Felix.

Those are all the figures. Any incident, any event, any contact with police gets its own incident number.

Also 'those visited for committing a crime' will be linked to an incident number of a person reporting that crime. So, a victim reporting that they have just been assaulted by Fred Bloggs will have the same event number as the time we arrest/interview Bloggs for that assault. There will be 'self generated' incidents, for example if we come across a fight that no one wishes to make a complaint about (ie public order events).

The only speed cameras we have is a van than goes around and parks up, but that is hardly ever used and is down to the private company than runs us. The only static cameras we have are ANPR

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So answer the question.

show us the numbers contacted by police against those contact-ING police for help etc?

Show us the numbers of those who simply get a letter demanding money with menaces?

And justify why the motorist breaking an arbitrary law gets two punishments...and FIVE if he goes to court, when he hurt no-one, and caused no damage, where Joe Cool who hurt someone and stole stuff gets one punishment? Usually less than the motorist's fine, IF he gets fined at ALL?

And you wonder why increasing numbers of folks hate you? Tax gatherers, not police.

stipete75

Also not a police lover, it's more about revenue, after all the police force is a registered business in it for profit.
Fines and profits for stupid bylaws enforced by the police.
As said I generally can't stand the men and women in fancy dress but I think we do have it much easier than those across the pond, give a copper a gun and your asking for trouble,some of the harassment and abuse videos posted on YouTube are absolutely awful to watch.

Felix.

"Demanding money with menaces"

You mean a fixed penalty ticket

Well, whether this is posted out or hand delivered to the driver in person, the number will be 3094 contacted by police with a FPN ending

So that's 296,906 other non 'demanding money with menaces' type things.


Crime-wise

Publicly reported offences - 42,518 (those contacting police for help with crimes)
Police recorded offences - 4,246 (public order, drug finds, etc)
ASBO offences - 42,373 (breaches of ASBO, kids playing football etc)


Joe Cool (who hurt someone and stole stuff) will get a whole host of adjudications from that one appearance. Usually 3-5 including - prison sentence (either suspended or not), supervision orders, fines (usually a lot more than a speeder), costs, compensation order, restraining orders, community punishments, probation orders etc

Billy Motorist gets a fine and points - although saying that i believe a speed awareness course reduces your points or fine i believe.

Felix.

Stupid police enforced laws such as murders, rapes, sexual assaults, burglaries etc etc

Or are you referring to speeding too - the stuff that only makes up 1% of what we do.

eh?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

1. I'm talking the letters that arrive signed by the police, telling you you were caught by a camera at XYZ....I DO NOT believe your force only hands out 4000 per month.

2. Motorist in court: a0 fine, b) points, c) costs, d) victim surcharge, e) crimianl costs as well sometimes, f) extra on insurance.

3. Joe Cool in court: a) conditional, or b) supervision for first offence, d) no fine therefore no victim charge, MAYBE costs but limited.

Fair? Nope.

Motorist has done no damage, hurt no-one, simply disobeyed an arbitrary law.
Joe Cool has hurt someone, stolen stuff and done damage.

And the police not only condone this, but help to make it work.

stipete75

You work for the Metropolitan Police
Service that is a registered company and listed on Dunn &
Bradstreet, basically you are just another private security firm in it for profits.

All police take an oath to uphold the law of land, is this
correct? Are you aware that everyday by enforcing statutes you're upholding
commercial law which is the law of the waters and NOT enforceable
on dry land?
Are you aware that by doing so the police force are being grossly
negligent and this in itself is punishable by jail?
No alarm harassment or distress caused then quite frankly it's non of your concern thank you, I don't require or wish for your services.

neil-h

You neglect the fact Mr Cool will be obligated to disclose his criminal record when questioned and I'd hazard a guess people will look far less favorably on his record than they will that of the speeder.

As for the speeders possible increase insurance, you really need to stop listing that as is if it's a penalty enforced by the courts. It's not and to try and say it is simply skews the argument. Insurance (theoretically) is based on statistics, companies know that statistically most people will break the speed limit at some point. If you have a speeding conviction your insurer now know that you do (see what's changed there) break the speed limit, so of course your premium should go up as statistically you are greater potential hazard.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Still gives Motorist FOUR punishments to Joe's one or two, and Motorist STILL hurt no-one and damaged nothing.

It's a revenue stream, plain and simple, and the police, bless 'em, are too stupid to see it.

neil-h

You could just abide by the speed limits...

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I do. I have no points. But I LOATHE the sneaky way the motorist, with hi easily photographed and traced "barcode" on his car, is targeted for even more revenue, in the guise of keeping people safe.

As I've said before on here: IF it was about cutting down on deaths, the preferred type of speed camera would NOT be facing the front of the car, to get a decent photo of the driver so no-one could deny it, but the REAR of vehicles so it could ALSO catch motorbikes, who make up 38% of fatalities on today's roads, despite only being 4% of the traffic!!!!!

Road safety my @rse!!!

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

Camera vans, speed cameras are not operated by police officers. They are operated and run by civilians who work for the police authority.

I've been a police officer for ten years and have never issued a speeding ticket and work with 5 others on my shift who are the same.

I wish people could distinguish between a speed camera / camera van and a police officer but they seem to struggle.

As I've said before, I've got used to the hate and it's water off a duck back to me.

Turbohot

But who enforces these speed cameras and speed camera vans? who is responsible to do you, if you get caught speeding?

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

If you get caught speeding by a van or camera it will be a civilian who processes the ticket etc - not a cop.

Don't get me wrong, I hate speed cameras but police officer you see on the beat will have nothing to do with speed cameras or speed enforcement (with the exception of traffic cops who can still use discretion).

Turbohot

I'm not interested in the ones that process, I'm interested in the ones who enforce.

When you get a a speeding penalty notice, it's sent to by your police department; may that be e.g. North Wales Police with their glorious logo on. If you don't pay the fine and happily receive points on your licence, they keep at it until you sort it.

So, back to the question, beat or no beat, isn't the Police responsible for enforcing these devices, in order to have the drivers drive within the lawful speed?

I don't mind static cameras at all. I'm fundamentally against the sneaky camera vans, though.

Felix.

What have you Been smoking.....?

You mean statutes such as theft and rape?

Statutes are passed by government & house of lords and are enforceable on land, air and sea - so yes they are our concern.
You mention harassment & distress. Well the harassment act & pubic order offences are statute law so i don't believe you know what you are talking about.....

And the met police service is not a profit making security firm...

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Leeds 182: Police send out the letters..or at least they better, since they come emblazoned with the logo of whichever constabulary.......

Police enforce it, (and lie about it at the same time, trust me).

The police will be a partner in whichever scam is running the cameras, the others partners being the council, and wait for it..the fukcing COURTS!!!

It's a revenue stream, nothing else. And whatever bullsh!t statistics Felix posts, it's the way MOST law-abiding people have contact with the coppers...a letter demanding money with menaces, and the only "crime" to which you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to incriminate yourself, on pain of a £1000 fine if you refuse.

SCAM.

neil-h

Have you ever actually seen a NIP/penalty notice? You've got to be pretty feeble minded to consider that to be menacing. If you think a letter in the post is bad I'd hate to think of what you make of drugs raids and car chases.

As for incriminating yourself, what would you prefer? Presumed guilt as the owner?

Yeah I can appreciate that, you are unfortunately covered by the camera partnership that has previous for hiding in horse boxes and using undercover bikers.

JackClark

After they've broken the law?

JackClark

Thanks for your service Felix. I can't believe how dumb some of these comments are, I'd love for them to spend a day in your boots.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I've seen them, yes I've seen the threats, yes, I've seen folk get £1000 fines for failure to disclose (failure to incriminate).
I've also seen letters from so-called safety camera partnerships threatening to prosecute for dangerous driving on NO evidence, unless the driver undertook a police driving course...the driver concerned did some research, asked a well known solicitors how the police could POSSIBLY prosecute on no evidence, the response was, "Have you ever been up in front of magistrates? If the police say you were speeding in a flying saucer, the mags will just carry on and fine you...it's a scam!"

I don't understand your point about drugs raids, car chases, in what way do they have to incriminate themselves?

As for self-incrimination, forced or otherwise, I was brought up in a country where innocence was presumed until guilt was proven...until Lying Labour changed all that.

It's a scam...and if you either can't see it, or try to defend it, you are simple-minded...or a copper...same thing really

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Aye, an arbitrary law, hurting no-one, doing no damage, a law which is manipulated to get the highest returns in fines.

Can you really not see that, or do you simply not understand?

What of the myriad of punishments for drivers who hurt no-one, steal nothing etc etc, against the single, or maybe two punishments meted out to those who rob, burgle, attack, steal, sell drugs, etc etc etc????

I know...lets have a law that FORCES people to admit to downloading stuff without paying properly, fine anyone £1000 who refuses to admit it, and give out fines, confiscate the phones, turtn off the broadband, confiscate computers AND make them pay costs and a victim surcharge.

crap? yep.......see above.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

"mmmmm, lick, suck, mmmmmmmmsuck lick......." sound of jack licking @rse

Felix.

Each incident we deal with, gets an incident number. Its how we track how many we deal with and identify each one. So, on average per year we get about 300,000 incidents to deal with. Hence the figure of 3094 for speeders in the 2014/15 period, which as i have argued is about 1% of the populations contact with police. Unless of course they sneak a load in to the court without an incident number attached.

Most crimes can have 3,4,5 or more punishments. People's PNC prints of previous convictions for burglaries, assaults, thefts etc etc shows a fine/imprisonment + court costs + victim compensation + supervision order + protection order etc etc. I know as these have to be documented onto files for bad character references on people. Yet, when i got flashed for speeding, i just paid a fine and had 3 points - that's it, nothing more.

Car drivers are much more likely to be injured in collisions where there is a large change in their vehicle's velocity (which occurs when a vehicle is in a collision). Higher speeds lead to higher changes in velocity during the collision, and so are more likely to result in injuries or death. So, to say that speeding hurt no one is a little off the mark.

Felix.

This is another one you keep saying which I don't follow your logic. Were you driving the car or not? If you were, why not just tell the truth. If you were and you want to lie to a court by saying it was not you, do you not think this is bad and deserves some sort of punishment? If you can't remember who was driving, then this forms the basis of your defence under 'due diligence'. You can defend this on the basis that you cannot say who the driver is but there is a particular format to use and you would need to assert that you genuinely cannot say who the driver was after exercising reasonable diligence. Obviously you cannot say something that is not true (ie saying it was you driving when you genuinely can't be sure) as that's a perjury and that carries custody.

Felix.

I still don't follow your logic on saying that "..it's the way MOST law-abiding people have contact with the coppers..". It's 1% if that.

And no one is telling you to incriminate yourself - you have due diligence

Scooby.Newbie

I think that the police do an amazing job, and agree with the earlier comment about walking a mile in their boots, I wouldn't fancy it, must be tough.

But, can understand why people get disillusioned, I recently picked up a NIP for the average speed cameras on the A34, Didcot. Now I have been through there since and where I think they say I was doing 47 in a 40 the speed limit changes in between cameras and I am pretty sure I had my cruise control on, as I tend to have going through average speed areas.

Now, I could take the £100 fine and 3 points, that are offered to me without any evidence, or I can opt to go to court, and as the NIP points out risk a much higher fine, costs and 6 points if I lose, so the police seem to have a double or quits deal going on just for me to question the charge that has been presented with no evidence.

I also have on occasions watched Police Interceptors and seen total scum bags racing through residential areas at >60 miles an hours, where your kids could be playing, if they could tear themselves away from the x-box, and they end up i court with dangerous driving, evading arrest and what do they get, points on a license they don't have and a order to pay £50 in court cost, by way of .50p a week for 10 years as they are drawing tax supported benefits.

How the sh|t can that be right, and how is it going to get the normal man on your side?

Like I said, I think they do a good job, but gets my back up at the same time.

Sorry for the long post, wrong week to start vapping, need a *** after that

lozgti1

Brilliant Jack.

Absolutely brilliant and clever post with no insight into reality whatsoever.

But hey ho.Get into a yellow jacket (and nice boots ) and chill out for the day looking for simple targets

Felix.

Yep, i was caught a while a go for 58 in a 50 (or similar), so points and a fine – I really had no issue with this. It was my punishment for taking that chance. And I accepted these issues/likelihoods/punishments when I accepted the driving licence when I passed my test (many years ago); i.e. “you can have a driving licence and drive on the road so long as you accept the rules and the punishments which my happen if you break those rules.

Also, the thing to consider when a lesser punishment exists for an early guilty plea is that it will open the door to everyone going 'not guilty'. So Billy Burglar (who has been caught in the act and is bang to rights) will automatically go 'not guilty' and wait for the trial in 6 months time. He will then hope that none of the witnesses turn up (which often happens) and he gets away with it. If, they all turn up – he can change is plea to guilty and get nothing more for his time delaying.

Scooby.Newbie

Felix, believe me I am on your side, and think that 'you' do a great job, there are just aspects that I think alienate the normal law abiding public.

I have never been in trouble with the police, have taught my daughter that you are people to trust above all others when I am not around (hope I can trust you all) and take her to say hello to the local bobbies on the street when we see one while out and about.

But, the this NIP did get to me, I had three points 18 years ago, from a policeman I was drinking with the week before (used to drink in a bar that was inside a police station when I lived in Cornwall, believe it or not), but fair do, I knew him but I was in the wrong, so took it.

Had nothing since, or before, so to have to risk getting double or more just to have my say seems wrong, when others that seem bang to rights get far less when they take it distance leave a sour taste.

And, one other thing, I thought you were crime prevention officers, and I understand the need for stealth in certain circumstances but when I see three or four under cover BMW's cruising the M3 looking to catch speeders, that does seem a little like subversive revenue generation as well, be seen, you will slow so many more people down.

But, all in all, respect