Mr Fuji

It's an odd mind set that wants out of the EU so much that they are prepared to see the possible ruination of their country.

I suppose being old, you won't be around to see the worst of it

neil-h

It's not all bad, after all it could see the reunification of Ireland.

BMWhere?

Saw that this morning and was thinking the same thing!

This is the reality of trade deals, they only encompass the areas that each size sees the most benefit from and anything that is seen as a threat will remain with tariffs. The bigger countries will always demand more and give less, like the Swiss/China deal that gives China immediate access to Switzerland with no Swiss access to China for 15 years! Nobody will ever want to do a completely free trade deal like we have within the EU and with the security that you can't just cancel it!

Trump has already cancelled the TPP deal, he wants to pull out of NAFTA and he's also threatening to pull out of a Korean trade deal. Now at the drop of a hat he adds a 220% tariff on Bombardier!

You read articles like THIS on the visions of global free trade after Brexit and yes, it would be great to eliminate all trade barriers all over the world, but nobody is every going to agree to it! Its quite frankly amazing that the EU has achieved it with member states, but that has only been possible due to the political union that goes with the EU.

Mr Fuji

This was also quite amusing.

Aptly displayed by some of the Wrexiteers on here

dpb

Don't worry , Fallon has bluffed it out -

just like Boris and other chief brexiteers are Telling the EU where to stick it lol

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'd say an odder one would rather see us being run by an unelected combo running us down for the benefit of some eastern europeans.
And their own ideology, of course.

Mr Fuji

Which pretty much demonstrates the era you grew up in, how little you understand the world and the way it is going, and how little you understand the EU, how it works and what it tries to achieve.

No great surprises, there. Perhaps you should read the Richard Attenborough interview.........

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I think that, having lived Pre-EU, (Common Market, EC etc), and lived through the mess created by the EU, having seen the underhand tactics of most countries, while the UK tries to abide by the rules, having lived with and experienced the hardships brought about by EU policies, I'd be in a uniquely single position to comment?

You make great play of my age...perhaps YOU need to be a little older to be qulaified to comment? Or does it only work one (your) way?

mrtheedge2u2

Your life quality has increased more under the period of time within the EU than at any time outside of it. As much as you hate it the fact that you were in the EU has allowed you to experience life benefits like no other..... everyting from Medical to lifestyle.

dpb

That's not going to wash I'm afraid .

If it weren't for us single handedly improving the lives of a few member States we would be far away , no doubt a super power by now

dpb

Which particular hardships have YOU had to endure ?

Mr Fuji

And yet we have still flourished under the EU more than any time in recent history, despite those real, or imagined, scenarios.

As for abiding by the rules is that the fault of the EU? No, it's ours.

What hardships have you experienced personally at the hands of the EU? I'm not saying you haven't, but considering the benefits to most of the nation, don't you see that as a bit selfish?

As for being old to be qualified to comment, that doesn't really stand up. I was born in the 60s, so yes, most of my life has been in the EU. However, the UK tried for a long time to get in. There is a reason for that. The fact that people like yourself don't like it doesn't change the fact that it was, and is, something that was good for the UK.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

LOL, and the FACT that the majority voted to get out shows just how bad it has been for the MAJORITY.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Been over them time and time again on this site.
Apparently they either don't exist, or don't matter

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Right, because the older generation(s) who swung the vote, of retiree home-owners with their pensions, second homes in France or on the Costa have all got it sooooo bad compared with the 20, 30 or 40 somethings who struggle to pay the rent, child-care and other basic bills, and can only dream of actually buying their own place one day.

Mr Fuji

The majority (and let's be honest, 52-48 isn't exactly a landslide) of people who voted. There's 46.5 million people in the UK eligible to vote, 17 million want out.

You assertion is incorrect, I'm afraid.

I accept we do not know how those others would have voted, but it doesn't change the fact you do not know whether the majority want out.

I imagine that if we had a referendum, we could return capital punishment. That would not be a good thing either, so the link between what people want and what is good or moral is not clear cut.

As usual, the vocal minority turn out, apathy and complacency are democracy's enemy.

dpb

Its ok though , like trump , presumably counting on gov shoving up taxes so all the jobs come back home!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Your whole post is supposition...unless you have PROOF that those were the voters?
A few polls doesn't make your assertion correct.

I know as many twenty-somethings who voted out as I do folk like me.

And I ALSO know as many like me who voted stay. MOST of them aren't bitter, though. They realise that it was democarcy and are quietly getting on with it.

Can I suggest you do likewise?

Personally I wouldn't PRESUME to know who voted and what for.
All I know is that out of those who turned out, the MAJORITY wanted OUT.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Unless the UK brings in a law like in Australia where you MUST vote, you are never going to get everyone to vote.

It would APPEAR that those who didn't vote didn't care either way?
Which makes your point moot.

However, I do not presume that that is the fact. Let's deal in facts, then:

It IS the FACT that of THOSE WHO VOTED, THE MAJORITY VOTED TO GO!

Now we need to get on with it.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for confirming you're as thoroughly ill-informed and woefully ignorant on this subject as many of us have suspected all along. And let's not mince words here. For you to still be so poorly informed and ignorant, so long after the actual vote, and after spending so long here (and presumably elsewhere) discussing the subject, can only mean one of two things. Either 1) you're wilfully maintaining that state of ill-informedness and ignorance, or 2) you're just incredibly dense.

I'll start a poll when I get a spare minute to put THAT to a vote of SNetters, and see what result we get back.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

What on EARTH are you talking about?

Do you ACTUALLY PRESUME to know whow everyone cast their vote, voted?

Do you also PRESUME to know why those who didn't vote, didn't?

I've never heard so much guff in my life.

Leaving aside the stupid polls, HOW DO YOU KNOW???????

As for a poll on me, go ahead. Is the idea supposed to scare me? Like a give a flying fek what you, or anyone else thinks of me?

dpb

Where have I heard that line recently


Got it . Inigo Gilmore interviewing Richard Spencer

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Judging from the nutty overload amount of emoticons in the reply, I'd say it's a safe bet my last post hit pretty close to home. Job done.

dpb

He voted for sake of the young folk, didn't he !


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...556.html%3Famp

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

What job?
So your job is to try and rile me?

It failed, I'm laughing at you.:lol 1: :l ol1::lol 1: :l ol1:
PS: I like emoticons.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

ANOTHER poll.

How many polled? From where? What constitutes "Young People" as egards this poll?

I have one set of mates who voted remain...because they were afraid that if we left they would no longer be able to have a dog-passport.

Takes all sorts, eh?

Petem95

Going to be an interesting weekend in the Catalan region!

No doubt Juncker has been on the phone and is demanding Spain 'crush this outbreak of democracy', which is probably why they've been so heavy handed, sealing off polling stations and making strings of arrests.

What they're doing is just going to strengthen the resolve of the people - can't see this ending peacefully.

dpb

The Catalans are in fact calling the EU to mediate !

dpb

It probably sounds better to a brexiteer that junker is ordering troops on the street

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Seriously?