dpb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_GDP_(nominal)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ntries_by_area



Ninth largest , out of 50 odd

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Because a) the masses here are stupid, believe everything they see and hear in the media, b) the loud-mouthed left here, the do-gooders always shout loudest, and if you disagree you are racist or bigot, and c) we are all in it together.....except the rich, the bankers, the politicians, royalty, the SE and London.

Petem95

Area is not really relevant without taking population into account though.

Looking at population density, Holland and Belgium are the only 2 Western European countries with a higher population density than us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countries

Looking at external debt (i.e. the total owed to foreign creditors), the UK has by far the highest debt levels of any European country, and is the second most indebted country in the world, behind the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._external_debt

But hey what could go wrong, lets keep on living vastly beyond our means and just hope it shapes out ok..

wayne9t9

dpb

German density , isn't significantly different Petem95

Petem95

Yeah it doesn't look much lower, but when you do the sums and realise they would need an extra 9.6million people to get the same population density as the UK (256/sqkm) it starts sounding quite a bit less.. They could take the entire population of Syria twice over and they'd still have to find another 3/4million people to match our population density.

Either way that wouldn't really matter if all these people were productive and generating wealth for the country, but we're on about taking yet more people who will be a drain on the system. Just look again at the debt levels - we're living well beyond our means with a massive welfare state, pensions, free healthcare, public infrastructure etc etc - either we face up to reality and start to address that, or we reach a point where the government starts to struggle to refinance existing debt. Things will snowball quite quickly from then as borrowing costs for the government skyrocket as lenders realise the risk of actually getting a return, so all of a sudden hospitals can't afford to buy drugs, public sector workers aren't getting paid in full, pensions aren't being paid.

dpb

There was 22 million of them !, or do you mean the ones still alive ?

Martin2005

This is the UK in 20 years time if we don't do something to address the REAL issue of our demographics...

Too many pensioners and not enough people of working age!

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

it's not age that's the real issue martin, it's to few people in this country milking the system of to much money that they never spend, bankers mp's buisness leaders, etc, there will always be a massive problem with debt overspending etc in this country as the rich expect the poor to pay for everything,including all economic migrants and our own parasite's, commercial greed is the hidden problem, migrants and our own parasite's are just a media driven diversion, a more equal distribution of the countries wealth is the answer to the problem, sadly that will never happen because, because a) the masses here are stupid, believe everything they see and hear in the media, b) the loud-mouthed left here, the do-gooders always shout loudest, and if you disagree you are racist or bigot, and c) we are all in it together.....except the rich, the bankers, the politicians, royalty, the SE and London. has it occoured to you that it doesn't matter how many people we have here of working age, if the rich aren't going to pay them enough to pay TAX
__________________

dpb

You just copied and pasted alcazar speel. !

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

only the part that was suitable, the rest is what i think.has it occoured to you that it doesn't matter how many people we have here of working age, if the rich aren't going to pay them enough to pay TAX,
where did alcazar say that

Martin2005

No the ageing population is the real issue.

Everything else is just an opinion, spun to suit your argument

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Martin, whilst I partly agree with you that our ageing population is one of the countrie's problems, it won't be solved by bringing in immigrants who will end up as nett takers, nor by bringing in refugees that will not actually put ANYTHING into the country, but WILL take homes, school places, NHS money, benefits etc etc etc.

IF we had the jobs available and no-one to fill 'em, I could see your point, but we haven't.
Nor do we have excess school places, an inexhaustible NHS and homes available.

And all Cam Moron's posturing about using part of the aid budget here for homes is only a small part of the problem he is creating for us.

Further: IF they can suddenly afford to allow these immigrants in and allocate £x to each, how come our homeless and ex-servicemen and pensioners get little or nowt, despite having paid in themselves?

dpb

By immigrants mean asylum seekers ?

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

so you are quite happy for hundreds of thousands of people of working age to come here seeking job's that won't pay enough to pay tax,(or will they as most don't speak english) GOOD EFFORT, you must be earning enough to not care about our childrens future, distribution of wealth is the real problem this country faces in the future, as it is now there are loads of us getting more benefit's than wages, may i ask you who you think is going to be paying all the taxes needed to support all these economic migrants and our own economic dependant's ? and also do you have any fingerprint's left after all the hand wringing ? it's time to stop trying to solve the world's problem's and stop be being part of the problem's by poking our nose in other countries buisness purely for commercial greed reasons discuised as humanitarian reasons,

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

As per previous posters' replies, this asbolutely needn't be a concern, until or unless we reach a point where there's an actual shortage of able labour to do what needs to be done. Given the lengths that many would-be immigrants currently go to to get into the country, I think it's safe to say that if it did ever get to that point, that shortage of labour could be filled very quickly and easily by means a competitive or lot-drawn "green card" like system.

Martin2005

We have circa 800k unfilled vacancies right now.

Pensioners are one group that have done pretty well recently (even the ones who didn't pay into the system btw)

Martin2005

Let me turn that one around.

Who do you think is going to support our ageing population in the coming years and decades?

Also let me ask you what you think the answer to this terrible migration / poverty issue is. Ignoring it and doing nothing hasn't really been a winner thus far has it?

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

You're not turning a single thing around, you're just re-writing the same question in a slightly different way. My answer then is the same - we have thousands upon thousands of people already risking life, limb and/or lengthy terms of imprisonment to get into this country as things are. If and when it came to the point our economy was literally grinding to a halt because of a shortage of people, it's simply absurd to suggest we'd have any trouble finding enough candidates who'd jump at the chance to come over and make up the numbers in pretty short order.

I can tell you one thing for sure, the answer is most certainly not to invite large proportions of the additional 1 Billion people who are inhabiting our planet every 10 or 20 years to come and live in the UK or Europe! Or do you honestly think that is the answer?

JTaylor

Martin2005

No the answer is for us (and the rest of the rich world) to get serious about economic and structural development in the 3rd world, rather than playing at it, which is what we've done for decades.

The answer to your first point is already happening, and guess what, people whinge and whine about it.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

are you a mp by any chance ? answering 2 questions with another question. if and it's a bloody big if the rich and wealthy in this country started paying our own people a proper living wage, there would be more than enough of our own people paying tax to care for our own elderly, there's another question for you what about all the economic migrant's that are nOt far from retirement age,WHO IS GONNA PAY FOR THEM,

Martin2005

Most are young so that's not really an issue

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

quality reply i take it you haven't seen the media mistakes where they showed old romanian gypsies by mistake, oh and you still haven't answered the questions, i will make a £10.00 bet with you now that this country is a sess pit within 5 years, and those standing on the lid won't give a **** about the likes of you and me . another question for you which may be a bit hard to answer, NAME ME 5 JOBS YOU CAN DO IN THIS COUNTRY EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH, apart from any job connected to immigration, oh and one last thing did you see the photo of one standing with a photo of angela merk with we love you written on it, just remember all these people will be allowed to VOTE , oh i can see it now oh we love you david where do we put the X

Martin2005

What question haven't I answered? It's sometimes difficult to translate your posts into English (oh the irony)

c_maguire

Not enough skilled people of working age.

Not a bunch of losers sorting cabbages in a field in Lincs or dishwashing at The Dorchester.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I wasn't aware that the third world was ours to organize and manage, and on that basis, I struggle to see how our role in how well or badly its economy or structure develops could ever be more than peripheral.

Firstly, it's somewhat debatable whether this is really what's happening. Secondly, even if it is, as with many things it's as much the manner in which it's happening that leads to whinging and whining as the simple fact of it. The main emphasis on that second point being the free-for-all nature of recent immigration, and the fact that to many it would seem the population influx has preceded or pre-empted demand, rather than the other way around.

c_maguire

Against how many registered unemployed here already?

And what percentage of this 800K can genuinely be classed as full-time vacancies requiring qualified applicants.

This country may well benefit from migrants with appropriate skills but doesn't need more grunts of any kind, wherever they come from.

dpb

Asylum seekers can't vote, but then you knew that

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

they can when they get given a eu passport