So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
#6782
Scooby Regular
If it’s tit for tat and it doesn’t blow we are going to be right up ****e street without a paddle
https://www.energylivenews.com/2021/...r-from-france/
https://www.energylivenews.com/2021/...r-from-france/
#6784
Scooby Senior
I drove just shy of 800KM from Southern Germany to Paris the other day, I can definitely say there was no shortage of trucks on that route!
#6786
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
And who lobbied and mandated policies that made us so reliant on it as a fuel/energy source?
Cook cook cook-ability that's the beauty of gas!
Did anyone tell Sid about all of this? (**** me I'm showing my age by remembering that )
Meanwhile in the EU they are arguing about USB chargers, honestly? Really? When you can't have anywhere standardised to plug in your electric car, but you're debating a technology that was mostly standardised over 25years ago (except Apple, of course ). That boat sailed along time ago...Time to deal with car charging and wireless chargers....or not at all and just let industry deal with it and leave the politician to potter on political stuff like trade agreements selling submarines etc.
Cook cook cook-ability that's the beauty of gas!
Did anyone tell Sid about all of this? (**** me I'm showing my age by remembering that )
Meanwhile in the EU they are arguing about USB chargers, honestly? Really? When you can't have anywhere standardised to plug in your electric car, but you're debating a technology that was mostly standardised over 25years ago (except Apple, of course ). That boat sailed along time ago...Time to deal with car charging and wireless chargers....or not at all and just let industry deal with it and leave the politician to potter on political stuff like trade agreements selling submarines etc.
Last edited by ALi-B; 23 September 2021 at 02:33 PM.
#6787
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https://news.sky.com/story/bp-priori...plies-12415175
We don't seem to have any issues over this side of the channel, maybe you can borrow some of our tanker drivers, oh yeah that's right you don't want or need them do you because it is British jobs for British people isn't it.
We don't seem to have any issues over this side of the channel, maybe you can borrow some of our tanker drivers, oh yeah that's right you don't want or need them do you because it is British jobs for British people isn't it.
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#6788
Scooby Senior
It's going well this Brexit thing isn't it!
"they need us more than we need them" - turns out that was true for the EU rather than the UK!
Well, I guess this is the Brexit they voted for, still the ardent Brexiteers on here seem to have gone a bit quiet recently, can't think why!
"they need us more than we need them" - turns out that was true for the EU rather than the UK!
Well, I guess this is the Brexit they voted for, still the ardent Brexiteers on here seem to have gone a bit quiet recently, can't think why!
#6789
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
https://news.sky.com/story/bp-priori...plies-12415175
We don't seem to have any issues over this side of the channel, maybe you can borrow some of our tanker drivers, oh yeah that's right you don't want or need them do you because it is British jobs for British people isn't it.
We don't seem to have any issues over this side of the channel, maybe you can borrow some of our tanker drivers, oh yeah that's right you don't want or need them do you because it is British jobs for British people isn't it.
https://www.ft.com/content/0c4f9876-...4-4abd2b58dde9
If your neck of the woods is ok I'm guessing Germany Tuk Er Jerrrbs!
Edit: Sorry forgot about the paywall, here's more sauce for your sarnie: https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/supply-c...659841.article
Last edited by ALi-B; 23 September 2021 at 04:33 PM.
#6790
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Oh, tanker drivers: They aren't normal HGV drivers. You can't employ a random Polak to tug around thousand of litres of explosive liquid. That's not a standard HGV license... Drivers need to be ADR qualified. As well as that further training and safety standards are needed before being allowed to drive, deliver and dispense fuel.
Now BP outsourced to Hoyer. Fine.
But, what did Hoyer do during the pandemic when nobody was buying fuel and had drivers sat idle: https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...over-job-cuts/
Yep, they were laid off!
Well what's the bets that those drivers didn't come back and they found work else where? Why not; I know a guy who drove delivery trucks at Birmingham airport...his employer laid him off during the pandemic, as did his colleagues. He got work elsewhere, then when lockdown ended his old employer phoned him up asking if he wanted to come back...nope told them to f**k off. As did many of his colleagues who actually got better paying jobs...now BHX has ground support staffing shortages. Well sucks to be them. I suspect the BP/Hoyer fiasco is similar.
Now BP outsourced to Hoyer. Fine.
But, what did Hoyer do during the pandemic when nobody was buying fuel and had drivers sat idle: https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...over-job-cuts/
Yep, they were laid off!
Well what's the bets that those drivers didn't come back and they found work else where? Why not; I know a guy who drove delivery trucks at Birmingham airport...his employer laid him off during the pandemic, as did his colleagues. He got work elsewhere, then when lockdown ended his old employer phoned him up asking if he wanted to come back...nope told them to f**k off. As did many of his colleagues who actually got better paying jobs...now BHX has ground support staffing shortages. Well sucks to be them. I suspect the BP/Hoyer fiasco is similar.
#6791
Scooby Senior
It's all well and good trying to blame the pandemic for driver shortages, and for sure the pandemic has put strains on all countries. It's true there is an underlying driver shortages throughout Europe which has been a growing problem since long before Brexit and fewer kids are attracted to the profession and the pandemic has put more strain on this.
But the pandemic has affected all countries in Europe equally, but the whole of the EU is coping with the problem, only the UK is seeing empty shelves and only the UK had left the EU and that is no coincidence.
The reality is that this is not just a shortage of UK based drivers. Pre Brexit, logistics companies operated without borders, with drivers bringing good into the UK from the EU, then returning to the EU loaded with UK goods. Now those drivers are left with returning with empty loads or faced with several hours hold up with customs checks. It's simply no longer profitable for the drivers to do runs to UK due to reduced revenues and/or increased journey times.
The issues are complex and have been brewing for a long time, but it's Brexit and Brexit alone which is turning the problem from a Europe wide general problem into a UK only acute problem.
The same is true for shortages in the hospitality industry, seasonal workers for farming and any other industry seeing general shortages of labour because domestic populations are not willing to do those jobs.
The gas supply issue is also a global issue, but prices in the EU are regulated with price caps, meaning consumer costs are still affordable and CO2 production hasn't stopped. The UK is dependent on gas supply from the EU and is no longer receiving the cost call benefits and having to buy gas at this country free market prices which have skyrocketed in comparison to the EU internal prices. Hence having to turn off gas power stations and turn on coal, energy suppliers going bust, serious concerns for winter supply and a complete halt to CO2 production. So ultimately the energy crisis is also only an acute problem in the UK because of Brexit.
But the pandemic has affected all countries in Europe equally, but the whole of the EU is coping with the problem, only the UK is seeing empty shelves and only the UK had left the EU and that is no coincidence.
The reality is that this is not just a shortage of UK based drivers. Pre Brexit, logistics companies operated without borders, with drivers bringing good into the UK from the EU, then returning to the EU loaded with UK goods. Now those drivers are left with returning with empty loads or faced with several hours hold up with customs checks. It's simply no longer profitable for the drivers to do runs to UK due to reduced revenues and/or increased journey times.
The issues are complex and have been brewing for a long time, but it's Brexit and Brexit alone which is turning the problem from a Europe wide general problem into a UK only acute problem.
The same is true for shortages in the hospitality industry, seasonal workers for farming and any other industry seeing general shortages of labour because domestic populations are not willing to do those jobs.
The gas supply issue is also a global issue, but prices in the EU are regulated with price caps, meaning consumer costs are still affordable and CO2 production hasn't stopped. The UK is dependent on gas supply from the EU and is no longer receiving the cost call benefits and having to buy gas at this country free market prices which have skyrocketed in comparison to the EU internal prices. Hence having to turn off gas power stations and turn on coal, energy suppliers going bust, serious concerns for winter supply and a complete halt to CO2 production. So ultimately the energy crisis is also only an acute problem in the UK because of Brexit.
#6792
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
I've always had severe concerns on the UK becoming over reliant on gas in a country now needing to use more electricity from fewer power stations with reduced fuel diversity. UK generators have continually dragged their feet in this and not helped by how our generators are owned with unwillingness to invest and "new money" investments coming from dubious sources (Thankfully the only thing I can give Teresa May credit for).
Meanwhile, is Poland going to pay its fine and carry on mining coal for its power stations? (80% coal). It'll be interesting how that pans out.
And when China flooded the Western market with below-cost solar panels, it was interesting who bought them up and is reaping the infrastructure benefits that killed competitive hope for western panel manufacturers. But I digress, can't blame 'em, just wished the Uk got in on it as well.
An eye opener on foreign drivers was when France closed its borders to drivers over Christmas. Any driver caught in that is going to be wary of being stuck at borders. Cargo with limited shelf life is a logistical nightmare as nobody has come up with anything workable that can prevent spoilage; That's the big bottleneck. However despite this I have not seen an empty supermarket shelf in the Midlands, so these news snippets of empty shelves are only representing the worst affected areas; Like Northern Ireland.
As our news is now promoting panic buying of petrol/diesel....Back to Hoyer/fuel delivery shortages:
https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Hoyer/reviews
Paints a nice picture of being a tanker driver.
Meanwhile, is Poland going to pay its fine and carry on mining coal for its power stations? (80% coal). It'll be interesting how that pans out.
And when China flooded the Western market with below-cost solar panels, it was interesting who bought them up and is reaping the infrastructure benefits that killed competitive hope for western panel manufacturers. But I digress, can't blame 'em, just wished the Uk got in on it as well.
An eye opener on foreign drivers was when France closed its borders to drivers over Christmas. Any driver caught in that is going to be wary of being stuck at borders. Cargo with limited shelf life is a logistical nightmare as nobody has come up with anything workable that can prevent spoilage; That's the big bottleneck. However despite this I have not seen an empty supermarket shelf in the Midlands, so these news snippets of empty shelves are only representing the worst affected areas; Like Northern Ireland.
As our news is now promoting panic buying of petrol/diesel....Back to Hoyer/fuel delivery shortages:
https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Hoyer/reviews
Paints a nice picture of being a tanker driver.
Last edited by ALi-B; 23 September 2021 at 11:50 PM.
#6793
Scooby Senior
I've always had severe concerns on the UK becoming over reliant on gas in a country now needing to use more electricity from fewer power stations with reduced fuel diversity. UK generators have continually dragged their feet in this and not helped by how our generators are owned with unwillingness to invest and "new money" investments coming from dubious sources (Thankfully the only thing I can give Teresa May credit for).
Meanwhile, is Poland going to pay its fine and carry on mining coal for its power stations? (80% coal). It'll be interesting how that pans out.
And when China flooded the Western market with below-cost solar panels, it was interesting who bought them up and is reaping the infrastructure benefits that killed competitive hope for western panel manufacturers. But I digress, can't blame 'em, just wished the Uk got in on it as well.
An eye opener on foreign drivers was when France closed its borders to drivers over Christmas. Any driver caught in that is going to be wary of being stuck at borders. Cargo with limited shelf life is a logistical nightmare as nobody has come up with anything workable that can prevent spoilage; That's the big bottleneck. However despite this I have not seen an empty supermarket shelf in the Midlands, so these news snippets of empty shelves are only representing the worst affected areas; Like Northern Ireland.
As our news is now promoting panic buying of petrol/diesel....Back to Hoyer/fuel delivery shortages:
https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Hoyer/reviews
Paints a nice picture of being a tanker driver.
Meanwhile, is Poland going to pay its fine and carry on mining coal for its power stations? (80% coal). It'll be interesting how that pans out.
And when China flooded the Western market with below-cost solar panels, it was interesting who bought them up and is reaping the infrastructure benefits that killed competitive hope for western panel manufacturers. But I digress, can't blame 'em, just wished the Uk got in on it as well.
An eye opener on foreign drivers was when France closed its borders to drivers over Christmas. Any driver caught in that is going to be wary of being stuck at borders. Cargo with limited shelf life is a logistical nightmare as nobody has come up with anything workable that can prevent spoilage; That's the big bottleneck. However despite this I have not seen an empty supermarket shelf in the Midlands, so these news snippets of empty shelves are only representing the worst affected areas; Like Northern Ireland.
As our news is now promoting panic buying of petrol/diesel....Back to Hoyer/fuel delivery shortages:
https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Hoyer/reviews
Paints a nice picture of being a tanker driver.
As for empty shelves it does seem to be a bit of a hit and miss situation very much varying across the country. Supermarkets are prioritising certain areas, no doubt priority going to most profitable stores. Certainly where my parents live just outside of Preston, they have seen the local stores seeing significant shortages while the bigger stores in the city are pretty well stocked. Just because you're not seeing empty shelves locally, doesn't mean that its not happening elsewhere and is for some people a serious problem. Obviously those with the deepest pockets will see the least problems as companies are throwing money at the problem with transport costs increasing. This of course leads to price inflation to the end consumer, so expect bills to rise significantly in the coming months.
#6794
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
I stand corrected. Semantics, so I have to point out earlier you said:
UK implies the entire country not parts of it. Now you say:
That's plausible. Given the combination of current events.
Supermarkets are prioritising certain areas, no doubt priority going to most profitable.
Certainly, not just profitable but logistically possible; Prioritising essentials and splitting spoilable items onto separate deliveries to avoid wastage. Issues with Marks and Spencer in Northern Ireland was due to splitting of deliveries to avoid perishing of items being held up during the sea crossing.
As an aside, whilst I'm in Spain I have found it impossible to get longlife (self bake) bread from Aldi (Spanish chains like Consum and Mercadona never sold it). Typical Spanish fresh baked bread goes stale in less than 24hours and sliced Bimbo bread is crap. The self bake is only sold by Aldi Spain and is imported (from France IIRC the labelling) and was a fast seller as German and French expats/holidaymakers love it), but since the pandemic I haven't even seen anywhere in the four stores I visited.
Bit weird really, not had an explanation from staff as to why so can only either guess supply chain issues and/or a push to support its instore "bakery" that they installed a few years ago (which mostly sells underdone, burnt or stale bread...they'll put black croissants on the shelf so clearly don't GaF ), the self bake is not spoilable as it has a 3month shelf life No problem finding English cheddar though. 🤷♂️
only the UK is seeing empty shelves
UK implies the entire country not parts of it. Now you say:
As for empty shelves it does seem to be a bit of a hit and miss situation very much varying across the country.
Supermarkets are prioritising certain areas, no doubt priority going to most profitable.
As an aside, whilst I'm in Spain I have found it impossible to get longlife (self bake) bread from Aldi (Spanish chains like Consum and Mercadona never sold it). Typical Spanish fresh baked bread goes stale in less than 24hours and sliced Bimbo bread is crap. The self bake is only sold by Aldi Spain and is imported (from France IIRC the labelling) and was a fast seller as German and French expats/holidaymakers love it), but since the pandemic I haven't even seen anywhere in the four stores I visited.
Bit weird really, not had an explanation from staff as to why so can only either guess supply chain issues and/or a push to support its instore "bakery" that they installed a few years ago (which mostly sells underdone, burnt or stale bread...they'll put black croissants on the shelf so clearly don't GaF ), the self bake is not spoilable as it has a 3month shelf life No problem finding English cheddar though. 🤷♂️
#6795
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European drivers say they won't come to the UK on temporary visas
The government is hoping that issuing thousands of three-month visas to foreign lorry drivers could help stem the fuel crisis.
But the drivers themselves don't seem overly keen on the visas on offer.
Polish lorry driver Jakub Borzykowski told ITV: "I don't want to work on a temporary visa because I think of the future.
"If the government offers a 12-month visa, I could plan for my life, but three months is not an option.
"I'd collect about £12,000 for three months. What next?"
Meanwhile, Netherlands-based trade unionist Edwin Atema put it a lot more bluntly on BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The EU workers we speak to will not go to the UK for a short-term visa to help the UK. out of the s*** they created themselves."
The government is hoping that issuing thousands of three-month visas to foreign lorry drivers could help stem the fuel crisis.
But the drivers themselves don't seem overly keen on the visas on offer.
Polish lorry driver Jakub Borzykowski told ITV: "I don't want to work on a temporary visa because I think of the future.
"If the government offers a 12-month visa, I could plan for my life, but three months is not an option.
"I'd collect about £12,000 for three months. What next?"
Meanwhile, Netherlands-based trade unionist Edwin Atema put it a lot more bluntly on BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The EU workers we speak to will not go to the UK for a short-term visa to help the UK. out of the s*** they created themselves."
#6802
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
And of course payment...who will the army send the bill to? Their services will not come for free so ultimately that will be the main stalling factor as managers, politicians and accountants argue the toss.
#6803
Scooby Senior
Probably. They'll have drivers trained to transport munitions as well as tankers, but not all will be trained for everything, but probably will be allowed to drive on the road. Refineries and forecourts however may not allow them to fill or dispense without specific training inline with the company's guidelines. So it may need either training/induction courses or a suitable employee to tag along or swap over at the depots. Unless rules are temporarily waived.
And of course payment...who will the army send the bill to? Their services will not come for free so ultimately that will be the main stalling factor as managers, politicians and accountants argue the toss.
And of course payment...who will the army send the bill to? Their services will not come for free so ultimately that will be the main stalling factor as managers, politicians and accountants argue the toss.
Not a lot of sympathy coming out of the EU, hardly surprising really! The probable future German chancellor stated yesterday that the UK has chosen a path to do things on its own (Brexit) rather than get help from its neighbours, so its up to them to fix it on their own! So, in other words, this is the Brexit they voted for!
#6805
Scooby Senior
After the Brexit deal the £ recovered slightly against the € as the market had predicted no deal. There was some gains in January as there was no sudden crash, but since then the £ has been pretty stagnant and way, way, below the referendum level. Were already seeing quite high levels of inflation due to delivery shortages and with wage rises for HGV drivers thats going to push up costs and drive inflation even further. This winter will no doubt see a lot of pressure for salary rises to counter the inflation putting more and more inflationary pressure on the market. High inflation will no doubt see the value of the £ falling on the markets over the coming months.
Probably a good idea to book your summer holidays abroad now before the £ doesn't go as far next year!
#6807
Scooby Senior
So, today is the day that Brexit should have been completely done with the introduction of full border controls on goods arriving from the EU into the UK, which had been pushed back already several times already. (The EU managed to do this on time!)
This deadline has now been pushed back until 1 Jan 2022, presumably because the government know that further border control will only worsen the current supply chain issues.
There is one significant change being introduced today. EU citizens will no longer be able to travel to the UK using just their national ID cards and will instead require a full passport to enter the UK.
I know quite a few Germans who don't hold a valid passport simply because they've never traveled anywhere where they need one. Its actually quite uncommon within EU countries with national ID cards to hold a passport as most people only holiday or travel on business within the EU and they see no need to pay often significant fees for a document they don't need. Similarly, people who have held a passport often let it expire and will only renew when they intend to travel outside the EU again. Its only in countries like the UK that don't have a national ID cards that most people hold a passport!
My guess is a significant number of EU truckers probably don't actually hold a passport, so that could well add another hurdle to getting EU trucks to make deliveries to the UK and thus further straining the supply chains!
I wonder if those border controls will really come in on 1st Jan, or will they be pushed back even further? I've seen one report that questioned if the controls would ever be introduces! Either way, we're not taking back control of our borders any time soon!
This deadline has now been pushed back until 1 Jan 2022, presumably because the government know that further border control will only worsen the current supply chain issues.
There is one significant change being introduced today. EU citizens will no longer be able to travel to the UK using just their national ID cards and will instead require a full passport to enter the UK.
I know quite a few Germans who don't hold a valid passport simply because they've never traveled anywhere where they need one. Its actually quite uncommon within EU countries with national ID cards to hold a passport as most people only holiday or travel on business within the EU and they see no need to pay often significant fees for a document they don't need. Similarly, people who have held a passport often let it expire and will only renew when they intend to travel outside the EU again. Its only in countries like the UK that don't have a national ID cards that most people hold a passport!
My guess is a significant number of EU truckers probably don't actually hold a passport, so that could well add another hurdle to getting EU trucks to make deliveries to the UK and thus further straining the supply chains!
I wonder if those border controls will really come in on 1st Jan, or will they be pushed back even further? I've seen one report that questioned if the controls would ever be introduces! Either way, we're not taking back control of our borders any time soon!
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#6808
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There is one significant change being introduced today. EU citizens will no longer be able to travel to the UK using just their national ID cards and will instead require a full passport to enter the UK.
I wonder if those border controls will really come in on 1st Jan, or will they be pushed back even further? I've seen one report that questioned if the controls would ever be introduces! Either way, we're not taking back control of our borders any time soon!
I wonder if those border controls will really come in on 1st Jan, or will they be pushed back even further? I've seen one report that questioned if the controls would ever be introduces! Either way, we're not taking back control of our borders any time soon!
Good job I have 2 passports and an ID card then init like
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#6810
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I must admit I did have to queue for petrol on Thursday evening but only because the bint in the car in front did her makeup in the mirror before getting out of the car to fil it up and then went shopping while I sat behind her car.