SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

And they're not even going to cost that much more. The WTO tariff on cars is 9.8%. German cars usually list at premium prices so there's more scope for cutting back on margins.
Also, German manufacturers have massive finance arms (VAG FS, anyone?) that can offer finance so cheap you can park a £50k German on your drive for less outlay than a £40k Jag Land Rover.
There's no leverage here at all.

trails

iTrader: (41)

It's another trite argument trotted out regularly that has been debunked many times.

Naivety displayed by so many is scary, and more evidence that Cameron is one of the biggest w@nkers in recent history for allowing the great unwashed to vote on this issue.

SouthWalesSam

iTrader: (1)

You can't do that. It's against WTO rules. You'd have to put the same tax on a Kia too.

dpb

80% less investment in our car industry this last year ?

no doubt , Project Fear !!

Mr Fuji

This is just utter delusion. Even if you say ok, Golf drivers might switch to a Kia Rio, people who buy Mercs, big Audis, 5, 6 or 7 series BMWs, Porsches or Maybachs are not! And we are not going to slap a tax like that on German cars, as the UE would just slap whatever they saw fit on stuff we export to them. We cannot win a trade war with the EU!

Le me guess, you have a vested interest in Kias

You mentioned that this would be the same for other products. Let me ask you, where are the British going to get champagne? Not a major player by any means, but it does illustrate how daft you are being.

Mr Fuji

"Yes sir, the Kia Picante now costs 50% more than it did when we were in the EU..... Don't shout at me sir, it's the rules. Aren't you happy with all the control you have taken back? No? There's no pleasing some people......If you nip over to Dane VW, they may be able to do you a good deal on a Golf"

BMWhere?

Yes, we are in a position to bargain! Yes it is all about money! And yes they want our money!

But...

They are also in a position to bargain! For us it is also all about money (by us, I mean the government, not the public, for the public its all about immigration!). And we also want their money!

So now you have two sides bargaining with each other and it comes down to who holds the better cards? The sad thing about Brexit, is there isn't a winning side, both sides are going to lose, the only question is which side has the most to lose.

There is nothing major that the UK currently provides to the EU in goods or services that couldn't be sourced from elsewhere in the EU. There are many things that the UK imports which are currently not available directly in the UK. Many of the large companies in the UK are a result of foreign (non-EU) investment in the UK as a means to gain access to the EU market. If the UK leaves the EU with no free-trade deal, then the reason for those companies being in the UK is gone and they will relocate - Sony and Panasonic have already moved to Holland for exactly this reason.

So on the balance, the EU holds the better cards! They are still going to lose, but they are not going to lose as much as the UK will! So when it comes to bargaining, who do you think is going to blink first? If the UK wants to throw itself of a cliff, then they EU actually has more to gain in the long run with more companies deserting the UK and setting up elsewhere in the EU! The thing is, the EU can also see our cards, so they have absolutely no need to bend over for us!

Sure, when it comes to car sales or Prosecco/Champagne, or whatever, there may be a drop in sales to the UK, but it won't be a drop to zero. There will be some areas where they UK will import from other countries instead of the EU, but either way, the cost to UK consumers will be higher, otherwise we'd be buying from those countries now. For luxury items like BMWs they are already much more expensive than Kia's, so if the price goes up by a couple of grand for the BMW, most buyers would just accept it because they were never buying on price in the first place. If you want to talk about the car market, its not the German market that will be worried, it is more the likes of Fiat or Renault, where the customers are much more focused on price - they are the ones that will lose out to Kia! Germany will be laughing all the way to the bank - the bank which is now regulated in Germany instead of the UK!

dpb

And just how large multinational is Renault / Nisssan/Mitsubishi anyway - they could drop prices

BMWhere?

They also sell a fraction of the number of cars to the UK compared to the Germans and also accounts for less of their business.

The simple fact is, nobody, anywhere, buys a German car because they are the cheapest option! People buy German cars because of quality and status and Brexit is not going to change that which is why the Brexiteer argument is completely flawed!

The EU has looked very closely at the effects of Brexit, they've done their own calculations and they know who has more to lose! This notion that we have some sort of great bargaining power that the EU will have to bow down to is just complete garbage. They've already given as much as is worth giving in the deal already.

They don't want us to leave, but they are not punishing us, they are simply looking for a solution which does the least damage to them. If they were to give more, it would mean a greater loss for them and they are simply not going to do that!

trails

iTrader: (41)

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Maybe we could licence our language, after all it is ours and if anyone wants to use it the have to pay a licence fee, that should rake in a fair few quid

Mr Fuji

Hang on, lads, it's ok, no deal will be fine, look..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47071874

dpb

dpb

BMWhere?

Yep, she's going to get here deal through unchanged by paying off the labour MPs with cash for their constituencies!
Quite ironic given those constituencies voted for Brexit because of the problems caused by the lack of funding!

Mr Fuji

Oh this is class

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

This sounds exactly like one of my colleagues. I hear this same thing word for word every day regardless of what I put to him. He still has total belief that we are the single biggest country in the world and command bargaining and THEY need us more than we need them. Every day I get this ****.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

This is pretty good news.

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-agrees...rexit-11624541

BMWhere?

"It doesn't matter about the maths!"

dpb

We shall fight on the beaches.... etc etc

trails

iTrader: (41)

Numbers=overrated

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

its tongue in chek but you get what im hinting at, neither side can put hurrensdous taxes on us because of things put in place, thats just scaremongering

but i **** you not last yr suzuki had a parts price increase of 40% across the board, thats true.

jake

BMWhere?

It depends on what taxes the UK sets. Under WTO rules, you can't set tariffs country by country, so we can't set one rate for the EU and another rate for the US and so on, so its not possible to punish a country directly by raising taxes. The current trade wars between the US and China are somewhat mis-reported for simplification - the US can't increase duties for China, but rather they look at what they import mostly from China with minimum impact on other countries to target trade sanctions on China, although the reality is everyone is affected, just China more than the others. So if the EU wants to target China, the US or Russia with trade sanctions in the future, there is a chance we will also get hit by them.

We set the import tariffs for the UK, every other country sets their own import tariffs which would be applicable for UK exports and we have no control about. You can reduce or remove tariffs for individual countries by making a trade agreement or trade deal with individual countries which is then registered under the WTO, but then you cannot change tariffs under the trade agreement without renegotiating the trade arrangement or pulling out of the agreement - so essentially, once you make a trade deal with another country, then you loose control of your trade rules with that country.

Another worrying factor is what we might have to give up in any trade deals. For example, a trade deal with the US would almost certainly mean we have to lower our food standards to allow chlorine washed chicken, beef fed with growth hormones, and GM crops, all currently banned under EU rules. If we lower our standards for chicken, beef, or grains, to get a deal with the US, then it would invalidate any deal with the EU for those products. For example, by letting the US sell us their beef with growth hormones, we would essentially be banned from selling our beef (with or without growth hormones) to the EU.

So essentially, we will take back control from the EU then give up control with every trade deal we make!

As for the 40% increase in parts from Japan, that will have a lot to do with the weak Pound combined with a strong Yen at the moment.

Speaking of Japan and trade deals, today is the day that the EU/Japan trade deal comes into effect with trade barriers removed on 97% of EU exports to Japan. Japan has to wait a while to gain access to the EU market though as the EU as the larger economy in the trade deal was able to gain the export benefits before ceding any import losses. Of course the UK will no longer be party to the trade deal in a couple of months, we will have to start from scratch with a much smaller economy to bargain with!

Mr Fuji

I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Of course no one will put horrendous taxes on, the point it is that it will be more expensive. And for what?

As for Suzuki, so what? A manufacturer increased its prices by a large amount, what has that go to do with the EU, WTO, trade in general?

silver-sub

On a lighter note this made me chuckle.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/ur...ister-1.479364

dpb

Sitting there with Rossane barr , what an irony !

no sense humour thats the trouble

no realsim eithehr

hodgy0_2

LOL, they really are thick as pig****

You would have thought after 40 years these tools could name 1 wto rule

And they still spout the same old same old flat earth nonsense - arnt they embarrassed, don't they realise they are being laughed at and mocked - the world over

Clearly they have zero self respect

dpb

Mauritania seems to be the only country in the world trading under WTO alone

And coming shortly , Us


What can possibly go wrong

JackClark

BMWhere?

This is the whole problem. Investment in the UK has pretty much stopped. Theresa May did a secret deal with Nissan in 2016, but it seems now they're going back on the deal because there is too much uncertainty.

Project fear is starting to get real!