So what did you make of the budget?
19 March 2015, 11:54 PM
#32
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Well I wouldn't have to if it wasn't trotted out by the vacuous every time the truth about Cameron's government is pointed out. It's an irrelevance whether it would be worse under Labour as a) they have not been in power for the last 5 years, the Tories have and b) even if it were true so what? That just means we shouldn't elect either of them, the last time I looked it wasn't just a vote between the two with a gun to your head forcing you to vote for one or the other 
20 March 2015, 12:22 AM
#33
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Well I wouldn't have to if it wasn't trotted out by the vacuous every time the truth about Cameron's government is pointed out. It's an irrelevance whether it would be worse under Labour as a) they have not been in power for the last 5 years, the Tories have and b) even if it were true so what? That just means we shouldn't elect either of them, the last time I looked it wasn't just a vote between the two with a gun to your head forcing you to vote for one or the other
20 March 2015, 12:41 AM
#34
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The solution to the country's debt problem is not palatable to the electorate so no party is ever going to do what needs to be done. On the other hand it's obvious to most people that an ever increasing debt already at 1.6 trillion is not going to be sustainable forever (despite what the politicians and the economists - the ones that failed to predict the credit crunch, will tell you) and in real terms neither the Tories have nor Labour would have done anything significant about it in the last 5 years.
So yes there is a solution, but no party will ever implement it. That does not, however, make Osborne's deception right.
So yes there is a solution, but no party will ever implement it. That does not, however, make Osborne's deception right.
20 March 2015, 12:43 AM
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The solution to the country's debt problem is not palatable to the electorate so no party is ever going to do what needs to be done. On the other hand it's obvious to most people that an ever increasing debt already at 1.6 trillion is not going to be sustainable forever (despite what the politicians and the economists - the ones that failed to predict the credit crunch, will tell you) and in real terms neither the Tories have nor Labour would have done anything significant about it in the last 5 years.
So yes there is a solution, but no party will ever implement it. That does not, however, make Osborne's deception right.
So yes there is a solution, but no party will ever implement it. That does not, however, make Osborne's deception right.
20 March 2015, 12:51 AM
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Martin, we have had this discussion at least 3 times on here and you definitely posted in at least 2 of those discussions.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
20 March 2015, 12:55 AM
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Martin, we have had this discussion at least 3 times on here and you definitely posted in at least 2 of those discussions.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
20 March 2015, 01:00 AM
#38
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Why? But anyway that's irrelevant. You asked what the solution was, not whether I liked it.
From my perspective it's less of an issue as a) I am off and b) even if I wasn't I have no kids so don't really have to give a **** what happens to the UK in the long term. I used to, but there's a growing part of me that feels it's kind of getting what a lot of of its inhabitants deserve these days. Karma I guess!
From my perspective it's less of an issue as a) I am off and b) even if I wasn't I have no kids so don't really have to give a **** what happens to the UK in the long term. I used to, but there's a growing part of me that feels it's kind of getting what a lot of of its inhabitants deserve these days. Karma I guess!
20 March 2015, 01:03 AM
#39
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Why? But anyway that's irrelevant. You asked what the solution was, not whether I liked it.
From my perspective it's less of an issue as a) I am off and b) even if I wasn't I have no kids so don't really have to give a **** what happens to the UK in the long term. I used to, but there's a growing part of me that feels it's kind of getting what a lot of of its inhabitants deserve these days. Karma I guess!
From my perspective it's less of an issue as a) I am off and b) even if I wasn't I have no kids so don't really have to give a **** what happens to the UK in the long term. I used to, but there's a growing part of me that feels it's kind of getting what a lot of of its inhabitants deserve these days. Karma I guess!
20 March 2015, 02:51 AM
#43
Martin, we have had this discussion at least 3 times on here and you definitely posted in at least 2 of those discussions.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
Massive cuts, means testing of pensions, military downscaling, work for benefits, radical overhaul of NHS, means testing education tax increases etc. etc.
You were the first to complain that the Government cut too much too fast no so long ago!! The Goverment have already done/are doing some of what you said, like downscaling the military and introduce a work for benefits and the Tories have increased 24 taxes according to Labour for example.
How would you means test pensions? test against what? Could you elaborate? And means testing education? Again, could you elaborate? I believe every child in the UK should have a right to education.
20 March 2015, 03:29 AM
#44
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You were the first to complain that the Government cut too much too fast no so long ago!! The Goverment have already done/are doing some of what you said, like downscaling the military and introduce a work for benefits and the Tories have increased 24 taxes according to Labour for example.
How would you means test pensions? test against what? Could you elaborate? And means testing education? Again, could you elaborate? I believe every child in the UK should have a right to education.
How would you means test pensions? test against what? Could you elaborate? And means testing education? Again, could you elaborate? I believe every child in the UK should have a right to education.
2) that was 5 years ago and we are now a lot further up **** creek.. yes you can argue there appears to be some sort of recovery in the south at any rate, but the debt has grown massively in that time too.
3) What the solution is and whether I like the solution are two different things as was stated above ... you obviously didn't read that because you would never just trot something out that had already been discussed just to score a point would you?
I don't see what your confusion with means testing is? If you have enough money that you can pay for your kids' education you should pay for it or you don't need a state pension then you shouldn't get one.
Don't get all indignant with me about that as:
1) it's part of a solution and not necessarily what I would like to see
2) believing in a right to something is all very honourable and all that, but eventually when the country can't afford it it won't do anyone much good.
I really do think an awful lot of people, some of whom are quite intelligent, are in denial about the future. It's quite weird in some ways!
Last edited by f1_fan; 20 March 2015 at 03:30 AM.
20 March 2015, 04:48 AM
#45
1) My argument was based on what they said they were going to do, but they didn't do it of course (they have told us they have done it, but their own figures show us they haven't)
2) that was 5 years ago and we are now a lot further up **** creek.. yes you can argue there appears to be some sort of recovery in the south at any rate, but the debt has grown massively in that time too.
3) What the solution is and whether I like the solution are two different things as was stated above ... you obviously didn't read that because you would never just trot something out that had already been discussed just to score a point would you?
I don't see what your confusion with means testing is? If you have enough money that you can pay for your kids' education you should pay for it or you don't need a state pension then you shouldn't get one.
Don't get all indignant with me about that as:
1) it's part of a solution and not necessarily what I would like to see
2) believing in a right to something is all very honourable and all that, but eventually when the country can't afford it it won't do anyone much good.
I really do think an awful lot of people, some of whom are quite intelligent, are in denial about the future. It's quite weird in some ways!
2) that was 5 years ago and we are now a lot further up **** creek.. yes you can argue there appears to be some sort of recovery in the south at any rate, but the debt has grown massively in that time too.
3) What the solution is and whether I like the solution are two different things as was stated above ... you obviously didn't read that because you would never just trot something out that had already been discussed just to score a point would you?
I don't see what your confusion with means testing is? If you have enough money that you can pay for your kids' education you should pay for it or you don't need a state pension then you shouldn't get one.
Don't get all indignant with me about that as:
1) it's part of a solution and not necessarily what I would like to see
2) believing in a right to something is all very honourable and all that, but eventually when the country can't afford it it won't do anyone much good.
I really do think an awful lot of people, some of whom are quite intelligent, are in denial about the future. It's quite weird in some ways!
Last edited by jonc; 20 March 2015 at 04:53 AM.
20 March 2015, 04:58 AM
#47
20 March 2015, 04:59 AM
#48
Well my excuse is it's mating season and my dog has been going crazy for the past few nights barking at anything from wild bore to deer and hares, I would bring him in but I'd still not get any sleep from the smell of him. What's your excuse ********?
Oh and I'm an hour in front so not quite so sad as you lot.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 20 March 2015 at 05:01 AM.
20 March 2015, 05:06 AM
#49
I fell asleep on the sofa watching Everton getting thrashed. Woke up at 9.30 and was knackered so went to bed.
Woke up 4 hours later and can't get back to sleep - feel fully awake ('cause I normally go to bed about 2am, see
)Might just have to have another cuppa followed by the obligatory w**k.........
Last edited by joz8968; 20 March 2015 at 05:07 AM.
20 March 2015, 10:19 AM
#50
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Well I did try to discuss with you with regards to some of the "solutions" you suggested in the past but let's just say that discussion was less than forthcoming when asked about the cost of setting up, the method to use, the administration of and the time required to bring it in. How would you means test to decide how a child's education be state or privately funded? Based on income of individual parents, overall household income? How much does a child's education cost? How is this cost to be collected? If a parent can't/won't pay, what are the repercussions? We already have parents who pay for their children to be privately educated and the cost is well out of reach for the majority middle squeezed. Many on here like to deride those who are privately educated, you want more of this? I know you don't have kids, but even you should be able to see who would suffer the most for this "solution".
Anyway aside from this are you advocating the country will be fine if it carries on as it is? If so we have zero common ground anyway!
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