JTaylor

Yes, did all that and it does help.

How's your relationship with Islam nowadays? I know you've struggled with your faith. Do you still consider yourself to be a Muslim?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Difficult and yes I'll always consider myself muslim, I'm brown and of Pakistani origin.
Where I perhaps differ from other Muslims is I always consider the right and wrong rather than blindly following the religion. Texts are open to interpretation and people with hidden agendas attempt to influence 'sheeple'. My motto is live and let live and when in Rome...

hodgy0_2

why do religious people need to frame things in terms of "enemies" in the first place

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It gives them power. It's akin to any other group activity. Division gives greater control.

JTaylor

So would you say being a Muslim is as much about ethnicity as it is about faith?

JTaylor

I use the word "enemy" because Christ used it in Matthew 5:43-44 where He spoke these words: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." It was these verses that inspired the likes of Gandhi and Martin Luther King to embark on a policy of passive resistance. I'm still trying to get the hang of it.

hodgy0_2

yes, language is so important, it is the gateway to the mind

and this sort of language is used to perpetuate power, control and privilege

things look so much clearer when not seen through the blinkers of religion

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Nope definitely not. However I answer that question based on my own lineage and upbringing. Some would consider me a non muslim but generally I don't give much credence to other people's opinions if I consider I'm doing the right thing as a human being.

JTaylor

Do you accept the declaration in the shahada? I'd say that's the acid test as to whether one is or is not a Muslim. Doing "the right thing as a human being" is besides the point. There are innumerable atheists who are pukka human beings.

Turbohot

Yes, they shouldn't.

But do you think that summons for the 'first place' person's very personal anguish to be broadcast publicly; in order to win an argument? I don't think the good-hearted people (religious or not) would do that; the ones sitting in the 'second place'.

Also, when someone is trying to highlight a valid point by pulling up old threads, why is this person being labelled as a lithium consuming mentalist? Good-hearted and non-blinkered people won't do that, would they? They would understand his question he posits, and answer it in the most reasonable way. Even of he doesn't understand, good-hearted people won't call him names of all sorts under the sun and blame his unresolved issues with his deceased father on a public forum. No need.

Poor, very poor show.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I accept what I consider to be right, I ain't subservient to any text. You pigeon hole me as you see fit.

hodgy0_2

just fancy words for **** stirring

JTaylor

Do you consider the shahada to be right?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

That's obviously aimed at me so I'll respond. I call it as I see it, no Molly coddling no ***** footing. You don't like it fine that's your call. Given the context of what's being discussed and the narrative, I'll make whatever reference I consider relevant.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

What does the shahada say?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

That's how I saw it Hodgy.

Turbohot

Nevertheless.

JTaylor

لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muḥammadun rasūlu-llāh

There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I'm undecided.

JTaylor

An agnostic Muslim?

neil-h

Are we absolutely sure JTaylor isn't TdW's born again alter ego? Just it's starting to look rather suspect.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Absolutely sure beyond any doubt.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Can you be one?

JTaylor

It rather begs the question, doesn't it? You claim to be a Muslim, but by your own admission you're not committed to the first pillar of Islam, nor are you a theist or even ethnically Muslim. Quite puzzling.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Perhaps I don't care for your attempt at pigeon holing. Why must I be one or the other? Why can't I choose to live my life as I see fit instead of subscribing to particular school of thought?
I don't blindly follow texts or instructions from allegedly more knowledgeable people. I have a brain, it gives me clear and succinct distinction between right and wrong. I base my actions on that reasoning first and foremost then I'll consider other factors. If that makes me a pseud so be it.
Furthermore I'm not looking for inner enlightenment or peace. People use religion to attain this, it should already be there. Why should I refer to a book to realise it's wrong to hate or lie. My moral compass is set by my brain not a book (or a revised book).

JTaylor

That's all fine, but in what sense are you a Muslim?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

You tell me.

Shaid

Maz, ask him if he eats pork? If he does then tell him he is not allowed. Then watch the excuses come out.

JTaylor

You want me to tell you in what sense you're a Muslim, Maz? Well you're not, according to your own measure, either spiritually or ethnically Muslim, so I can only assume that you have some vague, almost ineffable loyalty to Islam that perhaps stems from that innate, mammalian tribalism that resides somewhere deep in all of our subconsciouses. A nagging loyalty. Somehow, you can't quite backslide far enough to snip the thread that's interwoven with the double helix of your DNA. Is it that that final, brave leap of faith made by the apostate is one that your constitution simply won't allow you to make? Fear? These things plus simple socialisation and cultural responsibility, perhaps? I dunno, you tell me.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I don't think we need to pick holes in people's faith. If it's a faith that bares no harm on others then realistically it is nobody elses business.