So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
23 May 2019, 04:06 PM
#4803
Scooby Senior
Raises an interesting point, why is it that elections in the UK are always on a Thursday? In Germany they are always on a Sunday! I never really got why they always have to be on the same weekday!
23 May 2019, 04:46 PM
#4804
The reason why British General Elections are held on Thursdays is because this day of the week was, in most cases, the traditional market day. As a result of this, most people would be in town and, therefore, be able to vote in addition to purchasing their wares.
23 May 2019, 07:38 PM
#4806
Scooby Regular
Yes Thursday is a traditional market day and also took this from the web,
Since 1918 a General Election has always been on a Thursday. The reason for choosing Thursday, it is said, was as follows. On Fridays the voters were paid their wages and if they went for a drink in a public house they would be subject to pressure from the Conservative brewing interests, while on Sundays they would be subject to influence by Free Church ministers who were generally Liberal in persuasion.
Since 1918 a General Election has always been on a Thursday. The reason for choosing Thursday, it is said, was as follows. On Fridays the voters were paid their wages and if they went for a drink in a public house they would be subject to pressure from the Conservative brewing interests, while on Sundays they would be subject to influence by Free Church ministers who were generally Liberal in persuasion.
24 May 2019, 10:50 AM
#4810
Scooby Senior
24 May 2019, 10:52 AM
#4812
If Parliament has voted to refuse to accept no deal, then any leader cannot allow that to happen without being found in contempt of Parliament, and thus breaking the law. Is that correct? If so, are the only choices now a deal or revoke?
24 May 2019, 11:47 AM
#4813
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: riding the crest of a wave ...
Posts: 46,493
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12 Posts
Christ knows
Thought it sound like there only needs to be minor tweeks....?
No doubt Boris et al belives he can go back to brussels and start again
Shuould imgine must be god allmighty relief for mrs may to get shot this rabble
Thought it sound like there only needs to be minor tweeks....?
No doubt Boris et al belives he can go back to brussels and start again
Shuould imgine must be god allmighty relief for mrs may to get shot this rabble
Last edited by dpb; 24 May 2019 at 11:48 AM.
24 May 2019, 12:39 PM
#4814
Scooby Senior
I suspect Boris or whoever else takes over will hit the ground with a huge bump when they realise the EU are not going to budge on the Irish backstop!
For the EU, no deal is better than a bad deal
28 May 2019, 08:26 AM
#4818
36.7% turnout
One of the few occasions I hate being right!Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
28 May 2019, 09:09 AM
#4819
36.7% turnout One of the few occasions I hate being right!
Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
One of the few occasions I hate being right!Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
28 May 2019, 09:42 AM
#4820
Scooby Senior
36.7% turnout One of the few occasions I hate being right!
Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
One of the few occasions I hate being right!Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
Change UK didn't have any really well known personalities that were able to gain anywhere near as much time that Farage can get. The Lib Dems did a very good job of trying to focus the remain vote which also cost Change UK but the remain vote was still quite fragmented. The Brexit party had no real Leave competition, the Conservatives didn't even try to compete and nobody really knows what Labours position on Brexit is and without Farage as front-man UKIP is just left with the bunch of far right extremists, so for leavers there was only really one choice!
28 May 2019, 11:38 AM
#4821
36.7% turnout One of the few occasions I hate being right!
Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
One of the few occasions I hate being right!Although I do believe there is a difference between bothering to vote and refusing to vote. I dare say half of that 66.3% refused on the basis they are sick of politicians in general as well of Westminster-centric ideologies, which I’m inclined to agree...Change UK vs Brexit party results could be reflective of this...both are new yet one gained significantly whilst the other performed poorly.
28 May 2019, 12:48 PM
#4825
Scooby Senior
"Politics is broken" is a great buzz-word but is pretty meaningless. Actually, politics is working pretty well because it has the checks and balances that prevent a government forcing through unpopular legislation. The Brexit issue is so complex and there are so many differing opinions, both in parliament and in the public, that it is almost impossible to find a consensus without compromise. So, given that nobody seems to be willing to compromise, then politics is doing is job and preventing legislation which reflects the will of the people. Its important on the Brexit decision, that the will of the people is not the 52% or the 48%, but the 100%, so a balanced solution has to be found. In our FPTP political system, we are used to majority governments who only have to find compromise within their own party and not across the political divide, so consensus is usually quite easy to find. Brexit however is a pretty unique political question that transcends the traditional political divide - there are both left and right leaning people who support both the Brexit and remain sides, so the two major parties are finding major splits within the parties themselves and are unable to find a compromise which will get a majority support within their parties. For Labour, this isn't such a big issue as they not in government, but for the conservatives, its pulling their party to pieces and that situation is reflected in both the Euro and local elections where Labours split and indecisiveness has cost them some votes, but the Tory split has cost them big time and the voters have turned to the parties who do have a unified position, such as the Lib Dems, Greens and Brexit party. In the case where a government cannot find consensus on an issue within its own party, then the only option is to seek cross party support, which is something quite alien to the British political system and of course seeking compromise with the opposition may risk party members resigning the whip and a government losing its majority in parliament. If we had a proportional representation system where cross party compromise is more normal, then it may have been possible to find a political solution to the Brexit question although even that is not guaranteed as the issue is so divisive. So, until parliament is willing to accept that Brexit is an issue which is much bigger than party politics and is willing to find a cross party compromise, then politics will continue to do its job and prevent an unpopular legislation being delivered.
If we want to look for something broken, then maybe we need to shine the light on the media which does too little fact checking, over sensationalises issues and over simplifies complex issues into meaningless soundbites like "politics is broken"!
28 May 2019, 01:45 PM
#4826
Why would you think this though, knowing that barely 1 in 3 people have ever bothered to vote in any Euro elections before this? I'll give you maybe 5% to 10% of that 66.3% making a conscious decision not to vote, at a push, but quite honestly I think the rest just CBAed and went down the pub instead.
Plus I hear this A LOT!....
Sadly the broken part is people not voting....
http://www.votenone.org.uk/real-election-results.html
Last edited by ALi-B; 28 May 2019 at 01:47 PM.
28 May 2019, 03:31 PM
#4828
Scooby Regular
I have been in DE 30 years , I'm probably the only one here who is getting a good deal out of this mess.
If the Politicians can just string it out for another couple of months till I have finished the sale of my German home,
it will allow me enough time to move my belongings back over the Channel and the Hamoaze before pulling up the customs drawbridge
then as they say here , "my sheep are in the dry".
I might even get to see Arsenal play live again, but sadly no longer from the old North Bank or with Chestnuts with my Dad in Gillespie road
both are long gone, but I remember my last home game, Aston Villa at home 5-0 and David Platt was in goal.
George Graham was in charge but Arsenal were still an attacking side.
If the Politicians can just string it out for another couple of months till I have finished the sale of my German home,
it will allow me enough time to move my belongings back over the Channel and the Hamoaze before pulling up the customs drawbridge
then as they say here , "my sheep are in the dry".
I might even get to see Arsenal play live again, but sadly no longer from the old North Bank or with Chestnuts with my Dad in Gillespie road
both are long gone, but I remember my last home game, Aston Villa at home 5-0 and David Platt was in goal.
28 May 2019, 06:05 PM
#4829
Broken no, divided yes!
"Politics is broken" is a great buzz-word but is pretty meaningless. Actually, politics is working pretty well because it has the checks and balances that prevent a government forcing through unpopular legislation. The Brexit issue is so complex and there are so many differing opinions, both in parliament and in the public, that it is almost impossible to find a consensus without compromise. So, given that nobody seems to be willing to compromise, then politics is doing is job and preventing legislation which reflects the will of the people. Its important on the Brexit decision, that the will of the people is not the 52% or the 48%, but the 100%, so a balanced solution has to be found. In our FPTP political system, we are used to majority governments who only have to find compromise within their own party and not across the political divide, so consensus is usually quite easy to find. Brexit however is a pretty unique political question that transcends the traditional political divide - there are both left and right leaning people who support both the Brexit and remain sides, so the two major parties are finding major splits within the parties themselves and are unable to find a compromise which will get a majority support within their parties. For Labour, this isn't such a big issue as they not in government, but for the conservatives, its pulling their party to pieces and that situation is reflected in both the Euro and local elections where Labours split and indecisiveness has cost them some votes, but the Tory split has cost them big time and the voters have turned to the parties who do have a unified position, such as the Lib Dems, Greens and Brexit party. In the case where a government cannot find consensus on an issue within its own party, then the only option is to seek cross party support, which is something quite alien to the British political system and of course seeking compromise with the opposition may risk party members resigning the whip and a government losing its majority in parliament. If we had a proportional representation system where cross party compromise is more normal, then it may have been possible to find a political solution to the Brexit question although even that is not guaranteed as the issue is so divisive. So, until parliament is willing to accept that Brexit is an issue which is much bigger than party politics and is willing to find a cross party compromise, then politics will continue to do its job and prevent an unpopular legislation being delivered.
If we want to look for something broken, then maybe we need to shine the light on the media which does too little fact checking, over sensationalises issues and over simplifies complex issues into meaningless soundbites like "politics is broken"!
"Politics is broken" is a great buzz-word but is pretty meaningless. Actually, politics is working pretty well because it has the checks and balances that prevent a government forcing through unpopular legislation. The Brexit issue is so complex and there are so many differing opinions, both in parliament and in the public, that it is almost impossible to find a consensus without compromise. So, given that nobody seems to be willing to compromise, then politics is doing is job and preventing legislation which reflects the will of the people. Its important on the Brexit decision, that the will of the people is not the 52% or the 48%, but the 100%, so a balanced solution has to be found. In our FPTP political system, we are used to majority governments who only have to find compromise within their own party and not across the political divide, so consensus is usually quite easy to find. Brexit however is a pretty unique political question that transcends the traditional political divide - there are both left and right leaning people who support both the Brexit and remain sides, so the two major parties are finding major splits within the parties themselves and are unable to find a compromise which will get a majority support within their parties. For Labour, this isn't such a big issue as they not in government, but for the conservatives, its pulling their party to pieces and that situation is reflected in both the Euro and local elections where Labours split and indecisiveness has cost them some votes, but the Tory split has cost them big time and the voters have turned to the parties who do have a unified position, such as the Lib Dems, Greens and Brexit party. In the case where a government cannot find consensus on an issue within its own party, then the only option is to seek cross party support, which is something quite alien to the British political system and of course seeking compromise with the opposition may risk party members resigning the whip and a government losing its majority in parliament. If we had a proportional representation system where cross party compromise is more normal, then it may have been possible to find a political solution to the Brexit question although even that is not guaranteed as the issue is so divisive. So, until parliament is willing to accept that Brexit is an issue which is much bigger than party politics and is willing to find a cross party compromise, then politics will continue to do its job and prevent an unpopular legislation being delivered.
If we want to look for something broken, then maybe we need to shine the light on the media which does too little fact checking, over sensationalises issues and over simplifies complex issues into meaningless soundbites like "politics is broken"!
I would agree on your later point about cross-party consensus being such an alien concept in Westminster politics, but this only goes to highlight how outdated and inadequate the FPTP system is now in the 21st Century, particularly when in almost every other sphere of human activity it's possible to register one's opinion on a subject on an individual, person by person basis.
29 May 2019, 03:36 PM
#4830
Scooby Senior
This is an interesting case and could set a precedent for holding people in public office to account for what they say!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48445430
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48445430