Scotland - what now?
10 May 2015, 10:24 PM
#61
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10 May 2015, 11:49 PM
#62
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If you don't have any evidence you have no evidence.
I voted in the Scottish independence referendum so it does concern me but as you have nothing I won't worry about it.
Anyway, I'm sure if anything is or was amiss wee Fiona will get it sorted out.
I voted in the Scottish independence referendum so it does concern me but as you have nothing I won't worry about it.
Anyway, I'm sure if anything is or was amiss wee Fiona will get it sorted out.
11 May 2015, 10:25 AM
#65
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11 May 2015, 10:47 AM
#66
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I do have a feeling that it's one thing for them to show their distain for the English politicians much like the English do in By-elections, but it's a different kettle of fish when it comes to voting out of the Union whether the be UK or Europe.
In my eyes they have a very vocal minority with many sympathisers that will nod and agree with the Nationalist sentiments, but when it comes to putting a X in the out box they lack confidence in their Politicians / Scotlands ability to stand alone on the world stage, which I think is a point of view that has merit.
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
11 May 2015, 10:53 AM
#67
Who are you ranting at? Not the Scots I hope? You can blame Blair, Miliband and Cameron for the situation, no one else. Cameron was a blind fool over the referendum and nearly didn't realise what was happening until it was too late. Miliband should have stayed neutral, but like an idiot sided with Camo and killed his party in Scotland and probably in England too in the long run! Salmond out manoeuvred everyone and is a very astute politician, Sturgeon seems to be as good if not better! Well played to them
11 May 2015, 11:04 AM
#68
Ditchy
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
11 May 2015, 11:35 AM
#69
Ditchy
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
You obviously live there so it affects you directly, I didn't like what was happening in England so I voted with my feet and left, which is an option that's open to all of us.
I merely offered an opinion based on recent happenings from what little I have seen, how many got off their ***** and voted for what ever matters not, it's the end result on the day that counts.
There was a lot of talk before the referendum and everyone got the impression that it was going to be a landslide yes vote, yet on the day it was a lot closer and indeed the majority voted to stay so ultimately the vocal ones were in fact the Minority.
And yeah I do need to go for an eye test but not had time recently, maybe we can go together.
11 May 2015, 11:51 AM
#70
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But 55% voted No and of the 50% who voted SNP in the election I would say a fair number where tactical votes to punish Labour. Many of the electorate saw Miliband as backstabbing and untrustworthy whose campaign concentrated on the support for the poor and attacking the rich and completely ignoring the vast swathes of the already squeezed middle.
Perhaps in England they saw Milliband that way. Scottish Labour has its own leader, however, and he was the one campaigning in Scotland. THe Scots saw Milliband as an idiot. And Jim Murphy as a sanctimonious idiot. Two people who couldn't run a **** up in a brewery, let alone the UK. Jim Murphy's last bit of campaigning was a practically unattended appearance in Glasgow city Centre with Eddie Izzard in a dress and more labour press/hired hands than supporters. What the actual F*ck....?
The tactical voting in Scotland was more likely (and to my direct knowledge) to be tory voters voting for who they felt was the strongest opposition to the SNP candidate due to their fear of a split form the union.
As Dunk said on another thread, SNP support has grown exponentially since he referendum with Scots voters acknowledging that the SNP represented Scotland's best interests.
The SNP has over 115,000 members in Scotland, thats basically one in every 50 people. The figure immediately pre referendum was approximately 25,000.
By comparison, Scottish Labour has approximately 15,000.
Labour were not being punished in Scotland. They had already lost Scotland's confidence.
11 May 2015, 01:07 PM
#74
Ditchy
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
In the referendum, 45% of those voting chose to vote yes. That was 1,617,989 votes. 45% is hardly a vocal minority.
In the election 50% of those voting chose to vote SNP. That was 1,454,436 votes.
More people voted yes in the referendum that voted for SNP in the general election.
You may want to get your eyes tested
11 May 2015, 01:39 PM
#75
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Devildog, this is a serious and respectful question that I really want to know what you think, and forgive me if I am assuming your voting intentions.
Do you think the SNP will find the money to end austerity without getting us into more debt and/or taxes? I'm worried that their policies through increased devolved powers will result in a brain drain and am considering moving to England as a result.
Do you think the SNP will find the money to end austerity without getting us into more debt and/or taxes? I'm worried that their policies through increased devolved powers will result in a brain drain and am considering moving to England as a result.
11 May 2015, 02:28 PM
#76
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Let's not let maths get in the way of your stupidity
11 May 2015, 02:44 PM
#77
Let's not let maths get in the way of your stupidity
11 May 2015, 02:49 PM
#79
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The clue is the 2.7% figure in my post! FFS I really wonder how ****s like you remember to keep breathing!
Last edited by f1_fan; 11 May 2015 at 02:51 PM.
11 May 2015, 03:05 PM
#80
Scooby Regular
(And certainly more relevant than what Ditchy is picking up 2nd hand via the media)
Last edited by Devildog; 11 May 2015 at 03:06 PM.
11 May 2015, 03:13 PM
#81
Statistically 2 out of three of those 17 year olds will have been eligible to vote in the General Election, so not as irrelevant as somone living in Warwickshire, with no real clue of the day to day position in Scotland, might think
(And certainly more relevant than what Ditchy is picking up 2nd hand via the media)
(And certainly more relevant than what Ditchy is picking up 2nd hand via the media)
I suspect that we're all in the same position and no one will really know if Scotland will be able to stand on it's own two feet until they get independence, which I don't think is going to happen anytime soon if at all.
I presume you want independence?
11 May 2015, 03:52 PM
#82
Scooby Regular
Devildog, this is a serious and respectful question that I really want to know what you think, and forgive me if I am assuming your voting intentions.
Do you think the SNP will find the money to end austerity without getting us into more debt and/or taxes? I'm worried that their policies through increased devolved powers will result in a brain drain and am considering moving to England as a result.
Do you think the SNP will find the money to end austerity without getting us into more debt and/or taxes? I'm worried that their policies through increased devolved powers will result in a brain drain and am considering moving to England as a result.
I'm on record as saying I voted SNP in the General Election, as a Scot, living and working in Scotland.
And I did so because I believe that in a United Kingdom, Scotland's best interests will be served by a political party that will not just roll over and do what head office tells them to do. Scotland, as do Wales and Northern Ireland, needs appropriate representation.
We may be geographically smaller and have a much lower population, however Scotland's gross value added per person (excluding oil revenues) is over £1,000 higher than than the UK average and would be significantly higher than that of England and the rest of the UK when those revenues are included.
Which, incidentally, is why I get so pissed off when English people moan about the Barnett formula being unfair to them. Farage especially.
Scottish Labour and the Scottish Conservatives are merely branch offices of the larger parties, and the lib dems have, sadly, lost what credibility they had.
Going back to the crux of your question, where the SNP find the money to end austerity (if indeed real austerity exists) will very much depend upon what further powers are devolved by Westminster. Scotland already has a parliament with an SNP majority and has done so since the last Scottish parlimentary elections (as you know, but stated for the benefit of anyone reading this who doesn't)
If further devolved powers are given, and the SNP get it wrong, they won't hold on to Holyrood for long. If David Cameron thinks Scotland can't go it alone in that sense, he'd be smart to push through greater devolved powers well before the Scottish Electons next year. Call Nicola Sturgeon's bluff, so to speak. if she gets it wrong she's out of a job and that puts paid to any more independence chat.
For my own part, yes, I think the SNP will find the money. I think they already know where it is (or where it will come from), and I think that they are significantly more astute than any of the other parties (publicly) give them credit for. Might we see nominally higher personal tax rates for higher earners? quite possibly. Is that a proce I'm prepared to pay for a better Scotland? Absolutely.
And if they f*ck it all up? Then we're off to live and work in Grand Cayman. Because we're not staying for the weather.
These are simply my own personal views. Whether they are ultimately found to be right or wrong, only time will tell.
Last edited by Devildog; 11 May 2015 at 03:59 PM.
11 May 2015, 03:55 PM
#83
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No one knows for certain whats going to happen. My second hand reference was in response to your seeing a few nationalists shouting very loudly, which is patently not the position.
I've made no secret of being pro independence. I'd rather be governed by smart people in potentially difficult times than idiots in the status quo.
11 May 2015, 04:16 PM
#84
And you really believe that the Surgeon and the Salmon(d) are those people???
"The Scottish Lion has roared!"
I bet most Jocks thought, "Aye...right".
And as for "We now have 56 seats in Westmister....the Scottish voice will be heard, the rest of the UK must listen", does the daft bint not understand the mechanics of a Tory majority?
"The Scottish Lion has roared!"
I bet most Jocks thought, "Aye...right".
And as for "We now have 56 seats in Westmister....the Scottish voice will be heard, the rest of the UK must listen", does the daft bint not understand the mechanics of a Tory majority?
11 May 2015, 04:35 PM
#85
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And you really believe that the Surgeon and the Salmon(d) are those people???
"The Scottish Lion has roared!"
I bet most Jocks thought, "Aye...right".
And as for "We now have 56 seats in Westmister....the Scottish voice will be heard, the rest of the UK must listen", does the daft bint not understand the mechanics of a Tory majority?
"The Scottish Lion has roared!"
I bet most Jocks thought, "Aye...right".
And as for "We now have 56 seats in Westmister....the Scottish voice will be heard, the rest of the UK must listen", does the daft bint not understand the mechanics of a Tory majority?
Salmond has alway liked his theatrics Jeff. And the "daft bint", as you so eloquently put it fully understands the mechanics.
Cameron will have to listen. Of course he can steamroller what he wants (assuming back bench support) but does he really want to alienate Scotland to that degree?
11 May 2015, 06:05 PM
#87
Will be interesting to see if Cameron's EU in/out referendum will trigger another Scottish Independence referendum; rUK supposedly want out whilst the Scots want to remain. Maybe the electorate will save Cameron from himself and the UK also votes to stay in. Jean-Claude Juncker has already promised to work with Cameron in "striking a fair deal" for the UK in Cameron's renegotiation on the back of his election victory. But then again Brussels plans to force the UK to accept tens of thousands migrants from the Med.
11 May 2015, 06:42 PM
#88
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Will be interesting to see if Cameron's EU in/out referendum will trigger another Scottish Independence referendum; rUK supposedly want out whilst the Scots want to remain. Maybe the electorate will save Cameron from himself and the UK also votes to stay in. Jean-Claude Juncker has already promised to work with Cameron in "striking a fair deal" for the UK in Cameron's renegotiation on the back of his election victory. But then again Brussels plans to force the UK to accept tens of thousands migrants from the Med.