When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Because of the life and times of Jesus versus the life and times of Mohammad. Whose example would you rather follow?
Hi,
If you check your history of the crusades - you will find plenty of examples of Christians murdering Jews and others in the name of God and under the orders of the various Popes - so move forward some centuries and we see IS persecuting others in the name of their God.
History certainly repeats itself and is always best written by the victors.
By the way - I am in no way defending IS actions - simply illustrating that through history, each religion has had their fair share of murdering zealots.
Cheers
Steve
Last edited by steve05wrx; 18 February 2016 at 04:50 PM.
Because of the life and times of Jesus versus the life and times of Mohammad. Whose example would you rather follow?
Who is the more pleasant is irrelevant, the question is about what is true and what is not. The question still stands, why are you right, and they are wrong?
A couple of questions: do you really think there are 2.6 billion Christians in the world? I suspect you've not drawn the distinction between cultural Christian and Born-again; with the latter being the Christian of the Bible. To drive this point home; whilst there are hundreds of thousands of 'Christians' being helped by Open Doors, many of them wouldn't know what it is to be born-again, hence the work of OD.
Second question: what is myth? Please define it.
You know what a myth is, and what I am inferring, why avoid the question with a question?
The actual amount of Christians in the world doesn't matter, it could be a million, it could be a billion, they could be bible thumpers, or Christians because their dad was. Most people in the world don't agree with your view.
A lot of them have equally deluded views, to be sure, but to them, Christianity is the same to them as Zeus is to us.
Now I accept that just because view is held by a minority doesn't make it untrue, the fact is that that view has nothing to back it up. Like any other religion. So, seeing as all religions have nothing whatsoever to back them up, what make Christianity true? It's a simple enough question. Not, the light of the world, or the promise of heaven, they are just words. Back it up.
Last edited by Geezer; 18 February 2016 at 05:00 PM.
Hi,
If you check your history of the crusades - you will find plenty of examples of Christians murdering Jews and others in the name of God and under the orders of the various Popes - so move forward some centuries and we see IS persecuting others in the name of their God.
History certainly repeats itself and is always best written by the victors.
By the way - I am in no way defending IS actions - simply illustrating that through history, each religion has had their fair share of murdering zealots.
Cheers
Steve
Where in the New Testament does Jesus command His slaves to go out and kill? Additionally, I am not a Catholic, I am a Protestant. I recommend you investigate the Reformation. It's all about the men and the books.
Who is the more pleasant is irrelevant, the question is about what is true and what is not. The question still stands, why are you right, and they are wrong?
You know what a myth is, and what I am inferring, why avoid the question with a question?
The actual amount of Christians in the world doesn't matter, it could be a million, it could be a billion, they could be bible thumpers, or Christians because their dad was. Most people in the world don't agree with your view.
A lot of them have equally deluded views, to be sure, but to them, Christianity is the same to them as Zeus is to us.
Now I accept that just because view is held by a minority doesn't make it untrue, the fact is that that view has nothing to back it up. Like any other religion. So, seeing as all religions have nothing whatsoever to back them up, what make Christianity true? It's a simple enough question. Not, the light of the world, or the promise of heaven, they are just words. Back it up.
And I'm sure any Koran basher could come up with similar, but it still doesn't address the question.
Essentially you are still relying on the bible, and some feelings.
Of course, the real tragedy is that neither one of us will be able to tell the other we were right.
If I am, we're dead and that's it. If you are, I'll be in hell and I doubt you'll be coming to visit
A Muslim can't claim to know Allah in the way I know Jesus. From the Qur'an:
"No vision can grasp him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things."
A Muslim can, however, read about the life and times of Mohammad and tragically they are to emulate him. I am to emulate Christ. Anyone who's read accounts of both lives will know that they are polar opposite.
A Muslim can't claim to know Allah in the way I know Jesus. From the Qur'an:
"No vision can grasp him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things."
A Muslim can, however, read about the life and times of Mohammad and tragically they are to emulate him. I am to emulate Christ. Anyone who's read accounts of both lives will know that they are polar opposite.
Now then, what's your understanding of Hell?
Again, you are not addressing the question. Mohammed was a psycho, Jesus wasn't, that's a reason for deciding to follow one. It doesn't address the question of which one is real (is in Jesus is a man, or a god). You have given reasons why you follow Jesus, not why that story is any more valid than the other. That is quite different.
As for hell, I don't really give it much thought as to me it doesn't exist in any sense whatsoever.
Lot of religions have a concept of hell, quite different from one another, so it's largely irrelevant.
If you are want to talk about a personal hell, well now we are just in to experience, the human mind and psychoanalysis, none of which, IMO, have anything to do with the divine.
Again, you are not addressing the question. Mohammed was a psycho, Jesus wasn't, that's a reason for deciding to follow one. It doesn't address the question of which one is real (is in Jesus is a man, or a god). You have given reasons why you follow Jesus, not why that story is any more valid than the other. That is quite different.
As for hell, I don't really give it much thought as to me it doesn't exist in any sense whatsoever.
Lot of religions have a concept of hell, quite different from one another, so it's largely irrelevant.
If you are want to talk about a personal hell, well now we are just in to experience, the human mind and psychoanalysis, none of which, IMO, have anything to do with the divine.
I'm going to have to borrow from CS Lewis. Jesus is either a lunatic, a liar or Lord. You decide.
I have followed this post with interested, appreciated both sides, when they have been constructive and respect every mans opinion, book or not, irrespective of my beliefs, or lack of.
I can't accept belief in the face of scientific fact, but can see why it exists when you question what happens outside of what science can't explain. Everything started from a single point 'the big bang' put simply, but there must have been a before and something that created it.
I struggle, as I am sure most do, with the concept of forever, with no start or finish, if we started from a single point and will end up back there, is it not plausible that there was something that caused the start and something that will be there after the end, in whatever form?
I guess my position would be that of being an optimistic agnostic, I dont think that there is anything beyond, but would like to think there is for those I love.
One thing that I struggle with more is that of learnt religion, rather than that of one that is adopted of free will. Most people of faith adopt it from their environment, not through free will, born a Muslim, born a Christian, born a Scientologist, chances are you would have chosen a different path if you born in a different place and of different minds.
Given my position, which is pretty neutral, my 4 year old daughter goes to a school called The Virgin Mary Primary, so you can guess their particular bent, which I have no real problem with, at the moment
Don't get me wrong, if she chose that path I would have no objection because I lover her, I just wished that she was of an age where she could rationalise what she is being told, which at the moment she can't.
None of us really know what the truth is, no matter how much you 'feel' it, I guess that is why is is a belief and not a fact. At the end of the day either one of us is right, or none of us. But the real tragedy is that we want to fight and kill each other over something that we are programmed to follow, in the main.
I don't mind too much how the little decides to live her life as long as she is respectful to others and looks after me in my old age
Last edited by Scooby.Newbie; 19 February 2016 at 10:03 PM.
I have followed this post with interested, appreciated both sides, when they have been constructive and respect every mans opinion, book or not, irrespective of my beliefs, or lack of.
I can't accept belief in the face of scientific fact, but can see why it exists when you question what happens outside of what science can't explain. Everything started from a single point 'the big bang' put simply, but there must have been a before and something that created it.
I struggle, as I am sure most do, with the concept of forever, with no start or finish, if we started from a single point and will end up back there, is it not plausible that there was something that caused the start and something that will be there after the end, in whatever form?
I guess my position would be that of being an optimistic agnostic, I dont think that there is anything beyond, but would like to think there is for those I love.
One thing that I struggle with more is that of learnt religion, rather than that of one that is adopted of free will. Most people of faith adopt it from their environment, not through free will, born a Muslim, born a Christian, born a Scientologist, chances are you would have chosen a different path if you born in a different place and of different minds.
Given my position, which is pretty neutral, my 4 year old daughter goes to a school called The Virgin Mary Primary, so you can guess their particular bent, which I have no real problem with, at the moment
Don't get me wrong, if she chose that path I would have no objection because I lover her, I just wished that she was of an age where she could rationalise what she is being told, which at the moment she can't.
None of us really know what the truth is, no matter how much you 'feel' it, I guess that is why is is a belief and not a fact. At the end of the day either one of us is right, or none of us. But the real tragedy is that we want to fight and kill each other over something that we are programmed to follow, in the main.
I don't mind too much how the little decides to live her life as long as she is respectful to others and looks after me in my old age
I have followed this post with interested, appreciated both sides, when they have been constructive and respect every mans opinion, book or not, irrespective of my beliefs, or lack of.
I can't accept belief in the face of scientific fact, but can see why it exists when you question what happens outside of what science can't explain. Everything started from a single point 'the big bang' put simply, but there must have been a before and something that created it.
I struggle, as I am sure most do, with the concept of forever, with no start or finish, if we started from a single point and will end up back there, is it not plausible that there was something that caused the start and something that will be there after the end, in whatever form?
I guess my position would be that of being an optimistic agnostic, I dont think that there is anything beyond, but would like to think there is for those I love.
One thing that I struggle with more is that of learnt religion, rather than that of one that is adopted of free will. Most people of faith adopt it from their environment, not through free will, born a Muslim, born a Christian, born a Scientologist, chances are you would have chosen a different path if you born in a different place and of different minds.
Given my position, which is pretty neutral, my 4 year old daughter goes to a school called The Virgin Mary Primary, so you can guess their particular bent, which I have no real problem with, at the moment
Don't get me wrong, if she chose that path I would have no objection because I lover her, I just wished that she was of an age where she could rationalise what she is being told, which at the moment she can't.
None of us really know what the truth is, no matter how much you 'feel' it, I guess that is why is is a belief and not a fact. At the end of the day either one of us is right, or none of us. But the real tragedy is that we want to fight and kill each other over something that we are programmed to follow, in the main.
I don't mind too much how the little decides to live her life as long as she is respectful to others and looks after me in my old age
Hi,
Well said!
Interestingly, I was brought up as a Roman Catholic and my wife as a Hindu.
When our son was admitted to hospital with chickenpox I needed to complete a form that had a question about his religion (which I would generally leave blank on most forms - for privacy reasons). On this form, in jest, I wrote 'Roman Hindu" and to this day that is how we describe him and put it on all forms.
He is now 10 years old and we have exposed him to both religions throughout his life and are leaving him to choose his path - when he comes of age.
Who am I (or my wife) to force him to adopt one faith or the other?
This has caused some interesting discussions with a Catholic priest who was absolutely disgusted that I was not bringing up as a Catholic exclusively!
Cheers
Steve
I attend a baptist chapel and that denomination is so called because its membership do not subscribe to the doctrine of infant baptism. In other words it ought to be the choice of the individual when and if they are baptised and they are to be baptised believers with the logic being that one can't make the choice to be baptised (an outward profession of faith) when a baby. As it happens I was 'Christened' as a baby and there are some sound theological arguments for infant baptism.
I was not 'confirmed' and I've not received a believer's baptism as an adult, partly because I'm not married to my partner.
I attend a baptist chapel and that denomination is so called because its membership do not subscribe to the doctrine of infant baptism. In other words it ought to be the choice of the individual when and if they are baptised and they are to be baptised believers with the logic being that one can't make the choice to be baptised (an outward profession of faith) when a baby. As it happens I was 'Christened' as a baby and there are some sound theological arguments for infant baptism.
I was not 'confirmed' and I've not received a believer's baptism as an adult, partly because I'm not married to my partner.
This is the church where my parents married, my sister and I were Christened, my sister was married, my niece was Christened and where my father, grandmother and grandfather had their funerals. I'm sometimes troubled by the memory of the address I gave at my father's funeral; deeply materialist (my father was an atheist and so was I at the time) it in no way acknowledged the surroundings, the function of the building or the deep family heritage attached to it. I feel as though I squandered my spiritual inheritance and betrayed my Creator. That He took me back is a quite staggering act of grace and compassion.
Quite different to Calvary, where I have fellowship now:
Calvary is very different to Emmanuel, not just denominationally, but in the way it facilitates a direct relationship with the Lord. Calvary has no icons or posh masonry, no real hireachy and is completely independent. There's nothing to distract the Christian from worship, it's almost simultaneously both the epitome and antithesis of what a religious building ought to be. I'd like my partner and I to be married there.
Last edited by JTaylor; 20 February 2016 at 09:53 AM.
Go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.......
CSLewis said “…the door out of Hell is firmly locked, (but) by the devils themselves, on the inside", so by me wilfully living in sin I may well be condemning myself. I agonise over it. As I stated earlier in the thread I am praying that my partner will come to faith so that we might have a sincere Christian wedding. The Lord knows my intentions are good, so I hope that this is my 'get out card'.
isnt that closing the stable door after the horse has bolted?
Not really. All sins are forgiven assuming the believer is truly repentant. The trap door upon which I stand is that I still share a bed with my partner of twelve years so should my life be snatched away my fate is uncertain. Only the Lord knows.
according to the book you so often qoute yes. so in other words i can live a life of total debauchery and sin, sex outside marriage (like you) and i just have to confess my sin on my death bed and proclaim my belief in the lord and im allowed in and all is forgiven?
18 February 2016, 04:49 PM
