JTaylor

Apparently the UK has flown around 400 sorties in Iraq (since the rise of IS) without a single civilian casualty. This action, taken alongside our allies both in the air and on the ground, has seen a halt to the phenomenally rapid advance of IS and has stopped them at the gates of Baghdad. The Kurds are on record as having thanked the allies for the air support which has meant they've been able to defend their homeland. What we see now is a vote to extend this effective action in to Syria rather than us having to stop at some border that now barely applies in the region. This is something rather than nothing. If we can take out income sources like the oil heads we hit last night, and if we can be razor sharp in our identity of and subsequent destruction of IS camps and columns and assets then it is with regret that I have to get behind military action. It's simply seems to be the least bad option available. I am, of course, conscious of how very wrong we (and I) have had it in the past.

Scrappy9

400 sorties wonder how many bombs were dropped.
Struggle to believe no civilian casualties, but then again they wouldn't lie to us, would they.
These people aren't stupid so they will be fully aware that being in areas where normal people are, pmakes life safer for them - when we started bombing Iraq they parked their tanks in residential areas.
Whilst l can understand and agree with the bombing of revenue makers such as oil fields, l do wonder how/ where they sell their oil, surely it would be easier to stop that aspect

hodgy0_2

yes I totally agree with going after the funding (as I said earlier)

why isn't this ruthlessly pursued

not just bombing Oil Fields, it may look good on the news, but again simply has the effect of reducing the infrastructure to rubble - damaging any chance of rebuilding the country once a victory is proclaimed - as we have seen from the recent past

may be they are afraid of where it will lead,

I quote again the America Major who exclaimed in Vietnam - "we have to destroy this village to save it" - we don't seemd to have learnt much in the last 40 years

this money does not spring into existence from nothing - it will have an electronic trail, it can be traced to its source and destination

you can't fund this operation on some giant bartering systems

oh and I think I heard the "70k" statement, much like the 45min claim is being disowned by military and security services

Tidgy

they are going after the money.

Problem is the laws that protect freedom also slow that down.

They can't even keep an eye on what websites you visit without people being up in arms, let alone anything else

hodgy0_2

be careful not to build a strawman

this is not about blanket surveillance of peoples internet habits

this is about the targeting of the money supply and logistical support - I suspect the "powers that be" have ALL the powers they need to investigate that r
they don't need to know my or your www habits

jonc

Hundreds of civilians killed by coalition air strikes against Isil in Syria and Iraq

hodgy0_2

I think JT is talking specifically about the recent UK air campaign in Iraq

A military spokesman did say that in over 400 sorties no civilians where killed

how he knows and what constitutes a civilian is not really explained

jonc

Well the coalition acknowledges there being only two children as civilian casualties in a year long intensive bombing campaign with over 6500 strikes at IS targets. Really?

hodgy0_2

yes, I agree

I was just clarifying where JT's comment came from

I remember as an excited teenager listening to the media / military commentators talking about the famous Vulcan raid on Port Stanley airport, the day after the raid (I have always been interested in military history)

they talked about the success of the raid, precision bombing - cratering the runway, making unusable for the Argentinian air force.

I believed it all, even when the Argentinians showed footage of C130's landing a few days later and this was dismissed by the MOD as propaganda, I initially believed that too

we now know that the raids were not the unqualified success billed at the time (I am not for one minute denigrating the skill and bravery all the pilots involved btw)

I remember thinking at the time not to take what the military say at face value - they always spin it

and then there is the simple "fog of war"

Mus

iTrader: (2)

185,000 homeless people you will be mad to vote yes.