BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

Yes, some of my friends and their families living outside the UK are currently going through this and unsure about their future.

dpb

Proletariat brexiter not intrested goin there anyway - cos theyre English not European !

toffs dont care anyway cos they can afford go anywhere on their hols

Not heard from Andy much lately....

unless hes on toadface's jarrow crusade

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I replaced mine in December online and it was painless, quick and I received my new passport in Germany in 10 days.
Can't believe how much they cost now though.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Mr Fuji

We went to Prague last week, and my daughter's passport expires in April, no one blinked an eye. You can travel in the EU up to the day it expires. I'm not saying that people won't question it, but you can do it.

BMWhere?

I flew from Switzerland to Spain last year and forgot my passport. They let me fly using my driving license as ID. I've done a number of business trips back to the UK with German colleagues, they only ever travel with their national ID card, no passport required.

To travel within the EU and Schengen area, you don't need a passport at all, you only need a valid ID card.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Mr Fuji

Same airline each time? We flew with Easyjet.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Mr Fuji

And don't forget that even the most optimistic forecasts from Brexiteers have a short term down term in the economy, plus the exodus of EU nationals who provide alot of manpower power for the NHS, its future is bleak indeed.

It's almost as if the public were lied to........

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

depends if its a hard brexit theres 40 billion to play with lol

were screwed either way, were paying through the nose and facing all the **** in the eu, it wont change one bit coming out, not that i believe we will, they will extend then second referendum and we will roll over like the good doggies we are

Mr Fuji

Well, £40 billion is about a third of this year's NHS budget, and that's a much smaller amount than the expected drop in the economy, so not really any better!

I'm not sure how, if a second referendum delivered a remain result, that would be rolling over? It would be delivering 'the will of the people', it's called democracy

dpb

I think iv worked it out now . Brexiters believe theyre heroes on the basis that the smaller Eu economies will be better off once weve given the finger to brussels /shipped out/ sacrificed our future economy

noble when you think about it

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

having a second vote isnt democracy though is it lol we've already voted...

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

the nhs is under strain in or out. i know my local hospital is bursting

Mr Fuji

So, if we vote in a government that promises in it's election manifesto to implement something, and that is the main thing they got into power on, and in the next election they have not yet implemented it, and they are voted out, is that not democracy? Electorates are not bound to decisions without reprieve, that is how democracy works.

Forcing the people into this, based on the information they had, and what they know no, is akin to saying "I want to move house because I don't like the neighbours, and I think that there are better schools somewhere else", and then when you do the survey you find that where you are going is a ****hole, the house is built over on old mine, but being forced to move anyway. If however, you then think it's still worth moving, then you have that choice. That's what a second referendum means.

dpb

BMWhere?

In a democracy you can change your mind.

We had a referendum to join the EU! Then we had a referendum to leave, so we already had a second referendum and changed our minds! So by your definition, the referendum to leave is undemocratic because the people already voted to join! What is the required time limit between referendums so that one is democratic and one is undemocratic?

If the available information has changed or the public opinion has changed, then its democratic to allow the people another say, regardless of how long ago the last referendum was.

The same is true for the Scotish independence referendum. They voted to remain based on the UK being in the EU. If the UK now leaves the EU, this changes the balance of the argument in Scotland and they should be able to take a new vote on independence. I'm not Scottish and don't want Scottish independence, but I still believe they should have the right to chose based on the constitutional changes to the UK because of Brexit.

To be honest though, I'm not sure another referendum will change anything. There is certainly a huge risk that leave would still win. Even if remain were to win a second referendum, the margin is still likely to be narrow and the country would remain split and the argument would no doubt continue and there would be pressure for yet another referendum.

Fundamentally, until the government starts to address the real issues in the UK why people voted to leave - lack of affordable housing, NHS is a mess, schools are overcrowded, transport infrastructure is a mess, rising crime etc. All of which, immigration (or more specifically, population growth) only increases the problems. - then the public will remain disillusioned with the politics and susceptible to populists and the right wing, such as UKIP, Britain First or Tommy Robinson, whose nationalistic, anti-immigration narrative seems the perfect quick fix for all our problems.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

I get all that but the people asking for the second vote are the ones that lost.

We dont know what coming out of the eu will be like, no one can say.

I totslly belive where people live has a massive impact on this .i live in rochdale, its a **** hole, every dreg of nationality lives here, its a horrible place . I cant afford to move from the area, i have yo deal with it .now if i lived in a swanky part of cheshire id of prob voted remain as i dont get that **** on my doorstep

People voted for what effected them, be that right or wrong .both sides had ample time to set out there stalls.

And if the second referendum gives another leave vote .would we have a third??

I apologize for not being as educated and elequent as some on here im just a thick northern.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

And you certainly cant trust the government or the banks to be pushing us through, they dont give a toss about us . Past experiences have shown that

dpb

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Its not going to change, the main problem is theres no intergrstion. Theres pockets of people. Sadly no on mingles

dpb

Hmm Well this is a different topic again , is it not ?

BMWhere?

I'm also northern, being Northern doesn't mean you're thick! I know Rochdale, and I agree it's a ****hole, as are many other industrialised towns and cities across the country that have been neglected since the collapse of British industry (thanks Maggie!).
The cause of the problems in places like Rochdale though is nothing to do with membership of the EU or freedom of movement, but domestic policy for low taxation and lack of funding in public services. The likes of Farage backed up with scandal loving right wing media have then sold you that the EU is a bad thing and leaving will solve all your problems, which simply isn't true. People like Farage are already rich and will no doubt get richer from Brexit and thats why they want it. They don't care about you or what's best for the country, they only care about lining their own pockets!

Tell me, how are all the people in Rochdale going to feel in 10 years time, when its still a ****hole and even more people are out of work and Farage and Johnson are supping campaign and laughing at all the oiks that supported them?

Mr Fuji

But yet you voted for a situation where the Government will be unfettered by any temperance from the EU on many things, and the banks would also no longer be bound by the EU, so free to behave in any way they like (within reason, I accept).

It seems to me that voting Leave was, for many people, a protest against our government more than anything else, yet they have delivered themselves into a worse situation at the hands of the people they despise!

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

Just been announced that the agreed changes May has been negotiating are not considered legally binding, therefore all of these last minute negotiations mean absolutely **** and we are back to square one again with no deal the government will vote for or agree on.

Can't see anything but a no deal brexit happening now realistically.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Wales as similar issues if not worse. The Welsh Assembly Government championed the fact that wages in Wales can be as much as 30% lower than the rest of the UK in Tweets - utter dead heads. The irony is that Labour have a strong foothold in Wales, have the least number of migrants, receive the largest per capita EU handouts on the mainland (NI gets more) but massively still voted out.

Maggie may have been a Grim Reaper, it does not get away from the fact that the subsequent Labour did not really address the issues or make any difference to any of the post industrial areas around the UK and became south centric.

Do any of us or anyone know what the UK will look like in 10 years, really, do we? I would suggest no.

Mr Fuji

I think there will be an extension, but after that who knows? Will it just be delaying the inevitable? Will it be a very soft leave? Interesting times

BMWhere?

No deal is extremely unlikely!
After the EGs advice, it's almost certain that parliament will now reject the agreement tonight by a large margin and May's deal will be dead.
That means tomorrow there will be a vote on no deal which will certainly also be rejected by a large margin, so no deal will be finally off the table.
So that means on Thursday, there will be a vote to extend article 50 which will almost certainly be passed.

The EU won't accept an extension to article 50 unless there is some profound change in direction from the UK which would warrant opening up the debate again. My guess is May will announce a general election as her position is now untenable and the EU will accept an extension. If the EU will not accept an extension, then it is very likely that parliament will be forced to withdraw article 50 and go to the polls again.