dpb

The immigration thing is a total red herring , good for kipper support and other hard of thinking types

Martin2005

Yep it's a complete side show. Cameron basically decided to have a pretend argument, over a pretend issue. This is what happens when you let the Daily Mail dictate policy.


Where are the measures on subsidiarity and improving competitiveness? These are the real issues of the EU - not bloody immigration and benefits.


Warren does make me laugh. Not more than a year ago he was boldly claiming that there would be no referendum, and calling anyone who said there would an idiot. So if he can be so basically and blatantly wrong about that, then I'd take the rest of his views on this subject with a pinch of salt


Still awaiting his apology...

hodgy0_2

yes, this pretty much my view

whatever he thought he was going to get it has been a pretty damp squib, pretty pathetic really

I don't think it will persuade the die hard outers

and as you say it will actually frame the in / out debate on such a narrow issue

when actually their is probably a good debate to have

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The good thing about it all is that the EC bigwigs haven't seen his immigration thing as a ruse, so have offered him next to nowt.

So he cannot fool the anti-immigration outers with it, because he's nowt to offer. It will have hardend them.

warrenm2

Why do you keep banging on about this? NO-ONE wants to rejoin!

In the year to June 2015 there were 214000 NI numbers issued to Romanians and Bulgarians. UKIP estimated 50000 per year, so in fact underestimated the numbers. So that "rhetoric and scaremongering" was in fact accurate assessment. Look forward to your correction....

No-one is saying we wont accept refugees outside of the EU. You don't have to be in political union to accept refugees. Being outside the union does mean you can choose how many you take though.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And it will be up to US, not the EC to decide who are refugees...and who are economic migrants.

dpb

We've done amazing well allready to dodge them, have we not??

jonc

I mentioned it once in response to Madscoob "rolflmfao"ing who thinks the the EU would bend over backwards to have the UK rejoin, I hardly think that constitutes as "banging on" about it! If we're out, we're out for good.

The 214000 figure you quote is from the DWP who state that their figure should actually be viewed with caution since they say that a change in the way registrations are recorded may have exaggerated the figure. This figure does not represent the influx of Romanians and Bulgarians since work restrictions were lifted, to say so is to add to the rhetoric and scaremongering. Whilst I acknowledge that a rise would be inevitable, that figure also includes the migrants that have resided in this country prior to the lifting of the restrictions. The number of NI registrations does not represent the flow of migrants into and out of the UK.

Farage predicted 5000 Bulgarians and Romanians would arrive every week after the lifting of the restriction, the reality is 7000 in the first 6 months, far short of the 130000 Farage predicted would have arrived for the same period.

I agree with Farage that our borders should be controlled and I would be pro to an Australian style points system, but not the rest of the hyperbole that gets banded about.

But the UK Government does and has already chosen how many refugees it will take in!! Besides, like I said earlier, the EU referendum is more than just immigration!

warrenm2

Got a link for this? The answer will be no as its simply not true

jonc

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5321387.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5674616.html

neil-h

Here's a thought, is total political and economic autonomy actually better?

dpb

I'm surprised Warren is still a member at all after the Thanet wipe out

Martin2005

I'm surprised he's got the brass neck to post on this thread, given that he so categorically stated (over and over again) that there wouldn't even be a referendum!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Speaking of Brass Neck, Martin.........

"No it isn't!"
"No it won't!"
"No it doesn't!"
"No it hasn't!"

Mind, you HAVE gone a bit quiet since your hero was replaced by a REAL socialist, LOL

Martin2005

'Hero'?? Having you been drinking diesel again?

dpb

look at what its done for Assange ! , I would agree

hodgy0_2

it complicated but the ECHR is a construct of the "Council of Europe"

I know it has Europe in the title but is actually different from the European Union


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe


"The Council of Europe (CoE; French: Conseil de l'Europe), founded in 1949, is a regional intergovernmental organisation whose stated goal is to promote human rights, democracy, and the rule of law in its 47 member states, covering 820 million citizens. The organisation is separate from the 28-nation European Union, though sometimes confused with it, in part because they share the European flag. Unlike the European Union, the Council of Europe cannot make binding laws."


its main sponsor was a guy called Winston Churchill

neil-h

Says the bloke who resorts to calling everything a "straw man" when he can't/won't debate a point...

warrenm2

Sorry, I didnt make it clear. I meant a report direct from Farage, not a report of someone claiming that Farage had said it. Both those links are quotes from the Migration Matters Trust, not Farage

jonc

Google it. There are plenty of other reports from other sources quoting the "5000 a week" prediction. Show me a direct quote of ukip claiming 50000 a year, which in any case is still massively over estimated. If you're not happy with that, I can show you a UKIP poster claiming 26 million are after our jobs.

warrenm2

From "https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/574550002975948801"

Apologies to the British media. I said last year 50,000 Romanians/Bulgarians would register to work in the UK. It's actually 187,370. Wow.

HTH

update: After checking this 5000/week claim, it seems like UKIP is correct and the haters are cloth eared. This leaflet and this poster seem to be the source. Note it is talking about number of new arrivals generally, NOT Romanians/ Bulgarians specifically. Seeing as the number is now 350000/year the correct current figure is nearly 7000/week. HTH