dpb

Anyway, they're saved, for time being


Got to keep up appearances

hodgy0_2

their main Airport in Athens is one of the best in Europe (imo)

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Wasn't Athen's airport totally replaced by a completely new airport for the Olympics? Seeing its only 11 years old and cost the Greeks the best part of £7billion odd (the rough cost of the hosting the olympics) I bloody well hope its one of the best airports.

Matteeboy

£7 billion?! Is it gold plated?!!

hodgy0_2

yes, that's the one

they built rails link too

the problem the Greeks have, especially around Athens is that whenever they do any sort of excavation/building works, 9 times out of 10 they will hit a archaeological site of some potential importance

The Greeks are rightly proud of their history and contribution to modern civilisation

so rather than bulldoze straight through potentially important archaeological sites (like some religious fanatics do)

the whole project stops and has to tread/proceed very carefully

it does send costs up though - but you can't put a price on civilisation!!

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

The most ridiculous post I've read for a while.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

But IS our economy doing well? Maybe in the SE and London, but I see zero evidence of anything outside those zones....in fact, jobs are still being lost, unemployment is at stupid levels and youth unemployment is worse.

Due to past short-sightedness and continuing stupidity over wanting to site EVERY FUKCING THING in London or the SE, that's your problem, right there.

The French put a stop to it in and around Paris forty to fifty years ago, with tax breaks NOT to build factories there and tax hikes on those who insisted.

The areas of the UK that really need both development and jobs are being left out once again. London to Bristol rail link anyone? Fine.

Northern Powerhouse anyone? No chance

Matteeboy

I'm glad some people have a proper sense of how an economy runs. And isn't blinded by PR driven sound bites.

I reminds me of a recent Subaru news story telling us how sales were up by an impressive percentage; completely failing to mention that the numbers are still incredibly low.

I guess when you're in PR, you notice the "tricks" used more easily.

RRGM; another person slagging off a post while adding nothing to the thread.

Weak, very weak.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I didn't really know where to start.

Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by our deficit being 4x bigger than Greece's, and how that alone is at all meaningful.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

At this point, we do need to know that we are all using the same word, deficit, to mean what we ACTUALLY owe, NOT the difference between income and outgoings.

Like Osborne uses.

Matteeboy

Let me put it very simply while using short, easy to understand words.

Greece has a large deficit (hoping you understand that word?).
Britain has one too (are you still with me?).

Britains deficit is four times (that all the fingers on ONE hand; don't count that thumb) larger. Like if Johnny has one sweet and Bert has four; Bert has four times the number of sweets.

Did you manage to keep up?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I was hoping you'd have provide some sort of context; i.e. facts, comparisons with other countries, debt as GDP, deficit as GDP. Some number being 4 times bigger than another number, is in itself meaningless. I hear Rwanda has a tiny deficit compared to the UK, they must be doing well.

Heck I'd even settle with a link to your 4x figure.

hodgy0_2

yes, this is the missing trick

my debt, I suspect, is larger than someone who is living on benefits or on a very low wage

but I would rather have my financial position

the comparison between our financial situation and Greece's was a con trick played out by Cameron and Osborne to frighten people

hodgy0_2

well, I would expect the tories to do anything about it - they don't get any votes there

Matteeboy

The data doesn't seem to be in one place but what's easy to find out is that Greeces National debt is around £325bn.
Britains national debt is £1.5 TRILLION.

Now many of those who just can't accept we're in the sh17 will waffle on about our debt being far more manageable as apparently, we're more productive. But we're not really.

Where's our big industry? What do we export? What are we known for?
Cosying up with a few banks, a handful of French owned utility companies and making some cars for the Japanese. We're clinging onto a few big firms like Rolls Royce (more or less) but not a lot else. The banks have shown that not only have they utterly raped our economy but they will also get in a huff and threaten to move abroad if we don't bow down to them.

What have we got left? And should things turn out better than I predict, where's the infrastructure to support it?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

This is the crux of your argument? You don't think we're more productive?

You need to get on the blower to the IMF and World Bank because they disagree; we are about 5th in the world on GDP, with Greece 44th, slightly above Iraq and less than Pakistan. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_GDP_(nominal))

Nearly 80% of our GDP is from services. Is that in itself bad? Eggs in one basket perhaps, but at least we have a basket, look at Greece.

dpb

Belgium has same population as Greece , but twice the debt

They're only useful for chocolate and frites and beer !

Matteeboy

Well it's not bang up to date but while the UK is ahead, it's still well down the list. Greece isn't much further down.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...PP)_per_capita

What is clear is that accurate data is very much buried in PR tainted waffle. Figures are skewed, manipulated, massaged to make Greece look worse but the UK look better.

80% from the service industry; that's dire. I bet the bulk of that is those fu*kwit bankers.

jonc

Do you even know what that link represents? It's largely irrelevant and doesn't support your what you're saying, it has nothing to do with economic output.

Read Hodgy's reply, it explains it very clearly in layman's terms, if you still don't understand, just stick with what you know, counting Johnny and Bert's sweets.

Matteeboy

Interesting; their roads are dismal too.

Some idiot keeps quoting me. Can you stop; I'm not conversing with muppets like you; I made it very clear. Now F off.

jonc

So you try and start thread accusing myself and few others as trolls instead. Nice! Post something relevant and on topic instead of the same tired old rhetoric with nothing to back it up and you might get a bit more out of the thread. I'll put forward a counter argument and robustly if needed, and I do this for everyone not just yourself, if you can't take it then simply don't reply.

mike74

Greece is just the ultimate example of what happens when the greedy, feckless, self indulgent baby boomer generation are given the keys to the sweetshop... they help themselves to everything and leave future generations to pay for it.

Exactly the same has happened in the UK, just on a slightly less dramatic scale.

hodgy0_2

How has this been done in the UK?

By a ruthless pursuit of asset price inflation and subsequent protection of that largely unearned income/wealth?

Or something else?

Matteeboy

A clear pattern emerges; a few "I'm alright Jacks" bury their heads in the sand and are convinced it'll all carry on as it is.
A few skint people are stuffed whatever happens.
A tiny number who are doing okay manage to step back and look at the real picture.

We'll see how it all pans out.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Most of the works for the Greek Olympics (including the new airport) were constructed by German companies.

It's called "lend me money to buy things from you" (same goes with defence)

This is the European Union dictatorship we live in:
http://www.newstatesman.com/world-af...le-save-greece

neil-h

You forgot the doom mongerers who run around all day long telling anyone who'll listen about how ****ed we are and predicting the total collapse of the economy/civilisation.

jonc

The funny thing is he constantly bleats on about how the UK is screwed because it has no primary or secondary industry that it doesn't make, grow or manufacture anything and the economy is all based on nothing but "hot air". But he is so apoplectic about it that he forgets what his business does or indeed doesn't do. It also doesn't "make" anything, it's a PR company, that is it is effectively selling "hot air". He berates the very industry that his business is a part of, the service industry, selling nothing more than spin, and he has the audacity to tell us that we're the ones with our heads in the sand, you can't make it up!!! I do sympathise with some of the points he makes, but he generally does himself no favours..

neil-h

Shouldn't that be "taking hot air, boxing it up all pretty and selling it as cold air"?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Wow, you really are a patronising little **** aren't you? Where is it you work again... Oh yes... 'in the city' ..... you're basically part of the problem and I am being kind there.

OK for those of you who are not completely deluded here are some facts.

Forget about the deficit as that's just politicians and people like our little 'city friend' deliberately blurring the debate!

Debt is what you need to look at!

2010 - £811 billion
2015 - £1.6 trillion

That's a rise of 100pc in 5.5 years.

And yes it does matter!!! It must be serviced with regular interest payments, diverting money from other things such as public services.

Even at the low interest rates, the Government spends as much on debt interest annually as on defence. As the national debt escalates, courtesy of £100bn-plus annual deficits, and as interest rates inevitably rise, it’ll soon be spending more on government debt service than on state education.

With politicians insisting the deficit will soon be gone all seems rosy until we fall back into deficit the year after as Osborne is simply massaging figures.

If our debt continues to grow at anything like the current rate it won't be too long until we can't service it... maybe not 2 years but a decade or so! Put it this way if you have kids... sadly they're f**ked!!! My advice to them... emigrate!

Luckily I don't have any and won't be here anyway

I know you will all say it won't happen, but it will unless something drastically changes and that won't happen under the current political system!

Ah well ... it was sh1thole anyway!

Matteeboy

I know exactly what my business does - it helps sell things. It helps very well.
People have been doing "PR" since the invention of the free press.
Even in a World post collapse, PR will still be needed, if not more so.

However bent banking practises, overpaid civil servants, a broken NHS (people don't realise HOW broken it is - surprise surprise), a welfare system we can't afford, an insanely overblown housing market are all things we DON'T need.

Anyway, if it all went horribly pear shaped, we'd do something else. That's the beauty of running your own show and not being stuck in some rigid system, fed utter BS to try and keep you in line and make you feel clever.

We are all where we are largely because of luck - none of this BS about "working hard" - millions work far harder than any of us yet are in total poverty - lucky to be born in the UK, lucky to be born to good parents, lucky to get a decent education, lucky to get a few good breaks, lucky to meet the partners/wives we are with, lucky to have healthy kids. We are all VERY lucky. Those that then try and use that good hand they were dealt to try and elevate themselves above others really are life's losers.

And it's those that "think" they are somehow sharper, cleverer, harder working than the majority and have "earned" their current position and look down on others; they are the ones who are the most vulnerable. Life is going to bite them on the backside.