Paben

iTrader: (5)

You do understand that's a poem and not an historical account?

JTaylor

I do understand that, yes. That doesn't detract from the immense truth held within though, Paben.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Not sure about truth but having read and re-read it many times I've always thought Milton expressed considerable sympathy for Satan and his cohorts. Satan even regrets corrupting Adam and Eve but of course does it anyway. Nevertheless I always feel pity for him. Did Milton intend this?

JTaylor

I think Milton intended the poem to read the reader rather than for the reader to read the poem. What we see in Satan is our own nature outside of Christ; when one feels pity for Satan they're actually feeling pity for themselves. The pride, the arrogance and the rebellion leading to, without the saving grace of Jesus, an eternal disconnect from God. We want to be our own god to such an extent that we'll will Him dead. Still, better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven...right?

Buzzer2017

A lot of people come on and ask for genuine advice and are told to use the search facility.
Im sure the friendly guys eventually get a pain in there hoop posting the same stuff.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Always, absolutely. I don't feel pity for myself but I do understand why Satan would resent being created just so he could worship the creator. I'm sure mere mortal roboteers don't expect their creations to worship them, we would think them mad. Why would the Supreme Being demand it?

JTaylor

Admiration is one of life's deepest pleasures and God is perfectly and eternally admirable. It is an act of love. When I praise God I do so with overflowing joy.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

What exactly is it that you find so admirable? With a wave of his hand God could make life a paradise on earth, but instead He chooses to allow so much misery, grief, disease and untimely death to persist. And don't fall back on original sin to explain it. Forgiveness is highly commended, so why not a Godly wave of forgiveness to set that aside too? No, God is not admirable: if he exists then He hates his creations and you can't prove otherwise.

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

JTaylor, genuine question here. Let’s say that tomorrow, it is proven that extra terrestrial life does indeed exist and that we have been visited by ‘aliens’. Bearing in mind that according to the bible, in the beginning, there were only Adam and Eve, how would this affect your faith and belief in your religion?

JTaylor

You seem pretty angry at a God in whom you claim not to believe.

JTaylor

First, I don't subscribe to a literal interpretation of the Adam and Eve story; I'm what's called in theological circles an evolutionary creationist. I'm of the view that the story paints a picture of humanity first becoming conscious of consciousness and of God and how we then rebelled against Him and curved in on ourselves. The Fall explains via imagery and allegory how Adam (man) and Eve (life) brought sin in to the world. So, given that the archetypal pair are, to my mind, mythological and that I derive my knowledge of the physical (rather than spiritual) world from the revelation of science, my understanding of our origins would be unaffected by the arrival. This is not to say that some of the truths of Genesis would go unchallenged. As such, because I trust in the Bible, it's rational for me to subscribe to the Fermi Paradox.

poffer1

Likewise. I first joined in 2004 and it was friendly and helpful, so I came back when I got another Subaru. There are a few good souls on here, but I think they are losing to the trolls and weirdos.

As soon as a new thread pops up, a whole bunch of nutters jump in to scribble "I woz 'ere". And this thread is a perfect illustration.

Sad..

dpb

Which ones are the nutters, which ones are the weirdos and which ones are the trolls ?

in your own time

Paben

iTrader: (5)

You have a great knack for sidestepping questions. What do you find so admirable about a hateful God who inflicts such misery on his creations?

JTaylor

I don't accept the premise, Paben. What you see as hate, I see as wrath. What you describe as inflicting misery, I know to be a curse. I admire, for one, the justice that He serves. He's not to be trifled with. You hate God and pity Satan; may Jesus save you.

Mr Fuji

Why is it wrath? Didn't God give people free will, so surely he would just go "meh, not my problem"

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Simulation theory FTW
We are all just part of a computer program so who gives a fvck

Paben

iTrader: (5)

If being saved means an eternity of grovelling at a wrathful God's feet then I don't want to be saved by Jesus or anyone else thanks. I would rather be extinguished than endure that grim sentence.

But you've sidestepped the question again. What do you find admirable about God? Please don't quote His justice: He has none. He exhibits no pity, no mercy, no love. If I treated my cat like God treats his creatures I would rightly be thrown in jail. He gets away with it because there is no retribution that can be visited on Him.

More likely your God was actually a natural force that created unknowingly then moved on. We weren't forgotten or mistreated: we were never known in the first place.

JTaylor

You're describing an unloving and irresponsible parent. The Father bestows tough love upon His creation and there are consequences for disobedience. If one rejects Jesus, those consequences are eternal.

SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

Which bible? The one that claims the earth is flat and that the sun goes round the earth and that it's okay to keep slaves?

gazney101

iTrader: (5)

I think he means you

SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

And I hate all medieval superstitions propagated by those who seek to bind us, infantilise us and obstruct us in our pursuit of truth and knowledge.

JTaylor

I'm not side-stepping, I'm avoiding the straw and false premises. You ask me a question and then answer it on my behalf. You ask me another question and then tell me the answers that are prohibited. Additionally, you are on the one hand saying that you hate God's character, but on the other that He's nothing more than a casual place marker for an unknowable source. Get your ducks in a row.

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Yet another sidestep. I'm asking what you find admirable about God. If you have no thoughtful answer then that's fine.

SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

You should be so lucky!


No, thanks to Taylor's Father's tough love you're going to burn in hell and your screams will be heard for all eternity.


That's what I do with my kids when they step out of line (and I really love them).

JTaylor

Ancient cosmology preceded the advent of the scientific method. Biblical depictions of the observable universe were for humans whose understanding of the world around them was very different to ours. Evolutionary creationists do not claim that the Bible is a science text book.

Augustine claimed, and I agree with him, that slavary was born out of sin. I would urge you to read-up on Christianity's role in abolition (you may wish to start with Wilberforce). Finally, can you imagine a world in which man had no moral compass and where even the concept of God was absent? Slavery existed throughout the ancient world and Christ's ethical revolution led to its abolition. This is praiseworthy.

JTaylor

He's infinitely perfect.

JTaylor

That's the consequence of rejecting Jesus. You and I are so depraved and wretched that we ought to be immeasurably thankful that the Father sent His only Son to atone for our sins.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

He is? Then why isn't his creation?

I would refer you to Steven Fry's interview with the Catholic priest.

JTaylor

You appear to have a narrow view of what truth and knowledge is, Sam. I imagine this is because you have been indoctrinated in to world dominated by the material and scientism. I'd like to invite you to invite Jesus in to your life.