want you to know how much replacing the batteries is going to cost you, presumably because they know it would kill the EV market overnight.

 

iv seen couple places internet suggesting they recycle batteries

i too suspect this is just one more inconvient truth ev enthusiasts dont like to talk about , or would like us to believe peeps can just simply repurpose them as storage for thier rooftop solar panel

bit like theres no plan at all presenlty for spent nuclear components for the all these pop up sites being suggested

out of sight out of mind -

( unless uou can smell it on your rural throughfare )

 

EV Batteries could be (partially) recycled just like any other lithium batteries, but the recycling industry is currently unable to handle large batteries in any significant quantity. They will get there, but they are currently significantly lagging the demand.

EVs would be great if it wasn't for the damned batteries

 

If there is one thing that’s guaranteed to get my asthma playing up its the fumes from burning wood.

Diesel fumes on the other hand don’t have an affect on me.

I find it bonkers they are trying to phase out natural gas but think burning wood is fine

 

ive said before, EV's are the current biggest con out there. There is so much they dont tell you cos they know it will kill them in their current form.

 

18.5k little fires , what a nightmare

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/37711/...rts-house-fire

 

Testimony to the safety standards of the Tesla the drugged up driver lived to be prosecuted.

I counter, I remember this after seeing the skid marks on the road when visiting Peterborough a while back

This driver died

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily...81934538605965

 

Likley summat to do with the drugs and not being head-on for drivers postion

 

Tesla use 21700 cells, but are switching to 4680 which are meant to be far better.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...true&r=US&IR=T

 

You're a little bit late to post

Its no difference to having, petrol/diesel/engine, transmission oils leaking from an ICE accident.

Its a good marker to NHSTA standards that gives the Model 3 a very high safety rating in crashes.

It was after allegedly traveling at 100mph which is 146 feet/second. Im surprised the vehicle wasn't cut in two traveling at those speeds at impact

 

So these cars dont use any other fluids to make them run/stop ?

 

My Nissan only uses brake fluid, everything else is air cooled. Tesla and many others use coolant to control battery packs. but you already know this, you're just trolling the point 🤪