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EU Referendum
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,600
Likes: 29
From: UK
Blair is about as pro EU as you can get and therefore the worst possible person to do a deal as he will bend over and take everything the EU throws at him. It's probably Juncker who has asked him to put his name forward 
Scooby Senior
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,826
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From: North Wales
Blair might bend over, or, he might be what we need, someone the EU likes and is listened to. Whoever it is, whatever they want, it's a mess, that's for sure!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
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From: Home
Professor Michael Dougan, the leading EU lawyer whose criticism of the referendum campaign’s “industrial dishonesty” went viral, has assessed the UK’s position following the vote to leave the EU.
He says that this is now a “political crisis that needs a political solution” and that the Government has a “constitutional responsibility to protect the national interest”, with Parliament the ultimate decision-maker on whether the UK follows through and leaves the European Union.
Disclosure statement:
Professor Dougan is an employee of the University of Liverpool. He does not work for, undertake paid consultancy for, or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this post.
He says that this is now a “political crisis that needs a political solution” and that the Government has a “constitutional responsibility to protect the national interest”, with Parliament the ultimate decision-maker on whether the UK follows through and leaves the European Union.
Disclosure statement:
Professor Dougan is an employee of the University of Liverpool. He does not work for, undertake paid consultancy for, or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this post.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,647
Likes: 22
I saw that interview on newsnight last night, she was painting a very grim picture and shes the one we do the trade deal with, so I suspect (although not 100% convinced) she might be right.
What I didn't know before that interview, and she seemed pretty convinced about it, was that the 2 year article 50 negotiations are purely negotiating exit terms and would not include any trade deals with the EU. Any trade deals would first start after the exit talks are completed. She made it out that this was the case whichever way we go, but I suspect it would not be the case if we took a Norway deal as an exit plan that would implicitly involve all the EU trade deals.
Part of the problem is nobody really considered the full consequences and people are only now starting to look into the real details of what's involved. You open up one can of worms and once you've sorted that out, you find another can of worms was hidden inside!
I really don't envy the poor civil servants that will have to sort through all this!
What I didn't know before that interview, and she seemed pretty convinced about it, was that the 2 year article 50 negotiations are purely negotiating exit terms and would not include any trade deals with the EU. Any trade deals would first start after the exit talks are completed. She made it out that this was the case whichever way we go, but I suspect it would not be the case if we took a Norway deal as an exit plan that would implicitly involve all the EU trade deals.
Part of the problem is nobody really considered the full consequences and people are only now starting to look into the real details of what's involved. You open up one can of worms and once you've sorted that out, you find another can of worms was hidden inside!
I really don't envy the poor civil servants that will have to sort through all this!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
It's you and your type that's put us in this mess, so I'd hold the rolleyes if I were you.
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,638
Likes: 229
From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
I could be wrong but I think Cecilia Malmstrom is talking bollox and is overstating her imposition, if only to make exiting the EU extremely difficult to prevent other EU nations from having the same idea. Howver, the commissioners have no power and work on a mandate provided by the EU Council made up of the leaders from each of the member states. Germany for one would not want to jepardise its exports and economy by trading with one of its largest markets via WTO.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,600
Likes: 29
From: UK
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 22
From: K
as your debunking of the Churchill meme showed
if someone blatantly lies to me - for what ever reason I am doubly sceptical of anything they say in the future
occasionally my wife will tell me about how a girlfriend of hers is worried about their husbands behaviour, you know, staying away excessively, new haircut etc etc
I simply say - "yes he is having an affair"
"no" comes the reply - the friend says he as ALWAYS got a reason, but has caught him out on a few small details
"yes - she is in denial" I say - she simply wants to believe
5 months later
Me - "How's Miranda and Charles"
wife "ah Charles has moved out - turns out he was seeing his secretary"
me "shame, he was quite good fun at a dinner party"
The above has honestly happened a few time - not to really close friends, but still
often people simply don't want to know the truth
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 22
From: K
From the comments I've read from officials today, its seems she was technically correct to state the processes of negotiating the exit status and any trade deals are completely separate, the general consensus is that the processes could, should and would be performed in parallel. However, if the trade deals take longer than the exit negotiations, then we would indeed exit before any trade deals are in place!
my view - when the button is pushed the outline plan settlement will be basically known
ironically it wont satisfy the most fervent brexiters
a lot of pain for not a lot of gain
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
what I don't understand is how willingly they let themselves be lied to
as your debunking of the Churchill meme showed
if someone blatantly lies to me - for what ever reason I am doubly sceptical of anything they say in the future
occasionally my wife will tell me about how a girlfriend of hers is worried about their husbands behaviour, you know, staying away excessively, new haircut etc etc
I simply say - "yes he is having an affair"
"no" comes the reply - the friend says he as ALWAYS got a reason, but has caught him out on a few small details
"yes - she is in denial" I say - she simply wants to believe
5 months later
Me - "How's Miranda and Charles"
wife "ah Charles has moved out - turns out he was seeing his secretary"
me "shame, he was quite good fun at a dinner party"
The above has honestly happened a few time - not to really close friends, but still
often people simply don't want to know the truth
as your debunking of the Churchill meme showed
if someone blatantly lies to me - for what ever reason I am doubly sceptical of anything they say in the future
occasionally my wife will tell me about how a girlfriend of hers is worried about their husbands behaviour, you know, staying away excessively, new haircut etc etc
I simply say - "yes he is having an affair"
"no" comes the reply - the friend says he as ALWAYS got a reason, but has caught him out on a few small details
"yes - she is in denial" I say - she simply wants to believe
5 months later
Me - "How's Miranda and Charles"
wife "ah Charles has moved out - turns out he was seeing his secretary"
me "shame, he was quite good fun at a dinner party"
The above has honestly happened a few time - not to really close friends, but still
often people simply don't want to know the truth
Have you watched that second Dougan vid' yet? Hot off the press.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
I keep losing my temper with the leavers, particularly those who ought to have known better. Your type are those with just enough knowledge to be dangerous. The unwitting participants in an almighty sham. Go and look-up polezniye duraki.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 22
From: K
its funny because it is so close to the truth
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 15,634
Likes: 22
From: K
When he gets the text from Cameron lol
It so good because it quite synced
I was away for the winners press conference the morning after
But apparently he looked shell shocked
It so good because it quite synced
I was away for the winners press conference the morning after
But apparently he looked shell shocked
Last edited by hodgy0_2; Jul 1, 2016 at 03:57 PM.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 12
All the doom and gloom predicted for the stock markets has appeared to have dissolved after the FTSE climbed to its highest level since 2015 - All the post referendum losses have recovered and an additional circa 300 points has been gained.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
From: Berks
Until we actually invoke article 50, then it starts all over again. Then of course the negotiations start and we see how close to the truth the out campaign ends up.
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,638
Likes: 229
From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
All the doom and gloom predicted for the stock markets has appeared to have dissolved after the FTSE climbed to its highest level since 2015 - All the post referendum losses have recovered and an additional circa 300 points has been gained.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,539
Likes: 0
I agree. Everyday fluctuation is not exactly a great sign. But it is great if you keep showing your teethy fake smile in a p7sstake way to the remainers and deliberately act oblivious to what really could be coming to you.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,647
Likes: 22
All the doom and gloom predicted for the stock markets has appeared to have dissolved after the FTSE climbed to its highest level since 2015 - All the post referendum losses have recovered and an additional circa 300 points has been gained.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
So the fear campaign from the remains appears to be shot to pieces.
RobJenks, I assume you voted for leave, what exactly do you hope to get with your vote? What conditions must be met in order to satisfy your reason to voting leave? Are you confident that the UK will get all or any of what you voted for? This can go out to all the leave voters too.
Immigration, swings and roundabouts. We have migrants from Europe that work here, but we have Britons that live and work in the EU.
Illegal immigrants, being part of the EU gives us the option of doing deals with the other European countries to share immigration between us. Out of the EU and if France (or Calais) get there way and offload our border along with all the illegal immigrants, we can whinge and moan but all we will get from Europe is
The reported £350 million a week. Well, I don't really have to go there. We all know the truth about that one. A lot of money will have to be spent on defence. We've got a couple of aircraft carriers due to be ready in a couple of years, but no actual aircraft (euro fighters?) to go on it until early next decade. And that was before brexit.
Cost of living. That will go up. Fuel, gas and electric . . . Stuff we've spent god knows how long moaning about the cost of, and seeing it come down in price in recent months will go back up, and that's just the start.
Scooby Senior
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,638
Likes: 229
From: Friedrichshafen Germany/Preston UK
Interestingly, the first of our F-35's landed in the UK today (yesterday?), but is only visiting to do some airshows over the summer before heading back to the US for continued development program. Full delivery of the first aircraft won't be for a couple of years yet! The carriers are due to be completed next year, so will be unusable until they get enough aircraft in 2020 - we already retired the Harrier aircraft which could have been used
Originally Posted by BMWhere?
F-35 Lightning II!
That's gonna seriously ruin your weekend!
Last edited by joz8968; Jul 1, 2016 at 09:40 PM.